How do you want The Freys to face their ruin?

[Craving Peaches]

I know lots of people want to see them dead but wouldn't it be more satisfying if they were kept alive but had to live completely destitute, doing jobs like cleaning the privy trenches or something?

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I know lots of people want to see them dead but wouldn't it be more satisfying if they were kept alive but had to live completely destitute, doing jobs like cleaning the privy trenches or something?

That would do.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I know lots of people want to see them dead but wouldn't it be more satisfying if they were kept alive but had to live completely destitute, doing jobs like cleaning the privy trenches or something?

For most of them. Roslyn i hope stays Edmure’s wife and I hope Olyvar becomes a knight. And Lord Walder needs to die, and he probably will. But the rest, yeah that’s be fitting.

[TheLastWolf]

4 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

doing jobs like cleaning the privy trenches or something?

My bounties never hang

[Northern Sword]

They are almost universally hated and despised in the Seven Kingdoms. It is only a matter of time. It will be the fury of the North that will bring them down.

It will be hard to separate out the guilty vs innocent once their downfall starts.

I can see one of the "Branch's" surviving. The family ties to other important houses may save selected Freys, but destruction is coming one way or another and it will be well deserved.

Like many have stated, I hope Olyvar,  Roslyn and a few others survive.

[Gilbert Green]

3 hours ago, Northern Sword said:

Like many have stated, I hope Olyvar,  Roslyn and a few others survive.

For my own amusement, I prepared a Lord Walder Frey line of succession.  By my count, Olyvar is #42 in line; and Roslin is #88 in line.  You can move them up 3 spots by presuming the death in pork pies of the missing Freys.  A handful of others can be eliminated by pledges to the Faith or Citadel, etc.  Ahead of both Olyvar and Roslin are a large number children and other innocents. 

I'll post the list if anyone's curious.  I had to make a few assumptions and/or educated guesses about how Westerosi succession law works.  Which some might want to discuss.

[Craving Peaches]

47 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said:

I'll post the list if anyone's curious.  I had to make a few assumptions and/or educated guesses about how Westerosi succession law works.  Which some might want to discuss.

I would like to see it, if you don't mind. You should show off your hard work!

[Northern Sword]

1 hour ago, Gilbert Green said:

For my own amusement, I prepared a Lord Walder Frey line of succession.  By my count, Olyvar is #42 in line; and Roslin is #88 in line.  You can move them up 3 spots by presuming the death in pork pies of the missing Freys.  A handful of others can be eliminated by pledges to the Faith or Citadel, etc.  Ahead of both Olyvar and Roslin are a large number children and other innocents. 

I'll post the list if anyone's curious.  I had to make a few assumptions and/or educated guesses about how Westerosi succession law works.  Which some might want to discuss.

First.. I applaud your attention to detail. 

Second.. of course I want to see the list. 

Third.. Taking out 40 to 80ish Freys is acceptable. With a few exceptions of course.

[Gilbert Green]

14 hours ago, Northern Sword said:

Second.. of course I want to see the list. 

The list is below.  It is intended as a list of Lord Walder's heirs, and will perhaps be most relevant if Lord Walder lives long enough to see the massacre of his entire clan.  

However, there might be some re-ordering, if Lord Walder dies before certain people. I have in mind, specifically, the rule that daughters take before uncles.  Hence, if Edwyn survives his great grandfather, and becomes Lord of the Crossing, then the new Lord Edwyn's daughter will have to then be moved ahead, at the very least, of Lord Edwyn's uncles.  I currently have Walda at #47 as the heir of Lord Walder, but she would occupy a higher position as her father's heir.  It is unclear to me if daughters also take before brothers, and that could become an issue if Edwyn becomes Lord.  But in Lord Walder's case, we know of none of HIS brothers who survive or left surviving issue.  So it does not effect this list

The Wiki says that Edwyn's daughter Walda is second in line after Edwyn.  But it cites no source for this.  As counterevidence, we have Big Walder's statement that Black Walder was fourth in line at a time when Ryman and Stevron were still alive and Walda already born; and his statement, after Stevron's death, that the next in line were Ryman, Edwyn, Black Walder, Petyr and Aegon (the last two now dead, and therefore not on the list below).  I therefore don't take "daughters before uncles" as evidence that great-great-grandaughters take before sons or grandsons.  I therefore assume that Lord Walder must run out of male descendants through a male line before we turn to any females, or males descended through a female line.  My belief is that it is only against collateral lines - through uncles and maybe through brothers as well, that a daughter or female-line-descendant can take precedence.

I have applied Big Walder's rule that sons of sons take before younger sons (etc.), and applied a similar rule when turning to females and female-line descendants.

For those disturbed my the slaughter of children, I have marked those known to be under 12 with a "*".  The " ■ " marked the number of generations removed from Lord Walder (■ = child; ■■ = grandchild; ■■■ = great grandchild; ■■■■ = great-great-grandchild).

Where there is reason to suspect a person will be skipped in the line of succession, such as Septon's vows or something else, I have listed the reason in bold.

