The Bear - Season 2 - June 22

[Raja]

Yeah, I thought the episode was quite good but didn't reach the heights of a couple of episodes in season 1. The quiet moments with Mike & Carmen and also the three siblings outside were probably my favourite bits.

But yeah, I found it a bit..distracting and took me out of the show a little bit.

[Raja]

Finished the season and overall really enjoyed it.

I love the one shot in the finale, and enjoyed the finale overall even though I think the scene with Carmy and claire through the fridge was a bit convenient.

Still an excellent season, and I think Ritchie was probably the mvp of this season -  enjoyed Marcus' episode as well.

I know Carmen & Syd is a thing that's waiting to happen, but I wish relationships like that one don't turn romantic as I think those are just less interesting, but that's a personal preference.

[Mexal]

I don’t think Carmen and Syd is a romantic thing. Everything about them is professional and her annoyance with Carmy over Claire was that she was taking him away from what they were building and that spawned jealousy. Syd is more likely to romantically end up with Marcus.

[Raja]

I didn't really read it as romantic either, but it's something so much of the internet seems to be thinking.

[Relic]

I got some Carmy and Syd vibes under the table as well. on top of all the other praises given here, Oliver Platt killed it this season. 

I enjoyed s2 waaaaay more than i did s1, and will now actually recommend this show to others.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Relic

[Raja]

Yeah, Oliver pratt was really good too.

I find it hard to compare both seasons as they're so good, but S1 had more memorable moments for me

[Raja]

Love the point here regarding tenderness, and I think that is what shows like the Bear & Mad Men get right - it's about life & those moments between characters

 

[RedEyedGhost]

I binged both seasons over the past week on a whim.  Really enjoyed it. Forks was definitely my favorite episode overall - really wonderful seeing Richie finally getting his shit together.   

[Heartofice]

I think episode 6, the family dinner, pretty much sums everything I like and dislike about this show.

Full of pathos and great characters.

But it also is far too good at communicating unpleasant levels of stress and discomfort. It’s taken me 3 attempts to get through this episode, I found it just headache inducing, which I think is on purpose because that is how characters are feeling, but wow I don’t enjoy that feeling

[Ran]

Vacationing right now and have used the time to catch up on some shows people have buzzed about, and breezed through the first season of The Bear in a day, and taking a little more time with the second season. Loved seeing the danskjävlar capital  of Copenhagen being depicted so beautifully (it really is a beautiful city) in the "Honeydew" episode that focused on Marcus, and now just finished the tour-de-force of dysfunctional family holiday dinners that is "Fishes". What a stacked cast of guest stars they had for the Berlazzo friends and family. Especially, of course, Jamie Lee Curtis as Donna Berlazzo, who is to the Berlazzo children as Livia Soprano was to her children. And seeing Jon Bernthal as Mikey again was great, as we dig into how much of a mess he actually was, which wasn't so evident from his first appearance

All that said, one of the things I started hearing about the show was some talk that maybe it was over-rated, that those who loved it were really hyping it, and .... yes? It's really good, but I'm not sure I'd put it in the pantheon of the greats. I find cetain aspects a little grating. Its use of music, for example, was a first fun.... but now has become a boring trope that reminds me of how people used to rag on Greys Anatomy for its on-the-nose needledrops. I also feel like the writers have given themselves too much license for unreal nonsense in a show that otherwise feels grounded (especially in the kitchen -- I've seen professionals in the industry rave about its accuracy, and I know Christopher Storer's sister Courtney is a consultant and is a professional chef who's worked some high-end places). Like what with Jimmy Cicero -- who's clearly some sort of midwest gangster associate, maybe a loan shark -- just flinging money around because he has some sort of association with the family? It just seems like nonsense the show didn't need.

Finally, it's a very masculine show. Most of the raves I've seen come, no surprise, from men (it's no surprise to me that the posters in this thread are exclusively male as well!). This is in part for depicting the world of chefs as one of high-wire constant tension just moments from disaster, and the editing and pacing of those segments of the show treat the whole process as being as fraught as... I don't know, Tom Cruise disarming a nuclear bomb in Mission Impossible. But the other part of it is, I think, that it actually focuses a lot on the relationships between men, whether friends or relatives, and how men are expected to operate in the world. In that respect, while his character is an incredible fuckup, I think Ebon Moss-Bacharach's Richie is a real key character to the show's themes and intentions. His constant flailing that never seems to get him anywhere feels like a metaphor.

