KingAerys_II Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Rhaegar was an excellent warrior, one of the best jousters and a skilled harpist, it's canonic, I didn't write Asoiaf, but those are the words that describe him in the books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: Ser Barristan Selmy defined him as the finest man he has ever met, That is Barristan's opinion of Rhaegar, not a fact or an unanimity. 5 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: in the fever dream Jaime labels Rhaegar as rightful heir to the Iron Throne, So... his great "achievement" here is being his father's son? I don't recall anyone disputing the fact that Rhaegar was Aerys's heir. 5 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: he was considered the last dragon and defeated Ser Barristan who wished to crown Ashara as Queen of beauty and love, so he was not overrated at all I don't even understand how is this proof of his greatness? Kal-L 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 5, 2023 Author Share Posted October 5, 2023 1 minute ago, KingAerys_II said: Rhaegar was an excellent warrior, one of the best jousters and a skilled harpist, it's canonic, I didn't write Asoiaf, but those are the words that describe him in the books None of this precludes him from being overrated. He lost the first and most important battle he was in. No one cares about his harp playing. Would it help him be a good king? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Robert was as corrupted as the Unworthy, he never acknowledged about his kids parantage, that was evident, every Baratheon has black hair and blue eyes, he fathered 17 bastards and the crown was drowning in the debts. Joffrey was a sadist and now there is Ser Pounce in charge, of course Rhaegar as king would have been better than them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: That is Barristan's opinion of Rhaegar, not a fact or an unanimity. So... his great "achievement" here is being his father's son? I don't recall anyone disputing the fact that Rhaegar was Aerys's heir. I don't even understand how is this proof of his greatness? The opinion of a legend celebrated in the songs. Jaime considered Rhaegar as the true heir and Robert Unworthy. The fact that Barristan wished to crown Ashara proves that he wanted to win the tourney and Rhaegar defeated him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 At the end of the day, we can't know anything for sure until we get new material. And even then, GRRM might deliberately leave some mysteries unresolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 5, 2023 Author Share Posted October 5, 2023 10 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: Jaime considered Rhaegar as the true heir and Robert Unworthy. Because Jaime is such a great judge of character, isn't he? And a morally upstanding citizen to boot. 13 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: every Baratheon has black hair and blue eyes, Aside from the fact that there is no way to definitively prove that and that same standard of proof suggests that Sansa, Robb and Rickon are Catelyn's bastards with Edmure. 14 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: Joffrey was a sadist and now there is Ser Pounce in charge, of course Rhaegar as king would have been better than them Anyone bar Biter would be a better king than Joffrey. And again, this does not mean Rhaegar is not overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Rhaegar is overrated because I don't like him XD, there is no proof Barristan is biased Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Black thick hair and blue eyes, every Baratheon shows this feature, the seed is strong. Robert bastards: Edric Storm: Thick black hair and blue eyes. Gendry: Thick black hair and blue eyes. Mya: Thick black hair and blue eyes Bella : thick black hair and blue eyes. Every Baratheon shows these features from Argella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 5, 2023 Author Share Posted October 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: Rhaegar is overrated because I don't like him XD If you bothered to read the OP you would see I listed detailed points about why I think Rhaegar is overrated, none of which have to do with whether I like him or not. 7 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: there is no proof Barristan is biased Barristan is looking at Rhaegar through the lens of nostalgia. He is not reliable. 3 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: every Baratheon shows this feature, There is no conclusive proof of this in-universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 The description of every Baratheon : black hair and blue eyes, that's a fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 George RR Martin remarked that Renly had green blue eyes, blue eyes are important feature of House Baratheon - Dundarron, I guess, the Stormlands rejected Tommen as Lord Paramount because he was clearly a Lannister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, KingAerys_II said: Robert was as corrupted as the Unworthy, he never acknowledged about his kids parantage, that was evident, every Baratheon has black hair and blue eyes, he fathered 17 bastards and the crown was drowning in the debts. Joffrey was a sadist and now there is Ser Pounce in charge, of course Rhaegar as king would have been better than them Rhaegar as the prince plunged Westeros into a war that destroyed his house. It's possible that he'd have been better than Robert, but I doubt it tbh. He'd have definitely been a lot better than Joffrey tbf. Tommen is a question mark. He's a good kid. It depends on how he's raised, but I fear that he's not long for that world. Edited October 5, 2023 by Lee-Sensei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Aerys burned alive Lord Stark and tortured his son, then he demanded the heads of Ned and Robert, he did all the mess,the kidnapping tale was the episode of something that should have happened first or then, Aerys was too cruel and mad to keep staying in charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 The fact is that the description in the book is clear, he was excellent at everything, so it's not possible to say the opposite, then I don't understand why Barristan is a biased source, he was not Rhaegar best friend unlike Arthur Dayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willam Stark Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 8 hours ago, KingAerys_II said: Rhaegar the overrated who defeated Ser Arthur Dayne, Barristan Selmy, Lewyn Martell, and badly injured a man considered invincible in battle, skilled as a singer, intelligent, come on In joust, not combat. His feats in combat are...being killed by Robert. kissdbyfire and Craving Peaches 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, Willam Stark said: In joust, not combat. Exactly. And even then, as @Craving Peaches said above, the KG would have jousted w/ kids' gloves. 11 minutes ago, Willam Stark said: His feats in combat are...being killed by Robert. Excellent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-L Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 9 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: All KGs who potentially let him win and certainly wouldn't have been going all out because they can't hurt the Prince. While he is referring to jousting, it seems to me pretty clear that the renowned Tourney knights (especially the jousters) of that period were widely overrated. Look at Robert's odds (in people minds) at the beginning of the war, yet the man literally slew every Lords or supposed "renowned" knights he came across. What could young men such as Myles Mooton or Jon Connington who never knew war have done to be renowned ? This is ludicrous. Rhaegar and his crew had an over-inflated reputation and they were brought back to earth abut their actual worth by the rebels and their champion. Craving Peaches 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 (edited) I'm not sure that the KG let Rhaegar win. It's possible, but he could have just been a good jouster. Or he could have had one or two good runs. Jorah did at Lannisport. Edited October 6, 2023 by Lee-Sensei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 6, 2023 Author Share Posted October 6, 2023 5 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said: I'm not sure that the KG let Rhaegar win. It's possible I suspect KG would be very careful when fighting with a member of the royal family, especially after what happened with Baelor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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