I welcome any corrections.

00.  Walder (Current Lord)
01.  ■ ■ ■ Edwyn (great grandson via Ryman via Stevron)
02.  ■ ■ ■ “Black” Walder (great grandson via Ryman via Stevron)

EDIT:  Big Walder makes a curious reference to "Aegon and his sons" which implies that Aegon (that is, Jinglebell) has sons that would be in the line of succession.  If such sons exist they would go here, between Black Walder and Walton

03.  ■ ■ Walton (grandson-via-Stevron)
04.  ■ ■ ■ “Sweet” Steffon (great grandson-via-Walton-via-Stevron)
05.  ■ ■ ■ Bryan (great grandson-via-Walton-via-Stevron)
06.  ■ Emmon (son)
07.  ■ ■ ■ Tywin (great grandson-via-Cleos-Via-Emmon)
08.  ■ ■ ■ Willem* (great grandson-via-Cleos-via-Emmon).
09.  ■ ■ Ser Lyonel (grandson-via-Emmon)
10.  ■ ■ “Red” Walder (grandson-via-Emmon)
11.  ■ ■ Aegon “Bloodborn” (grandson-via-Aenys); Outlaw
12.  ■ ■ Rhaegar (grandson-via-Aeynys).  Missing (pork pie?).
13.  ■ ■ ■ Robert (great-grandson-via-Rhaegar-via-Aenys)
14.  ■ ■ ■ Jonos* (great-grandson-via-Rhaegar-via-Aenys).
15.  ■ Ser Jared (son).  Missing (pork pie?).
16.  ■ ■ ■ Zachery (great-grandson-via-Tytos-via-Jared); training at the Sept in Oldtown
17.  ■ Luceon (son); Septon
18,  ■ Ser Hosteen (son).
19.  ■ ■ Arwood (grandson-via-Hosteen).
20.  ■ ■ ■ Androw* (great-grandson-via-Arwood-via-Hosteen)
21.  ■ ■ ■ Alyn* (great-grandson-via-Arwood-via-Hosteen)
22.  ■ Symond (son); Missing (pork pie?)
23.  ■ ■ Alesander (grandson-via-Symond)
24.  ■ ■ Bradamar* (grandson-via-Symond)
25.  ■ Danwell (son)
26.  ■ ■ Sandor (grandson-via-Geremy)
27.  ■ Raymund (son)
28.  ■ ■ Robert (grandson-via-Raymund); Training at Citadel.
29.  ■ ■ Malwyn (grandson-via-Raymund); apprenticed to Alchemist in Lys
30.  ■ ■ Jaime* (grandson-via-Raymund).
31.  ■ ■ Tywin* (grandson-via-Raymund)
32.  ■ “Lame” Lothar (son)
33.  ■ Ser Jammos (son)
34.  ■ ■ “Big” Walder* (grandson-via-Jammos)
35.  ■ ■ Dickon* (grandson-via-Jammos)
36.  ■ ■ Mathis* (grandson-via-Jammos)
37.  ■ Ser Whalen (son)
38.  ■ ■ Hoster (grandson-via-Jammos)
39.  ■ Ser Perwin (son)
40.  ■ ■ Osmund* (grandson-via-Benfrey)
41.  ■ Maester Willamen (son).  Maester in Service at Longbow Hall.
42.  ■ Olyvar (son).  
43.  ■ Wendel (son).
44.  ■ Colmar (son).  Promised to the Faith.
45.  ■ “Tyr” Waltyr* (son)
46.  ■ Elmar* (son)
47.  ■ ■ ■ ■ Walda* (great-great-granddaughter-via-Edwyn-via-Ryman-via-Stevron)
48.  ■ ■ ■ ■ Perra* (great-great-granddaughter-via-Petyr-via-Ryman-via-Stevron)
49.  ■ ■ ■ Walder Vance (great-grandson-via-Maegelle-via-Stevron)
50.  ■ ■ ■  Patrek* Vance (great-grandson-via-Maegelle-via-Stevron)
51.  ■ ■ ■ Marianne Vance (great-granddaughter-via=Maegelle-via-Stevron).
52.  ■ ■ ■ “Fair” Walda (great-granddaughter-via-Walton-via-Stevron)
53.  ■ ■ ■ “White” Walda (great-grandaughter-via-Rhaegar-via-Aenys)
54.  ■ Perianne (daughter) m. Haigh
55.  ■ ■ Ser Harys Haigh (grandson-via-Perianne)
56.  ■ ■ ■ Walder Haigh* (great-grandson-via-Harys-via-Perianne)
57.  ■ ■ Ser Donnel Haigh (grandson-via-Perianne)
58.  ■ ■ Alyn Haigh (grandson-via-Perianne)
59.  ■ ■ ■ Zia (great-granddaugher-via-Tytos-via-Jared)
60.  ■ ■ Kyra (granddaughter-via-Jared) m. Goodbrook
61.  ■ ■ ■ Walder Goodbrook* (great-grandson-via-Kyra-via-Jared)
62.  ■ ■ ■ Jeyne Goodbrook* (great-granddaughter-via-Kyra-via-Jared)
63.  ■ ■ ■ Ryella* (great-grandaughter-via-Arwood-via-Hosteen)
64.  ■ ■ ■ Hostella* (great-grandaughter-via-Arwood-via-Hosteen).
65.  ■ Lythene (daughter) m. Vypren
66.  ■ ■ Damon Vypren (grandson-via-Lythene)
67.  ■ ■ Elyana Vypren (grandaughter-via-Lythene) m. Wylde
68.  ■ ■ ■ Rickard Wylde* (great-grandson-via-Elyana-via-Lythene).
69.  ■ ■ Alyx (granddaugher-via-Symond)
70.  ■ ■ “Gatehouse Ami” Amerei (granddaughter-via-Merritt) m. Lannister,
71.  ■ ■ “Fat” Walda (granddaughter-via-Merritt) m. Bolton
72.  ■ ■  Marissa (granddaughter-via-Merritt).
73.  ■ ■ Cynthea* (granddaugher-via-Geremy)
74.  ■ ■ Serra (granddaughter-via-Raymund)
75.  ■ ■ Sarra (granddaughter-via-Raymund)
76.  ■ ■ “Little Bee” Cersei* (granddaughter-via-Raymund)
77.  ■ ■ Tysane* (granddaughter-via-Lothar)
78.  ■ ■ Walda* (granddaughter-via-Lothar)
79.  ■ ■ Emberlei* (granddaughter-via-Lothar)
80.  ■ ■ Leana* (granddaughter-via-Lothar)
81.  ■ ■ “Merry” Merianne (granddaughter-via-Whalen).
82.  ■ Moyra (daughter) m. Brax
83.  ■ ■ Robert Brax* (grandson-via-Moyra)
84.  ■ ■ Walder Brax*  (grandson-via-Moyra)
85.  ■ ■ Jon Brax* (grandson-via-Moyra)
86.  ■ Tyta “the Maid” (daughter).
87.  ■ ■ “Deaf” Della* (granddaughter-via-Benfrey)
88.  ■ Roslin (daughter) m. Tully
89.  ■ Arwyn (daughter)
90.  ■ Shirei* (daughter)

