Hugorfonics Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 He seems to more then Eddard or even Jaime. Was he always like that? Before the war as much as after? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willam Stark Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 The Targaryens have hurt him: the Mad King asked for his head without any reason, Rhaegar stole his bride and raped her multiple times, Viserys III and his sister threaten his rule. Even if it is disproportionate, I can understand his hatred, especially with the informations he had. Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 and Craving Peaches 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) Above all IMO b/c Rhaegar “kidnapped and raped Lyanna”. ETA: where Lyanna is not only Lyanna but the promise of what could have been instead of what was. Edited January 31 by kissdbyfire Craving Peaches, Morte and Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 minutes ago, Willam Stark said: Rhaegar stole his bride and raped her multiple times Robert probably knows deep down inside that Lyanna willingly ran off with Rhaegar but is in denial about it. Morte 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willam Stark Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 5 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: Robert probably knows deep down inside that Lyanna willingly ran off with Rhaegar but is in denial about it. I agree with you, but I was presenting Robert's point of view on the issue. Morte 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Hes clearly a passionate man , relying on pure fury in combat , drinking and whoring in excess now he cant fight or train , adoring various women and sometimes their bastards until bored etc the targs hurt him personaly so he feels that rage back them intensely as he feels all things!! Now hes deeply bitter about his situation from his marriage ,his in laws , his brothers and ruling etc He had a vision of his life in his head and that was snatched away from him by the targs ! The perfect wife that he imagined lyanna was (and ned called him out on this she wasnt who he thought) and its ties to his best friend forever gone by the actions of a maniac who tortured his best friends family to death and then his son kidnapped and possibly raped his wife to be! The sheer cheek and disrespect to his owm person too His anger seethes at what he thought lyanna would have been for him and what hes left with (cersei) ......and rhaegar and co are where that displaced anger flows to. The threat of being overthrown himself by their 2 kids means he cant ever enjoy peace too EggBlue and Craving Peaches 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I think Robert might have also blamed Aerys for his father's death. Steffon died fulfilling Aerys' command and although it wasn't really Aerys' fault Robert could still put the blame on him anyway. Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 and Willam Stark 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Lyanna was his property, and she was stolen from him. Morte 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Maegor the Cool Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Rhaegar “stealing” Lyanna created a romanticized version of Lyanna due to Robert’s extremely high ego. “Theres no way she would choose him over me! I’m me! I’m a big deal!” So he deluded himself that she was kidnapped against her will, and he had to become the galant hero to rescue her! It’s a lovely tale, if it was all factual. Which it isn’t. I think Ned realizes this but doesn’t tell Robert for obvious reasons. Morte and EggBlue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Just now, SeanF said: Lyanna was his property, and she was stolen from him. Given how much of a womaniser Robert was, I don't really understand why he obsessed with Lyanna to the degree that he was. Did he really fall in love with her, or was it something else? Hugorfonics 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 Roberts hatred goes beyond Aerys and Rhaegar to their children though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Roberts hatred goes beyond Aerys and Rhaegar to their children though Not necessarily. For instance, I don’t think he hated Rhaenys and Aegon, but he was bitter enough about the ‘wrongs’ he suffered - real or imagined - not to care about what happened to them. Because w/ Robert it’s always about Robert. I believe he thought that once he married Lyanna he’d settle down and stop being such a whore. Of course that’s not realistic given Robert’s personality, but what Robert believed or not is another issue. What I take from the little we get in the text is that Robert ‘hated’ Dany & Viserys a lot more than Rhaenys & Viserys. Why? Because of I said up thread: Lyanna doesn’t represent only a woman he loved and lost, but everything that could have been and never was. Back then he was a handsome & privileged young man who was going to marry the ‘love of his life’ (or so he believed), the sister of his BFF. Then shit hit the fan spectacularly, and look where he is now? He’s a fat, lazy, womanizing king who has no interest in ruling, he’s married to Cersei, and he owes everything to Tywin Lannister. He’s bitter about the whole thing, and of course, being Robert he sees no blame in himself or his behaviour. And the more time passes, the further what could have been becomes, which leads to him becoming even more embittered, and so the more he blames the Targaryens, Tywin, Cersei, etc. Edited January 31 by kissdbyfire Craving Peaches, Ser Arthurs Dawn, SeanF