What is House Dayne's Religion?

[Bendric Dayne]

I think this is an interesting question because they could almost worship any of the religions in Westeros. 

1. The Lord of Light - It could be that House Dayne follow the Lord of Light. What are the origins of that religion and what are the origins of House Dayne? We know House Dayne have been in Westeros for a very long time, but we don't know from where they came. Many people speculate that they were Valyrian or shared a common ancestor with Valyrians. If true, this could suggest they came to Westeros with dragons. One of the theories out there suggests that they shared a common ancestor with the Valyrians, came to Westeros with dragons and one of their members was the Last Hero who ended the long night. And that Last Hero then founded House Dayne. It's interesting because this would make them connected to the prophecy of Azor Ahai, which, if I'm not mistaken, is a prophecy that comes from the religion of the Lord of Light. Furthermore, Ned Dayne is chosen by Beric Dondarrion to be his squire, and Beric, along with Thoros of Myr, is probably the character that has to do the most with that religion (aside from Melisandre) in all of Westeros. Did he choose Ned Dayne as his squire because the Daynes share his religion? Did Beric convert to this religion when he got betrothed to Allyria? If the Daynes were not of this religion, did Beric convert Ned (who is the Lord of the Daynes so maybe the Daynes switch religions at this point of the story at the command of their Lord)? Does this perhaps ally the Daynes to Stannis, or perhaps to Daenerys if they believe her to be the real Azor Ahai? It's interesting how the Daynes (particularly Arthur) were connected with Rhaegar who was obsessed with prophecy. If the Daynes were strong believers in the Lord of Light and the prophecy of Azor Ahai, how much could they have influenced Rhaegar who was himself obsessed with prohecies? Seems like they could have exchanged notes and reached certain conclusions together. 

2. The Seven - This one is pretty straightforward, but yeah basically it's possible they converted to the religion of the Seven whenever it was that everyone converted. I think the Martel's worship the Seven if I'm not mistaken, and the Martel's are the Dayne's liege lords which makes it likely that the Dayne's could have been forced to convert at some point. I'm assuming some lords in different times have different levels of tolerance for that sort of stuff, but yeah given that it is also like the default religion in Westeros, it is very possible that the Dayne's worship the Seven. Which still begs the question, who did they worship before that?

3. The Old Gods - This is the least likely possibility, but it is also my favorite possibility. Dayne's are classified as 'First Men' and if I'm not mistaken, all 'First Men' worshipped the Old Gods until the Andals came. Of course the Dayne's might just fall under that classification of 'First Men' simply because they have been in Westeros for a very long time and not because they actually share any characteristics with the 'First Men'. Like how a person can be classified as 'Italian' because they have an Italian last name, but might not be Italian in any way that actually matters. I.e. they don't have any Italian characteristics and don't do anything from that culture, but are classified in that group because of an ancestor or something like that. There's obviously nothing wrong with that and the classification is still valid, but it would be wrong to assume that they practice the dominant religion in Italy just because they are classified as Italian. Idk if that made sense, but either way, what I'm trying to say is that we can't assume the Dayne's religion based on their classification as 'First Men'. All that said, we just don't know what their classification as 'First Men' entails, do they only have that classification because they have been in Westeros for a very long time, or do they also have more characteristics of the 'First Men'? I think it would be cool if they worshipped the Old Gods and maybe had a Weirwood in Starfall, growing on the stone that fell from the sky. It would make their connections to Ned Stark even stronger and make more sense. And it would be cool if they had Valyrian features and perhaps even Valyrian powers, as well as 'First Men' customs and maybe even powers (like greenseeing?), all while being a House that lives in Dorne, a place far removed from the North, with different customs from the rest of Westeros. It would make the Dayne's like the most diverse House with connections to all the races in Westeros, which would explain their mysterious powers. 

Anyways, that's all from my blabbering. Really just throwing all my raw thoughts out there so sorry if this post isn't all that organized or whatever. What religion does everyone consider the Dayne's follow?

[Craving Peaches]

I think it would be explicitly mentioned if they supported the Lord of Light though, because it was a presented to us as 'new' religion in Westeros that hadn't gained much traction until recently. No other noble houses worshipped R'hllor until Melisandre came along, so it would be something unusual that I would expect to be noted.

[The Wondering Wolf]

The knightly tradition (Ser Arthur, Ser Ulrick, Ser Joffrey, Ser Davos) strongly indicates that they follow the Seven.

[KingStoneheart]

Yeah I’d say the Seven solely on the basis that we’re usually told if a house doesn’t - I.e considering there was some interaction between Ned and House Dayne it would have 100% been mentioned if they worshipped the Old Gods as this would be extremely unusual that far south

Same with the Lord of Light, did houses even worship the Lord of Light before Stannis declared himself as king?

Also, can you even become a Ser if you don’t follow the Seven?

[Bendric Dayne]

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I think it would be explicitly mentioned if they supported the Lord of Light though, because it was a presented to us as 'new' religion in Westeros that hadn't gained much traction until recently. No other noble houses worshipped R'hllor until Melisandre came along, so it would be something unusual that I would expect to be noted.

