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Your Opinions 5: Is GRRM a "bad writer?"


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1 hour ago, sifth said:

I sort of wish GRRM would have the balls to actually commit on killing Jon, but the longer he doesn't produce this book, I think the odds of that happening are becoming more and more slim.

I don't think Jon being killed off was ever in the cards, though. Even back in 2011 very few people believed that he would stay dead, especially with the ADWD prologue in mind. 

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48 minutes ago, sifth said:

Does he? Because he's seems to have changed a lot of stuff, especially when compared to his original story, where Jamie was suppose to remain a villain,

That was some ... creative stuff he tossed out because it was required by the publishers to bid on it, but he's always said that that was not really his plan. It's absolutely true that his initial plan was very loose. He knew the ending from early on, he had some major things planned, but early on in ACoK he decided to structure out the books, and that's the outline he's been largely working towards.

48 minutes ago, sifth said:

Heck even the abandoned 5 year time skip has surely had some change on the end point as well.

On the endpoint? Not really. It's complicated some of the open areas of the story, however. As he said, part of why he dropped the gap was that he realized that his original plans shortchanged certain parts of the story where it didn't make sense to do so.

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3 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I don't think Jon being killed off was ever in the cards, though. Even back in 2011 very few people believed that he would stay dead, especially with the ADWD prologue in mind. 

Yes, I've never believed that's the end of Jon's story, which would basically be a waste of time, if so.  It would be as if Dany were killed by the Dothraki in her next chapter.

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1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Even in the cases where he does plan something, he can change his mind anytime. We know from the 1993 pitch letter that Jaime was supposed to become king, and there is some foreshadowing for it in AGoT. But then he decided to go in a different direction with Jaime, so that foreshadowing didn't amount to anything.

What about his spiel about if you allude to the Butler being the killer, you can't change that. 

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41 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

What about his spiel about if you allude to the Butler being the killer, you can't change that. 

He doesn't always practice what he preaches. In 2006 he did a podcast where he gave advice to aspiring writers. Long story short, he has himself broken almost every rule he claims professional writers must follow.

Edit: Found it, it's quite hilarious in hindsight.

 

Edited by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy
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2 hours ago, sifth said:

know Davos says something very brief, when he talks to Dany, but aside from that, it's pretty much forgotten and Jon's just Jon again, only he's apparently allowed to leave The Wall and just abandons all of his friends there.

The two times his ressurection was of use in the plot was the one you mentioned, and when he was left behind the Wall. Not only because he may have survived because he may not have been alive the same way others are (bc of the ressurection), but also to shock Daenerys when she sees his scars on his body (to make her fall in love with him?).

Also, his most recent promise was that if by July 31 of 2020 he doesn't have the final version of TWOW in his hands, he allows the fans to lock him up alone in the middle of nowhere until he finishes. There was, I think, some kind of con on that date, and when the date came, he said that, well, since because of COVID the event wasn't happening, he can't deliver us the book, not that he could do it anyway.

But to be fair, I think he may have like three quarters of the book written. Not that that means anything, he could get stuck anytime.

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1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Yes, I've never believed that's the end of Jon's story, which would basically be a waste of time, if so.  It would be as if Dany were killed by the Dothraki in her next chapter.

It would be like GRRM to just kill off Dany like that though.

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59 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

He doesn't always practice what he preaches. In 2006 he did a podcast where he gave advice to aspiring writers. Long story short, he has himself broken almost every rule he claims professional writers must follow.

Edit: Found it, it's quite hilarious in hindsight.

 

“Don’t fiddle around with your story”. 
 

lol

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22 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It would make her story a complete waste of time.  She has to get to Westeros at some point.

Tell that to Quentyn. Now that's a waste of time and it didn't have to be.

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57 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

It would be like GRRM to just kill off Dany like that though.

Like every other story, ASOIAF has plot armors as well. It is the genius of George that makes us not recognize it. 

But it's fair to say Daenerys will make it to Westeros and Jon will be ressurected. I don't think these are aspects George can our would want to throw away.

Edited by Daeron the Daring
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1 minute ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Like every other story, ASOIAF has plot armors as well. It is the genius of George that makes us not recognize it. 

But it's fair to say Daenerys will make it to Westeros and Jon will be ressurected. I don't think these are aspects George can our would want to throw away.

Well hey, just look at Ramsay.

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4 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Explain.

The fact that he basically ripped the North apart in a matter of weeks with a plan he pulled out of his ass, and has apparently beaten Stannis (until TWOW is published, if TWOW gets published). The fact that he's still alive due to all the stuff he's done speaks to a large amount of plot armor (though not quite at show!Ramsay levels). You'd expect him to have faced the consequences for that, but no.

Let's see the two big ones:

  • Somehow taking out Lady Hornwood's guard singlehandedly (or Lady Hornwood being stupid enough to travel alone), forcing him to marry her, and then receiving her title as Lord of the Hornwood
  • Massacring the force relieving Winterfell despite being outnumbered 3-1 and losing only 30 men tops, then sacking Winterfell
  • Plus the fact that he, probably the most untrustworthy known bastard in the last several decades (outside of Joffrey), gets legitimized while other, more sympathetic bastards don't (Mya, Gendry, Edric, Jon) have to stay in line, is a big example of life isn't fair. He's just climbed because... well, plot.

 

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1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

The fact that he basically ripped the North apart in a matter of weeks with a plan he pulled out of his ass, and has apparently beaten Stannis (until TWOW is published, if TWOW gets published). The fact that he's still alive due to all the stuff he's done speaks to a large amount of plot armor (though not quite at show!Ramsay levels). You'd expect him to have faced the consequences for that, but no.

Let's see the two big ones:

  • Somehow taking out Lady Hornwood's guard singlehandedly (or Lady Hornwood being stupid enough to travel alone), forcing him to marry her, and then receiving her title as Lord of the Hornwood
  • Massacring the force relieving Winterfell despite being outnumbered 3-1 and losing only 30 men tops, then sacking Winterfell
  • Plus the fact that he, probably the most untrustworthy known bastard in the last several decades (outside of Joffrey), gets legitimized while other, more sympathetic bastards don't (Mya, Gendry, Edric, Jon) have to stay in line, is a big example of life isn't fair. He's just climbed because... well, plot.

 

I expect that Ramsay’s end will be …somewhat uncomfortable.

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