[Spoilers] Episode 110 Discussion

[BlackLightning]

On 11/17/2022 at 12:37 PM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

As someone else pointed out, couldn't Rhaenyra have offered Joffrey, Aegon, or Viserys as marriage partners for Borros Baratheon's daughters?

Borros Baratheon's daughters were all young women in their late teens. Joffrey, Aegon and Viserys - at that point - were all under the age of 12.

Maybe you could've squeezed an arrangement between Joffrey and the youngest Baratheon girl. But the boys were far too young to be considered good matches for nubile maidens such as them.

Don't forget the childbearing clock; it was a lot more imperative that the childbearing clock be abided by back in those days. A woman of 40 giving birth is in terrible danger compared to another woman who is giving birth at age 24.

On 11/19/2022 at 4:52 PM, butterweedstrover said:

I think Aegon was meant to come off as a lovable loser, who also is a sexual pervert. 

They did something similar with Daemon, make him a monster but hope people saw the fun loving side to him. 

But for some reason people ignore Daemon's bad stuff but they can't do the same for Aegon. Why is that?

Because our culture (or at least, American culture) pathologically despises any form of sexual perversion, especially when it comes to rapists.

On 11/23/2022 at 12:43 PM, butterweedstrover said:

Anyways, its the show's fault for making Rhea's murder have absolutely no affect on the story or characters. I mean yeah, he is still awful for doing it, but it is awfulness framed like a big joke, especially when seeing his swagger on return to the red keep and the nonchalant way he dismisses the accusation. 

Exactly

It's yet another reason why there should've been an episode placed in between "We Light the Way" and "The Princess and the Queen." We needed an episode dedicated to the Royce family accusing Daemon of murdering his wife...who actually was one of the more powerful women in the realm.

It is a big deal.

 

[Lord Varys]

16 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Borros Baratheon's daughters were all young women in their late teens. Joffrey, Aegon and Viserys - at that point - were all under the age of 12.

Maybe you could've squeezed an arrangement between Joffrey and the youngest Baratheon girl. But the boys were far too young to be considered good matches for nubile maidens such as them.

Don't forget the childbearing clock; it was a lot more imperative that the childbearing clock be abided by back in those days. A woman of 40 giving birth is in terrible danger compared to another woman who is giving birth at age 24.

I suggested this, as part of Rhaenyra/Daemon ensuring that the Baratheons stayed in their camp prior to the Dance. Rhaenyra has five sons, yet she only made betrothals for her two eldest sons. And, of course, the Four Storms cannot all be in their late teens. It would be pretty tough for Elenda to have given birth to four children in only four years, so we can tentatively assume that the youngest daughter would be about Joff's age, or only 1-2 years older.

The weird thing is that she made no intention to apparently cultivate good relations with various great houses by means of taking highborn boys as pages, squires, and ward or add highborn women to her ladies. Even if a match between Joffrey and one of the Four Storms may have been difficult to make

16 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

It's yet another reason why there should've been an episode placed in between "We Light the Way" and "The Princess and the Queen." We needed an episode dedicated to the Royce family accusing Daemon of murdering his wife...who actually was one of the more powerful women in the realm.

The bigger issue I have with Rhea's death is that Royce guy suspecting Daemon to have murdered his wife is also not really properly established. Since nothing indicates anyone knew Daemon was in the Vale, it is pretty strange that folks would suspect him.

The entire scene should have been better written, better directed, and better set up. We should understand Daemon's motivation better, we should know that people knew he was with Rhea again, and we should see how this accusation actually plays out.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

22 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Borros Baratheon's daughters were all young women in their late teens. Joffrey, Aegon and Viserys - at that point - were all under the age of 12.

Lucrerys was quite young as well, though?

[The Bard of Banefort]

I wonder if the show is going to spread the war out to span several years? Aegon needs to be old enough to at least understand what’s happening when Rhaenyra is killed, and right now he’s a toddler.

[BlackLightning]

On 11/17/2022 at 12:37 PM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

As someone else pointed out, couldn't Rhaenyra have offered Joffrey, Aegon, or Viserys as marriage partners for Borros Baratheon's daughters?

Borros Baratheon's daughters were all young women in their late teens. Joffrey, Aegon and Viserys - at that point - were all under the age of 12.

Maybe you could've squeezed an arrangement between Joffrey and the youngest Baratheon girl. But the boys were far too young to be considered good matches for nubile maidens such as them.

Don't forget the childbearing clock; it was a lot more imperative that the childbearing clock be abided by back in those days. A woman of 40 giving birth is in terrible danger compared to another woman who is giving birth at age 24.

On 11/19/2022 at 4:52 PM, butterweedstrover said:

I think Aegon was meant to come off as a lovable loser, who also is a sexual pervert. 

They did something similar with Daemon, make him a monster but hope people saw the fun loving side to him. 

But for some reason people ignore Daemon's bad stuff but they can't do the same for Aegon. Why is that?

Because our culture (or at least, American culture) pathologically despises any form of sexual perversion, especially when it comes to rapists.

On 11/23/2022 at 12:43 PM, butterweedstrover said:

Anyways, its the show's fault for making Rhea's murder have absolutely no affect on the story or characters. I mean yeah, he is still awful for doing it, but it is awfulness framed like a big joke, especially when seeing his swagger on return to the red keep and the nonchalant way he dismisses the accusation. 

