Things That Detract From Your Enjoyment

[Corvo the Crow]

11 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I just don't think it makes it believable to 'I will bank everything I have on this' standard, but maybe I'm just more cautious than most.

I wouldn't bank it either, and considering Stannis, he shouldn't have banked it also, even if Mel outright claimed she'll kill Renly instead of saying she saw visions, he should've been suspicious but didn't happen.

[Craving Peaches]

Just now, Corvo the Crow said:

I wouldn't bank it either, and considering Stannis, he shouldn't have banked it also, even if Mel outright claimed she'll kill Renly instead of saying she saw visions, he should've been suspicious but didn't happen.

Yeah. Something is up there.

[Corvo the Crow]

9 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Wouldn’t it at least be “I saw Renly dying IF you go attack SE and draw him there.”? Stannis had to play an active role, he sought his brothers death, took extreme steps to achieve it, and even the shadow baby assassin had his face…I don’t think GRRM is being subtle here. 

Shadow assassin has his face because it's drawn from his energy and after it has happened, Stannis is aware of his involvement, telling Davos of his dream, but before that it's just that Mel having visions. Also how active a part would it be? He had three leeches suck him and be burned for the three kingly deaths.

 

[James Arryn]

1 minute ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Shadow assassin has his face because it's drawn from his energy and after it has happened, Stannis is aware of his involvement, telling Davos of his dream, but before that it's just that Mel having visions. Also how active a part would it be? He had three leeches suck him and be burned for the three kingly deaths.

 

…and invaded the Stormlands and besieged SE…? That’s as active as Stannis or any other mortal can get. 

[Sandy Clegg]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Some of the characters who were most certain to have died but survived doing it not once but several times. Tyrion is the most prominent example of this.  

I strongly recommend you never read the James Bond series of books. 
 

I dunno, feels almost like fiction is where things happen in almost unrealistic ways compared to real life. Huh. 
 

I will say I could do without all the references to juice dribbling chins, though. Some of us are reading at lunch, dammit.

[Curled Finger]

2 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Because GRRM has said his primary criticism of Tolkien was bringing Gandalf back from the dead devalued death, I am always surprised that he keeps undead-ing characters. I think it would bother me a bit even without the Tolkien thing, but because of it each time it seems to be going that way I half-way convince myself it’s not happening again, and when it does I’m more annoyed than I would be otherwise. 
 

That connects to another minor obstacle; when he leans towards his horror writer side. Reek in the cell, Ramsay generally, Euron…it’s well written, no arguing that, just not what I’m into reading. 

I took the comment to mean that Gandalf as a hero paid no real price for coming back from the dead.  There was no consequence for the death for the story really.  

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

The wait between books takes a bit of a toll sometimes.

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Wights resurrecting is fine and fine even now, especially considering the story but if a single more important character rises as a wight for it's convenient way of bringing them back to the story after their death I'm gonna puke.

Hang on.  Are you saying you didn't enjoy Beric or don't enjoy LSH?  Their stories, their purposes, their um states of being?  

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

Yeah, before that we see like one guy, then suddenly they have thousands of fresh troops available, where did they come from? I really doubt Robb ignored them, he wanted all the help he could get. And I expect to see them desert if they find out about the Weirwood burning.

Aren't the Northmen all greybeards and green boys?  Most of the able bodied men did go with Robb.  There may be a few, very few men in their prime left and perhaps a few have grown into manhood by now, but not thousands.  

[Craving Peaches]

Just now, Curled Finger said:

Aren't the Northmen all greybeards and green boys?  Most of the able bodied men did go with Robb.  There may be a few, very few men in their prime left and perhaps a few have grown into manhood by now, but not thousands.  

I thought Stannis got around a thousand men from the mountain clans. Now yes some of these are men who just want to go off to die to not be a burden during Winter, but this doesn't explain why they weren't there with Robb.

[Corvo the Crow]

6 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Hang on.  Are you saying you didn't enjoy Beric or don't enjoy LSH?  Their stories, their purposes, their um states of being?  

No I enjoy them but I think it should be left at that, two wights among prominent characters is enough, anymore would be too much.

 

4 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Aren't the Northmen all greybeards and green boys?  Most of the able bodied men did go with Robb.  There may be a few, very few men in their prime left and perhaps a few have grown into manhood by now, but not thousands.  

No it's the Umbers and perhaps Karstarks. Hill clansmen may also include some, but we are specifically told that ones who came to visit Jon (can't remember which ones) are too old to join the fight themselves but sent their sons and grandsons, so men in their prime included there.

[sifth]

The magically respawning Lannister army. Rob constantly beats them, but another Lannister we never heard of just shows up to take the place of the one Rob beat.

Gregor’s plot armor annoys me the most. The guy constantly gets stabbed and hit with arrows and is just fine whenever we next see him. Even being “killed” hasn’t slowed down his plot armor.

[Corvo the Crow]

27 minutes ago, Sandy Clegg said:

I dunno, feels almost like fiction is where things happen in almost unrealistic ways compared to real life. Huh. 