So, quite liking this, looking forward to the final episodes of the season.

 

[Heartofice]

21 hours ago, Ran said:

Vacationing right now and have used the time to catch up on some shows people have buzzed about, and breezed through the first season of The Bear in a day, and taking a little more time with the second season. Loved seeing the danskjävlar capital  of Copenhagen being depicted so beautifully (it really is a beautiful city) in the "Honeydew" episode that focused on Marcus, and now just finished the tour-de-force of dysfunctional family holiday dinners that is "Fishes". What a stacked cast of guest stars they had for the Berlazzo friends and family. Especially, of course, Jamie Lee Curtis as Donna Berlazzo, who is to the Berlazzo children as Livia Soprano was to her children. And seeing Jon Bernthal as Mikey again was great, as we dig into how much of a mess he actually was, which wasn't so evident from his first appearance

All that said, one of the things I started hearing about the show was some talk that maybe it was over-rated, that those who loved it were really hyping it, and .... yes? It's really good, but I'm not sure I'd put it in the pantheon of the greats. I find cetain aspects a little grating. Its use of music, for example, was a first fun.... but now has become a boring trope that reminds me of how people used to rag on Greys Anatomy for its on-the-nose needledrops. I also feel like the writers have given themselves too much license for unreal nonsense in a show that otherwise feels grounded (especially in the kitchen -- I've seen professionals in the industry rave about its accuracy, and I know Christopher Storer's sister Courtney is a consultant and is a professional chef who's worked some high-end places). Like what with Jimmy Cicero -- who's clearly some sort of midwest gangster associate, maybe a loan shark -- just flinging money around because he has some sort of association with the family? It just seems like nonsense the show didn't need.

Finally, it's a very masculine show. Most of the raves I've seen come, no surprise, from men (it's no surprise to me that the posters in this thread are exclusively male as well!). This is in part for depicting the world of chefs as one of high-wire constant tension just moments from disaster, and the editing and pacing of those segments of the show treat the whole process as being as fraught as... I don't know, Tom Cruise disarming a nuclear bomb in Mission Impossible. But the other part of it is, I think, that it actually focuses a lot on the relationships between men, whether friends or relatives, and how men are expected to operate in the world. In that respect, while his character is an incredible fuckup, I think Ebon Moss-Bacharach's Richie is a real key character to the show's themes and intentions. His constant flailing that never seems to get him anywhere feels like a metaphor.

So, quite liking this, looking forward to the final episodes of the season.

 

I do think the show is very good, but definitely over hyped. A lot of it just doesn’t totally land for me. 
 

Watching episode 7: Forks made me think a bit about why that is. Richie is really the emotional heart of the show, he was so great in this episode and you really just root for the guy to get over his issues and succeed.

Can you say the same for someone like Carmy? With him he’s so closed off and repressed that you just don’t get much as an audience, it’s hard to empathise with him. The writers had to insert those awkward therapy sessions just to have some space for him to talk about what’s going on in his head. That didn’t quite work. So instead it’s all deep looks and sad faces.. which are good but there are only so many you can do before it stops having an effect.

Similarly with Sydney, a character I thought would be central to the plot, seems a bit sidelined in season 2, and her relationship with Carmy is barely there ( sure it will get resolved by end of season however), but even she is closed off so all you get to see is that she’s ambitious. Not that interesting.

Its the background characters like Tina that really have any sort of emotional weight behind them, and they aren’t there very much. 
 

So I think that’s why I like but don’t love the show, it’s overall tone can be quite cold, on top of that it’s just so unrelenting in the tension and so little goes right for them that it’s not exactly feel good. 

[Raja]

On 7/31/2023 at 9:09 PM, RedEyedGhost said:

 Forks was definitely my favorite episode overall - really wonderful seeing Richie finally getting his shit together.   

