James Steller Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I don’t need to go over the suspicions that people have had with the details we’ve gotten regarding the siege. Nor do I have to regale you with the counter-arguments against any theorizing. based on what we’ve been told so far, do you think the siege played out as it’s been claimed? Was it all a lie? Something in between truth and lie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 The siege of dragonstone is definitely over. No doubt in my mind about that. If I had to pick between two options -- Renly let the garrison surrender and sail off to join stannis or it was stormed and Loras isn't really hurt -- the former is the more likely but the latter seems more like GRRM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Universal Sword Donor said: The siege of dragonstone is definitely over. No doubt in my mind about that. If I had to pick between two options -- Renly let the garrison surrender and sail off to join stannis or it was stormed and Loras isn't really hurt -- the former is the more likely but the latter seems more like GRRM. Do you mean Rolland let the garrison surrender? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) I don't think Loras was hurt, or at least not as badly as is claimed. The people saying that to Cersei have a vested interest in just telling her what she wants to hear, and are not established as trustworthy, plus Mace doesn't react as though Loras was injured like that, and indeed seems to factor him in as capable of fighting (if we assume he is not counting Willas due to his injury). Edited February 6 by Craving Peaches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) The Tyrells have a history of using "replacement" battle leaders. See Garlan fighting in Renly's armour. Loras was officially the leader of the siege so his armour led the siege/storming. We do not yet know who was actually inside that armour and their injuries may allow them to be taked for Loras now even without the armour. Edited February 6 by Hippocras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 In the final chapter of ADWD we're told that Loras is still alive and relatively good health, from what Kevan tells us. So I think the story we're told in AFFC is at least in part false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) I wasn't convinced after reading AFFC, but once Dance came out, I came to the conclusions that the events happened more or less as Auranne Waters described. The last chapters in Dance take place about three months after the fall of Dragonstone. By that time, many people have come and gone between King's Landing and Dragonstone, including many of the soldiers from the West that participated in the assault. It seems to me that it would be impossible to maintain any significant foul play in that context. That conspiracy would require far too many people with different allegiances to agree on a lie, with huge risks associated and no apparent benefit for any of them. 53 minutes ago, sifth said: In the final chapter of ADWD we're told that Loras is still alive and relatively good health, from what Kevan tells us. So I think the story we're told in AFFC is at least in part false. I'm not sure what quote you are referring to. In ADWD's epilogue Kevan thinks that "Loras Tyrell is gravely wounded on Dragonstone". A few chapters before, in Cersei I, we have "At last report the Knight of Flowers had been dying on Dragonstone of wounds received whilst taking the castle. " Edited February 6 by The hairy bear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 12 minutes ago, The hairy bear said: I wasn't convinced after reading AFFC, but once Dance came out, I came to the conclusions that the events happened more or less as Auranne Waters described. The last chapters in Dance take place about three months after the fall of Dragonstone. By that time, many people have come and gone between King's Landing and Dragonstone, including many of the soldiers from the West that participated in the assault. It seems to me that it would be impossible to maintain any significant foul play in that context. That conspiracy would require far too many people with different allegiances to agree on a lie, with huge risks associated and no apparent benefit for any of them. I'm not sure what quote you are referring to. In ADWD's epilogue Kevan thinks that "Loras Tyrell is gravely wounded on Dragonstone". A few chapters before, in Cersei I, we have "At last report the Knight of Flowers had been dying on Dragonstone of wounds received whilst taking the castle. " I recall Kevan telling us that Loras was alive and looking for dragon eggs. If this is meant to be taken literally, I have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 @sifth After Harys Swift complains that the Tyrells have filled their coffers with the plunder of Dragonstone, Mace replies: "I resent your implication, Swyft," Mace Tyrell said, bristling. "No wealth was found on Dragonstone, I promise you. My son's men have searched every inch of that damp and dreary island and turned up not so much as a single gemstone or speck of gold. Nor any sign of this fabled hoard of dragon eggs." It's just that. Mace talks about his son's men, not about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 3 hours ago, The hairy bear said: @sifth After Harys Swift complains that the Tyrells have filled their coffers with the plunder of Dragonstone, Mace replies: "I resent your implication, Swyft," Mace Tyrell said, bristling. "No wealth was found on Dragonstone, I promise you. My son's men have searched every inch of that damp and dreary island and turned up not so much as a single gemstone or speck of gold. Nor any sign of this fabled hoard of dragon eggs." It's just that. Mace talks about his son's men, not about him. I see, my mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Mace also says: Quote Mace Tyrell remained unmoved. "Once Paxter Redwyne sweeps the ironmen from the seas, my sons will retake the Shields. The snows will do for Stannis, or Bolton will. As for Connington …" Do we think he is counting Willas? I don't see Willas leading troops or fighting due to his injury, but? If he is not talking about Willas, it follows the 'sons' are Garlan and Loras? KingStoneheart 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 42 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Mace also says: Do we think he is counting Willas? I don't see Willas leading troops or fighting due to his injury, but? If he is not talking about Willas, it follows the 'sons' are Garlan and Loras? Willas is still a leader even if not a fighter. I actually do think Mace is refering to him and Garlan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I think it happened as Aurane Waters claimed. Sure, he's a slippery liar, but Loras' injuries play into the danger that Margaery Tyrell is in with the Faith, so I think GRRM can be trusted on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 2/5/2024 at 5:57 PM, James Steller said: Do you mean Rolland let the garrison surrender? I meant Loras let the garrison sail off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CassDarry Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 For some reason I expected this thread to be about Stannis taking the fortress after Roberts Rebllion lol BlackLightning 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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