There are people with far more interesting and unbelievable lives than written in fiction (except magic parts), the problem here is having so many of them. Tywin getting his ass beaten off than getting troops feels real cheap but can be made an exception for once, or Stannis as well, but same thing happening over and over again feels cheap. Dany losing Khalasar and getting thousands of Unsullied is also cheap. Forgot to add it in the first post but it's very much in the same vein.

[Craving Peaches]

1 minute ago, sifth said:

Even being “killed” has slowed down his plot armor.

If anything it's thickened his plot armour.

[Curled Finger]

3 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I thought Stannis got around a thousand men from the mountain clans. Now yes some of these are men who just want to go off to die to not be a burden during Winter, but this doesn't explain why they weren't there with Robb.

Good point.  I always thought there wasn't time or rather that Robb rushed things and didn't wait to get everyone together.  All I really have to back this up is Howland Reed doesn't seem to acknowledge the call to arms yet much later Robb specifically targets this man as a safe harbor and reveals Reed's been put in charge of securing The Neck.  First and all we've heard of it?  Curious.  There has been communication and Moat Cailyn is lousy with Ironborn.  The whole thing is weird.  Next thing we know the heirs to Castle Reed (?) show up to swear fealty to Bran and escort his broken little self north of the Wall?  Perhaps there was something similar in place between Robb and the clansmen on the northern border?  They do seem interested in Jon Snow and well aware of current political changes all over the north.  There are plenty of folks who believe they know Bran is alive.  Supporting Stannis is a good way to oust the rebels and retake Winterfell.  Maybe there really is a thousand of them?  

[Curled Finger]

12 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

No I enjoy them but I think it should be left at that, two wights among prominent characters is enough, anymore would be too much.

 

No it's the Umbers and perhaps Karstarks. Hill clansmen may also include some, but we are specifically told that ones who came to visit Jon (can't remember which ones) are too old to join the fight themselves but sent their sons and grandsons, so men in their prime included there.

But neither Beric nor Cat were magical to begin with.  I would think a zombie-wight-werewolf magical undead creature would be a wonderful thing to read.  

Thank you for the reminder.  I sort of figured it out replying to Peaches.  

[Craving Peaches]

2 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Maybe there really is a thousand of them?  

Could be but it just really doesn't make sense that they weren't at least mentioned earlier. Even if not with Robb you'd think they'd show up at the Harvest Feast in Winterfell or something. Bran only sees one clan member when trekking to the Wall and that is it.

[Curled Finger]

Just now, Craving Peaches said:

Could be but it just really doesn't make sense that they weren't at least mentioned earlier. Even if not with Robb you'd think they'd show up at the Harvest Feast in Winterfell or something. Bran only sees one clan member when trekking to the Wall and that is it.

I read this recently.  The clansmen were discussing taking hostages or wards I think they were calling them.  There was a time they rebelled against The Starks and were brought to knee.  During this conversation they acknowledge the fairness of their punishment by the Starks and that the children and clans were none the worse for the children being taken.  I can see embarrassment and not wanting to travel all that way.  Busted out the estimator.  It is 680 miles from Castle Black to Winterfell.  At 22 to 37 miles per day (quite quickly) it would take 18 to 30 days.  The estimator says it took Bran 45 days to make the trip.  It's not exactly a hop, skip and a jump, you know, to attend an optional dinner.  

[LongRider]

How many clansmen with Stannis?  I don't know but here is what Jon tells him.

A Dance with Dragons - Jon IV

"Ask, I said, not beg." Jon pulled back his hand. "It is no good sending messages. Your Grace will need to go to them yourself. Eat their bread and salt, drink their ale, listen to their pipers, praise the beauty of their daughters and the courage of their sons, and you'll have their swords. The clans have not seen a king since Torrhen Stark bent his knee. Your coming does them honor. Command them to fight for you, and they will look at one another and say, 'Who is this man? He is no king of mine.' "

"How many clans are you speaking of?"

"Two score, small and large. Flint, Wull, Norrey, Liddle … win Old Flint and Big Bucket, the rest will follow."

[Curled Finger]

27 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

There are people with far more interesting and unbelievable lives than written in fiction (except magic parts), the problem here is having so many of them. Tywin getting his ass beaten off than getting troops feels real cheap but can be made an exception for once, or Stannis as well, but same thing happening over and over again feels cheap. Dany losing Khalasar and getting thousands of Unsullied is also cheap. Forgot to add it in the first post but it's very much in the same vein.

Wow, Corvo, I was fist pumping when Dany won the Unsullied their freedom and again when they chose to stay with her.  She wasn't there to pimp anything.  She was showing her true colors for the first time there.  It wasn't about replenishing force.  The Dothraki were always going to leave her, they weren't going to follow a woman and she didn't understand that.  Those who stayed are the heroes.  Her bloodriders.  Her pack.  Oh Corvo.  Nono, there was nothing cheap about those horrible beautiful mutilated boys joining Dany's pack.