Forks is pretty good but weirdly I enjoyed Ritchie in the next episode more, where he goes back to the bear

The 'Fuck Me' chef line is delivered so well here, makes me laugh every time

Also, liked this moment between Syd & Natalie

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Raja

[Ran]

12 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Watching episode 7: Forks made me think a bit about why that is. Richie is really the emotional heart of the show, he was so great in this episode and you really just root for the guy to get over his issues and succeed.

Yep, finished the season, and that episode after the harrowing 6th episode was fantastic. I also had to stop it and loudly wonder WTF was going on when Olivia fucking Colman shows up for a 3 minute cameo at the end, after the stacked 6th episode. Obviously, this show really landed with Hollywood stars and everyone seemed happy to make an appearance. Who'll show up for season 3, I wonder?

BUt yeah, terrific episode. And liked that 

Spoiler

the photo of Carmy and Luca confirmed what I think we were supposed to deduce, that Carmy was the chef who showed up who was so much better than him that Luca decided he could just be comfortable with being great and not the best. ALSO.... what odds that it was Luca who cracked the Haribo gummy bear-consistency gelée, which was mentioned in the first season?

12 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Can you say the same for someone like Carmy?

I think Claire was the show's answer to his repression, and I actually thinks it works once you watch through the whole season. I think episode six also did a lot to contextualize Carmen within his wildly dysfunctional family. 

12 hours ago, Heartofice said:

With him he’s so closed off and repressed that you just don’t get much as an audience, it’s hard to empathise with him. The writers had to insert those awkward therapy sessions just to have some space for him to talk about what’s going on in his head. That didn’t quite work.

Yeah, they were expository. I think the Claire relationship and what is revealed around it is, IMO, much more satisfactory.

Finale spoilers:

Spoiler

Carmy's damage is that the household he grew up in, with a wildly mentally unwell mother who appears to have gone untreated for her illness (or illnesses), and the buoyant, high-energy older brother who lacked any ability to follow through on his dreams, led to him becoming very closed off... and learning that it was great if he literally just laser-focused on things because he could shut out the chaos of his family life. His rise to fame, his claim to genius in the restaurant world, was his complete abandoning of self  in the pursuit of perfection on the job... but that meant neglecting himself and his desires and needs.

His conclusion at the end of this episode is really awful, and of course I hope the damage can be undone, but at the moment he basically doesn't know how to compartmentalize so he can both maintain high-level focus for his job while also enjoying life outside of the job. He feels like he's all-or-nothing, and that's something he has to unlearn. 

12 hours ago, Heartofice said:

 

Similarly with Sydney, a character I thought would be central to the plot, seems a bit sidelined in season 2,

True, but I think the rest of the season provides hints of both details of her past we did not know about, and potential developmens in her future, that suggest she'll become more present again.

 

6 hours ago, Raja said:

Forks is pretty good but weirdly I enjoyed Ritchie in the next episode more, where he goes back to the bear

You can't have Ritchie "I wear suits now" Jerimovich without episode 7, though. And I have to say, in the finale,

Spoiler

his running the expo like a pro and then arranging the surprise for Jimmy, a callback to something he once overheard him telling to his then-wife Tiffany five years ago, was one of the biggest highs the show has ever had.

6 hours ago, Raja said:

The 'Fuck Me' chef line is delivered so well here, makes me laugh every time

Yep, really funny. And I really liked how the chef explained why a smudge was such a problem, down to how many seconds, exactly, were lost to fix the problem. Honestly, you come to understand why fine dining is so stressful. Our local paper awhile back had an article discussing it, when Noma announced it was going to close down, saying that the hardship staff go through and the way so many of them simply fail financially is probably not worth it and maybe the right approach will be limited, pop-up style special events or perhaps more relaxed environments like cafeteria-style serving. 

6 hours ago, Raja said:

Also, liked this moment between Syd & Natalie

 

Yeah, that was sweet. I also liked the glimpses of her father realizing why his daughter wanted to do this, and why it was "the thing". 

