Football: The summer of selling (out)

[Rorshach]

Generally hard to draw conclusions from pre-season anyway. 

If you ask me (you didn't), I'd say Wrexham's cup run last year is more indicative of their possible quality. Beating Coventry and having Sheffield United just managing a replay before winning that - that's quality. Also, they were obviously a cut above National League, just like Notts County.

[BigFatCoward]

46 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Youth team football is pretty low level and probably similar in level to League 2 (division 4) but with less of the physicality. United's youth team is not even top 4 in the country. A lot of those youth players will probably end up spending their careers in the 3rd and 4th divisions. Only a very few will end up good enough to play at a higher level.

Paul Mullins punctured lung would like to have a word.

[Consigliere]

33 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Paul Mullins punctured lung would like to have a word.

Are you seriously suggesting that youth team football filled with teenagers is at the same level of physicality as League Two which is still a professional league filled with seasoned pros?

Mullins' injury was unfortunate but it was an accidental clash of two players going for a 50/50 ball. It wasn't a result of a studs up high boot or anything.

[Soylent Brown]

Isn't the United keeper 24? Hardly a youth!

[Consigliere]

Bishop is 23 but he's not the regular U21 goal keeper; Vitek is. Bishop will probably be sold or go out on loan again. Evans has also been playing with the youth side during preseason. 

[Soylent Brown]

Obviously the Wrexham reaction is way over the top, and there was no intent there other than to clatter him, but I'd like to see keepers punished more severely for that kind of challenge. He has no hope of getting the ball, only the player.

[Consigliere]

I think that Bishop should have been sent off but a yellow card was not surprising given how protected goal keepers are. I think the referee then tried to correct his mistake in the 2nd half by sending off Gore for something that was not even a yellow card imo.

[BigFatCoward]

21 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Are you seriously suggesting that youth team football filled with teenagers is at the same level of physicality as League Two which is still a professional league filled with seasoned pros?

Mullins' injury was unfortunate but it was an accidental clash of two players going for a 50/50 ball. It wasn't a result of a studs up high boot or anything.

It was a joke, calm the fuck down. Jesus. 

Parkinson should be in big trouble for what he said though. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by BigFatCoward

[Consigliere]

1 minute ago, BigFatCoward said:

It was a joke, calm the fuck down. Jesus. 

Chill out. I asked for clarification. You're the only one getting bent out of shape here.

[BigFatCoward]

3 hours ago, Consigliere said:

Chill out. I asked for clarification. You're the only one getting bent out of shape here.

I think anyone reading your massive over reaction to this and Tywin taking the piss a bit, can see who is the one over reacting. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

5 hours ago, Consigliere said:

Youth team football is pretty low level and probably similar in level to League 2 (division 4) but with less of the physicality. United's youth team is not even top 4 in the country. A lot of those youth players will probably end up spending their careers in the 3rd and 4th divisions. Only a very few will end up good enough to play at a higher level.

Which is why the academy system is so fundamentally fucked up.

You are basically telling 25 young people, that they have a shot at top level football, but well over 20 of those young guys are basically just there to train and play 1-2 elite prospects who might be good enough to play at the top level. And those kids pretty much sacrifice their youth for chasing that pipe dream.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

43 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I think anyone reading your massive over reaction to this and Tywin taking the piss a bit, can see who is the one over reacting. 

 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

31 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Which is why the academy system is so fundamentally fucked up.

You are basically telling 25 young people, that they have a shot at top level football, but well over 20 of those young guys are basically just there to train and play 1-2 elite prospects who might be good enough to play at the top level. And those kids pretty much sacrifice their youth for chasing that pipe dream.

Buddy, you need to see how fucked up the NCAA is if you think that's bad. 

#freedumb

Edited July 26, 2023 by Tywin et al.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

There's an entire documentary about NCAA thing and their shenanigans. So yeah, that is bad.

Those club academies have kids much younger move into their academy dorms and work and train at a pretty professional level. Those kids give up a lot. Essentially no parties growing up, with missing out a lot of those rites of passage things like getting drunk for the first time etc. Not all of them are able to equally good at juggling the training schedule with academia leading to not great highschool grades. And at the end of each year, there's a chance, that their club tells them, end of the line for you. Thanks for your time, but you're surplus to requirements. But good thing is, you know the family you have only during hollidays for the past four years or so, you can now go back to living with them.

I'll leave it to you to judge which system is more fucked.

[Consigliere]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

I think anyone reading your massive over reaction to this and Tywin taking the piss a bit, can see who is the one over reacting. 

I didn't overreact. You're the one who overreacted and are now accusing me of what you were guilty of. Talk about projection.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

There's an entire documentary about NCAA thing and their shenanigans. So yeah, that is bad.

There are many that break it down.

Quote

Those club academies have kids much younger move into their academy dorms and work and train at a pretty professional level. Those kids give up a lot. Essentially no parties growing up, with missing out a lot of those rites of passage things like getting drunk for the first time etc. Not all of them are able to equally good at juggling the training schedule with academia leading to not great highschool grades. And at the end of each year, there's a chance, that their club tells them, end of the line for you. Thanks for your time, but you're surplus to requirements. But good thing is, you know the family you have only during hollidays for the past four years or so, you can now go back to living with them.

I'll leave it to you to judge which system is more fucked.

I guess my question then is do they get paid? I was in a pipeline for American football, basketball and baseball at a pretty young age and at least with football competed at a pretty high level. I never saw a penny from any of it and had to deal with the same hard balance of sports and school. I was usually up till past 10PM doing homework because I'd get out of practice in each around 6, assuming we didn't have a game (and worse, a road game that required a long bus ride). 

[BigFatCoward]

28 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

I didn't overreact. You're the one who overreacted and are now accusing me of what you were guilty of. Talk about projection.

You put a lot of effort into defending why Man Utds juniors weren't being outclassed by Wrexham, like who gives a shit?  

[Consigliere]

1 minute ago, BigFatCoward said:

You put a lot of effort into defending why Man Utds juniors weren't being outclassed by Wrexham, like who gives a shit?  

Maybe it seemed to be a lot of effort to you but it was really nothing to me. I was simply clearing up the apparent misconception by Tywin of academy football in England being of a higher level than it actually is. This is a discussion forum after all. Like I said, Wrexham put in a decent enough showing but them beating United's U21s is hardly a shocker. If you didn't give a shit about the discussion between Tywin and myself then you were free to scroll past.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

26 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

There are many that break it down.

I guess my question then is do they get paid? I was in a pipeline for American football, basketball and baseball at a pretty young age and at least with football competed at a pretty high level. I never saw a penny from any of it and had to deal with the same hard balance of sports and school. I was usually up till past 10PM doing homework because I'd get out of practice in each around 6, assuming we didn't have a game (and worse, a road game that required a long bus ride). 

Varies/depending on several factors. age (the older closer you are to the pro contract, the better), club (bigger clubs bigger budgets), and talent (who highly you are rated). But we are talking peanuts for most parts. When you sign your first pro contracts (or rather your parent signs it for you) at age 16/17 then they start to get paid (amount still varies, elite prospect at a big club playing at the u23 (basically third or fourth tier football means pay gets decent, but at that point you've made it to the pro level (this is talking Germany, where the reserves play in the real leagues)).

A 14 y.o. at a smaller club's academy might consider himself lucky to get anything between 250-500 € a month.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

51 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

There are many that break it down.

I think it was this one.