and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 39 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: Given how much of a womaniser Robert was, I don't really understand why he obsessed with Lyanna to the degree that he was. Did he really fall in love with her, or was it something else? He did He falls in love quickly then out again, he dotes on his bastards then cools on them. With lyanna he never got the chance for his fantasy to slowly be dulled by reality plus the image he has in his mind of lyanna is contrasted every day with the toxicity of cersei SeanF, Morte, sweetsunray and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 (edited) 31 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Not necessarily. For instance, I don’t think he hated Rhaenys and Aegon, but he was bitter enough about the ‘wrongs’ he suffered - real or imagined - to not care about what happened to them. Because w/ Robert it’s always about Robert. He won't seek justice for their murder because he "only sees dragonspawn" that goes beyond indifference to a dehumanizing level of hatred Edited January 31 by Hugorfonics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Prince Rhaegar Targareyen said: Rhaegar “stealing” Lyanna created a romanticized version of Lyanna due to Robert’s extremely high ego. “Theres no way she would choose him over me! I’m me! I’m a big deal!” So he deluded himself that she was kidnapped against her will, and he had to become the galant hero to rescue her! It’s a lovely tale, if it was all factual. Which it isn’t. I think Ned realizes this but doesn’t tell Robert for obvious reasons. But again, even Robert himself doesn't seem to fully believe it: Quote Rhaegar … Rhaegar won, damn him. I killed him, Ned, I drove the spike right through that black armor into his black heart, and he died at my feet. They made up songs about it. Yet somehow he still won. He has Lyanna now, and I have her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 16 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: He won't seek justice for their murder because he "only sees dragonspawn" that goes beyond indifference to a dehumanizing level of hatred Indeed, he revelled in the deaths of Elia and her children. Morte, EggBlue and Hugorfonics 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 3 hours ago, Hugorfonics said: He seems to more then Eddard or even Jaime. Was he always like that? Before the war as much as after? To the latter is completely unknown. But to the former, it's pretty easy to understand. Robert hated his life and the Targaryen were a pretty easy deflection of blame. It was either that or starting assuming the consequences of his own actions and he wasn't about to do that. 2 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: Robert probably knows deep down inside that Lyanna willingly ran off with Rhaegar but is in denial about it. He probably doesn't tbf. When he's on his deathbed he's looking forward being reunited with her. Quote I don't really understand why he obsessed with Lyanna to the degree that he was. Did he really fall in love with her, or was it something else? Why do we get hung up on the one who got away even tho they were clearly not compatible with us? Because they got away. Quote They made up songs about it. Yet somehow he still won. He has Lyanna now, and I have her. Rhaegar died but so did Lyanna. Ergo Lyanna is with him and he is alive with Cersei. It is not really rocket science. Edited January 31 by frenin Hugorfonics and EggBlue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 1 hour ago, SeanF said: Indeed, he revelled in the deaths of Elia and her children. I wouldn't say he revelled in it. He certainly wasn't bothered, and was very callous about the whole affair, but 'revelled', at least to me, implies he took some sort of joy in it, or was gleeful about it, which we don't really see. Ned never mentions Robert smiling or reacting positively when recalling what he said. Quote He remembered the angry words they had exchanged when Tywin Lannister had presented Robert with the corpses of Rhaegar's wife and children as a token of fealty. Ned had named that murder; Robert called it war. When he had protested that the young prince and princess were no more than babes, his new-made king had replied, "I see no babes. Only dragonspawn." Edited January 31 by Craving Peaches Clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 44 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: I wouldn't say he revelled in it. He certainly wasn't bothered, and was very callous about the whole affair, but 'revelled', at least to me, implies he took some sort of joy in it, or was gleeful about it, which we don't really see. We know Robert didn't smile about it. “I see no babes, only dragonspawn” sounds pretty gleeful to me. Morte and EggBlue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 17 minutes ago, SeanF said: “I see no babes, only dragonspawn” sounds pretty gleeful to me. Quote adjective: gleeful exuberantly or triumphantly joyful. "she gave a gleeful chuckle" Quote past tense: revelled; past participle: revelled enjoy oneself in a lively and noisy way, especially with drinking and dancing. get great pleasure from (a situation or experience). There's no mention of Robert smiling and it's never mentioned he had a happy or glad intonation, so I just don't get the sense he's being gleeful or revelling in their deaths. Unless we have different definitions of the words... Edited January 31 by Craving Peaches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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