* Under age 12.

 

[sweetsunray]

The Walder that's still alive in the North will be the new Lord Frey, the one to continue the name, as he has said several times already.

Olyvar is set up to be mysterious ward of Rosby who was in Lord Rosby's will. Together with his neighbour Bron these two are now in a position to do a blockade on King's Landing once Aegon VI has momentum in the Stormlands. Olyvar rescinds the name Frey and becomes Lord Rosby. These are castles and lands and houses that Cersei has tried to acquisition for the crown to enrich herself. Other lords or ladies of small but rich houses in the Crownlands would have watched this development with trepidation and suspicion. With much of the Lannister army in trouble in the Riverlands and partially defeated against Aegon, and the Reach faction getting split, I'm sure Bron and Olyvar will be able to convince other houses to join in a blockade against King's Landing, when Cersei's alliances have fallen apart, news of the Red Wedding 2.0 spreads and the houses of the Reach that may still be partial to King Tommen are required to defend the Reach agains Euron.

[Gilbert Green]

One thing that confuses me is Big Walder's reference to "Aegon and his sons", which implies that Jinglebell was married, and had sons that are in the line of succession.  If such sons exist, they would be fairly high on my list above, after Black Walder.  Not sure, though, why GRRM would have Big Walder mention them, and then leave them out of the appendices.

[Aline de Gavrillac]

Lothar and Black Walder deserved punishment.  The rest of the Freys should be forgiven because the Starks broke an oath.  The Starks also deserve punishment.  

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

1 hour ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Lothar and Black Walder deserved punishment.  The rest of the Freys should be forgiven because the Starks broke an oath.  The Starks also deserve punishment.  

They broke an oath, they deserved chastisement, not a violation of natural law. Not a slaughter, the people that actually believe Robb and Cat deserved the Red Wedding are trolls or are absolutely delusional. They just can’t be reading the same story as us.

[sifth]

They don't all deserve to die, but most of them do. The ones who took part in the RW or in any way, shape or form think it's just do however.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

1 minute ago, sifth said:

They don't all deserve to die, but most of them do. The ones who took part in the RW or in any way, shape or form think it's just do however.

In any way, sharp, or form includes Roselyn. Who I think doesn’t, cuz she had absolutely no say in it.

[Craving Peaches]

5 hours ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

In any way, sharp, or form includes Roselyn. Who I think doesn’t, cuz she had absolutely no say in it.

I agree. And also, even if you include Roslyn, killing her at this stage would kill Edmure's innocent baby.

[sifth]

6 hours ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

In any way, sharp, or form includes Roselyn. Who I think doesn’t, cuz she had absolutely no say in it.

Fair point. She clearly took part because she was scared. No doubt the other Freys threatened her in some way. She's an exception though and not the rule.