Exactly

It's yet another reason why there should've been an episode placed in between "We Light the Way" and "The Princess and the Queen." We needed an episode dedicated to the Royce family accusing Daemon of murdering his wife...who actually was one of the more powerful women in the realm.

It is a big deal.

[The Bard of Banefort]

In the books, has any nobleman other than Maegor killed or been accused of killing his wife? Even all-around asshole Fireball didn’t murder his wife when he decided to get rid of her.

[butterweedstrover]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

In the books, has any nobleman other than Maegor killed or been accused of killing his wife? Even all-around asshole Fireball didn’t murder his wife when he decided to get rid of her.

Cersei had Robert killed. And Sansa had Joffrey killed (more or less). Tyrion also did something to his wife that was just as bad. Lots of spousal violence going around. 

Ramsay had lady Hornwood locked in a tower until she ate herself. 

[BlackLightning]

13 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Cersei had Robert killed. And Sansa had Joffrey killed (more or less). Tyrion also did something to his wife that was just as bad. Lots of spousal violence going around. 

Ramsay had lady Hornwood locked in a tower until she ate herself. 

And then there is Victarion who beat his most recent wife to death

Sansa did not have Joffrey killed. She's not in any way culpable...granted, she might take credit for it further down the line when it proves advantageous to do so. But you can't say that she had Joffrey killed.

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Even all-around asshole Fireball didn’t murder his wife when he decided to get rid of her.

Who? You mean Aegon the Unlikely?

[BlackLightning]

17 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Lucrerys was quite young as well, though?

But Lucerys was already betrothed.

[The Bard of Banefort]

15 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

And then there is Victarion who beat his most recent wife to death

Sansa did not have Joffrey killed. She's not in any way culpable...granted, she might take credit for it further down the line when it proves advantageous to do so. But you can't say that she had Joffrey killed.

Who? You mean Aegon the Unlikely?

Fireball forced his wife to join the silent sisters so that he could become a kingsguard. Then he helped lead the Blackfyre rebellion after Daeron picked someone else.

[Lord Varys]

14 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I wonder if the show is going to spread the war out to span several years? Aegon needs to be old enough to at least understand what’s happening when Rhaenyra is killed, and right now he’s a toddler.

Yes, it looks like that, I commented on that earlier. Joffrey Velaryon also needs to grow older to do what he did ... and one imagines that they will do something with him, now that Luke is gone. It made a lot of sense that season 1 fleshed out Jace and Luke and ignored the other boys to a point, considering that both will die sooner rather than later, and especially Luke people needed to know before he died.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

On 12/1/2022 at 9:23 PM, BlackLightning said:

But Lucerys was already betrothed.

I mean that Borros didn't consider Luke's age to be a problem, just the fact that he was betrothed. Is the age difference between Luke and Aegon/Viserys too much?

[SeanF]

On 12/1/2022 at 8:07 PM, butterweedstrover said:

Cersei had Robert killed. And Sansa had Joffrey killed (more or less). Tyrion also did something to his wife that was just as bad. Lots of spousal violence going around. 

Ramsay had lady Hornwood locked in a tower until she ate herself. 

I think you mean Margaery had Joffrey killed, but I doubt if Margaery was the instigator of the poisoning.

[The Bard of Banefort]

So long story short, even in Westeros, murdering your spouse is a uniquely shitty thing to do.

Isn’t that convention this week? Maybe they’ll announce Snow.

[butterweedstrover]

Well, George said recently Joffrey was just a teenage bully with too much power and we were supposed to feel bad about his death so I guess his view of spousal violence isn’t as… damning as some others. 
 

But then again Martin has been misreading his own characters all the time so maybe this is just par for the course.

[The Bard of Banefort]

2 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Well, George said recently Joffrey was just a teenage bully with too much power and we were supposed to feel bad about his death so I guess his view of spousal violence isn’t as… damning as some others. 
 

But then again Martin has been misreading his own characters all the time so maybe this is just par for the course.

You mean you don’t think Littlefinger is super charismatic and not at all suspicious?

[butterweedstrover]

13 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

You mean you don’t think Littlefinger is super charismatic and not at all suspicious?

The part that was left out about him bragging to everyone about seducing a noble lady out of wedlock was that he did it in a very tastefully manner that made him seem inoffensive and friendly. 

Oh and the Brothel, no there was nothing going on there, just a completely legitimate business by an upstanding member of the community. They were all shocked to learn about his nefarious dealings, no one could believe it. In fact they still don't believe. That Littlefinger wouldn't betray anyone.  

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, butterweedstrover said:

Well, George said recently Joffrey was just a teenage bully with too much power and we were supposed to feel bad about his death so I guess his view of spousal violence isn’t as… damning as some others. 
 

But then again Martin has been misreading his own characters all the time so maybe this is just par for the course.

I was delighted by Joffrey’s death.

[butterweedstrover]

51 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I was delighted by Joffrey’s death.

Actually I didn’t care at that point. But George thinking it would garner sympathy for him was way off base.
 

I was surprised though… 
 

 

[DMC]

I actually thought the show did a better job eliciting sympathy for Joffrey with their death scene than the books.  But..I do recall I was in the decided minority when that ep aired.  Even my sister was like "the fuck you talking bout?"