All in all, this season was very different in a lot of ways, shifting focus and with less of that high-wire editing (until the finale), but it was equally good. I liked it a lot, and am looking forward to the next season.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Ran

[Relic]

17 hours ago, Ran said:

Honestly, you come to understand why fine dining is so stressful.

The Bear is the first thing ive ever watched about "fine dining" and its still such a foreign concept to me. I don't understand why everything has to be perfect. The 7th episode explain some of the concepts to me, but i still dont see how a smudge on a plate ruins someone's dining experience, and give the head chef a "legitimate" reason to be a raging asshole. 

[Ran]

6 minutes ago, Relic said:

The Bear is the first thing ive ever watched about "fine dining" and its still such a foreign concept to me. I don't understand why everything has to be perfect. The 7th episode explain some of the concepts to me, but i still dont see how a smudge on a plate ruins someone's dining experience, and give the head chef a "legitimate" reason to be a raging asshole. 

It's highly choreographed live performance art at the highest level.

A smudge on a plate represents a lack of care for the patron, giving them something less than what every other patron gets, and what the kitchen and wait staff strive for. When they are paying many hundreds -- and withe win pairings, probably well over a thousand -- dollars to visit a place that has a years-long waiting list, it's no surprise that this creates an expectation of something extraordinary being provided.

I saw one chef commenting on the show that to some degree, the staff at three star restaurants are basically not unlike elite military units, drilled to perfection and expected to reliably turn out the highest level of performance, day in and out.The difference being military units do it because it's life and death.... and fine dining places do it because it's professional life and death.

[Relic]

16 minutes ago, Ran said:

It's highly choreographed live performance art at the highest level.

A smudge on a plate represents a lack of care for the patron, giving them something less than what every other patron gets, and what the kitchen and wait staff strive for. When they are paying many hundreds -- and withe win pairings, probably well over a thousand -- dollars to visit a place that has a years-long waiting list, it's no surprise that this creates an expectation of something extraordinary being provided.

I saw one chef commenting on the show that to some degree, the staff at three star restaurants are basically not unlike elite military units, drilled to perfection and expected to reliably turn out the highest level of performance, day in and out.The difference being military units do it because it's life and death.... and fine dining places do it because it's professional life and death.

Yeah, right. I mostly get that, or at least i understand the driving factors. However, i cant wrap my head around someone screaming at me for smudging a plate. I'd chuck the plate at their head and leave immediately. I've also never paid thousands of dollars for a meal, and never will. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Relic

[Heartofice]

I finished the season now. It's hard to say whether my thoughts on the show overall have changed massively after that last episode or not, it was kind of like a microcosm of the show overall.

What I mean is this is a show that by all appearances is a 'feelgood' kinda show. You like all the characters, you want them to do well, there are often moments of success and joy that really give you the feels!

But for a lot of the runtime its a 'feelbad' show. So much shit goes on in these peoples lives, everything is stressful, each success is followed by a horrible failure, nobody is truly happy, everyone is basically struggling through life and inflicting pain on each other.  It's just a really tough watch at times. The last episode had so many moments of joy, followed by another moment where everything collapses and falls apart. I always feel kind of grim after every episode.

The last few episodes did at least do more to flesh out Carmey, he expressed his inner workings in a non therapy setting, and that helped me feel a little closer to him, but again, it makes the show a tough watch when hes so distant for most of it's run time.

Thats not to say I don't like the show, its good. But I don't have much enthusiasm to watch each episode, knowing I will feel depressed afterwards.

[A True Kaniggit]

I’m on episode 9 of season 2.

And I can’t help but notice there are like 9 tables in the remodeled restaurant plus the bar. 

Are they not expecting that many diners at a time?

Edited August 19, 2023 by A True Kaniggit

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

Is it just me or does this show remind you of a sports/competitive food anime show? 

[Heartofice]

3 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

I’m on episode 9 of season 2.

And I can’t help but notice there are like 9 tables in the remodeled restaurant plus the bar. 

Are they not expecting that many diners at a time?

Yeah it looks absolutely tiny. There is a point where they look overwhelmed by the amount of food they have to produce and I was very confused!