True. I think they probably worship the Seven simply because it is the most likely religion any given house would follow. However, the Daynes aren't even mentioned that much so it's possible no character has felt any reason to share the Dayne's religion. So I wouldn't rule out that they worship R'hllor. I mean, do we know what religion House Dondarrion worship? Do they worship R'hllor or did Beric convert all on his own? Either way, I maintain it's possible for Edric Dayne to have converted after his time with Beric, and as Lord of Starfall, he could convert all of House Dayne. If something like that happens, I see them joining up with Dany as they will believe her to be Azor Ahai. Or if someone in Starfall knows about Jon, they could determine that he is Azor Ahai. I don't see them joining up with Stannis though. The Daynes are too connected to the Starks and or Targaryens to not join up with them in the final books; that is if they join up with anyone at all, could be they don't really have any role to play as a House, and only Gerold Dayne and maybe Ned Dayne play some part. 

 

1 hour ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

The knightly tradition (Ser Arthur, Ser Ulrick, Ser Joffrey, Ser Davos) strongly indicates that they follow the Seven.

 

1 hour ago, KingStoneheart said:

Yeah I’d say the Seven solely on the basis that we’re usually told if a house doesn’t - I.e considering there was some interaction between Ned and House Dayne it would have 100% been mentioned if they worshipped the Old Gods as this would be extremely unusual that far south

Same with the Lord of Light, did houses even worship the Lord of Light before Stannis declared himself as king?

Also, can you even become a Ser if you don’t follow the Seven?

Also true. Although I would still ask what their religion was before. The Daynes are First Men so they were in Westeros before the religion of the Seven, so what religion did they belong to then? The Old Gods? Idk. And now that Ned Dayne has hung out so much with Beric, does he worship R'hllor? As Lord of Starfall, will he convert his House to this religion? What implications does that have for the future of House Dayne and their impact in the story? I just think that's what's interesting and that's why I brought the question up. I also didn't really know that knighthood was like an exclusive thing from the religion of the Seven, but yeah either way, with Ned Dayne hanging out with Beric, and with the Daynes being 'First Men', I still think we can ask questions about what their past religion was before the Seven and what their religion will be going forward now that their Lord has been exposed so much to the Lord of Light. Could it be that as 'First Men' they worshipped the Old Gods, then worshipped the Seven when almost everyone was forced to convert, and now will worship the Lord of Light because of their Lord? That could be interesting. 

[The Wondering Wolf]

16 minutes ago, Bendric Dayne said:

I also didn't really know that knighthood was like an exclusive thing from the religion of the Seven

The concept of knighthood was brought to Westeros by the Andels and is closely tied to the Faith of the Seven. It's part of the ceremony to stand vigil in front of the statue of the Warrior the night before you receive knighthood, and you are anoited with the seven oils. Of course you can also be knighted on the battlefield regardless of your religion. But when a house has several knights over the course of a millennium, this is a strong hint that they follow the Seven.

29 minutes ago, Bendric Dayne said:

Although I would still ask what their religion was before. The Daynes are First Men so they were in Westeros before the religion of the Seven, so what religion did they belong to then? The Old Gods?

The Children of the Forest called Dorne 'the empty land', so I think their religion wasn't really widespread there. Maybe there were various local archaic religions like the deity Benedict Blackmont worshipped.

[Potsk]

6 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Of course you can also be knighted on the battlefield regardless of your religion.

And that requires to swear in the name of the Seven, so still related to that religion

[Aebram]

6 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

The concept of knighthood was brought to Westeros by the Andels and is closely tied to the Faith of the Seven.

Was it?

I recall a post theorizing that the tradition of knighthood existed in Westeros before the Andals arrived, and the Andals adapted their religion to include it. Real-life Christian missionaries sometimes did similar things; they would introduce Christian concepts to an indigenous community by telling them things like, "Oh, your goddess Oxun of the River is really Mary, mother of Jesus," etc. Sorry, I didn't save a link to the Post. Maybe someone else remembers it?

But excuse me for wandering off-topic. We know that most First Men houses converted from the old gods to the new after the arrival of the Andals, except in the North, and a few other houses such as Blackwood. So it's entirely possible that the Daynes did the same.

There's a lot of mystery about the Daynes. They rarely appear on the pages; and two of the most prominent, Arthur and Ashara, are already (supposedly) dead before the story started. But they've appeared enough times, in enough places, to seem significant; and there are a number of curious facts attached to them, notably the sword Dawn with all its symbolism. I will be very disappointed if House Dayne doesn't play some important role in the events yet to come.

[The Wondering Wolf]

1 hour ago, Potsk said:

And that requires to swear in the name of the Seven, so still related to that religion

Fair point, although one could argue that this doesn't necessarily mean the newly-made knight worships the Seven from that point on.

1 hour ago, Aebram said:

I recall a post theorizing that the tradition of knighthood existed in Westeros before the Andals arrived, and the Andals adapted their religion to include it.

That doesn't make much sense to me considering the fact that knighthood isn't widespread in the areas which are still mostly populated by people who don't follow the Seven. If it had been a First Men thing, we would see more of it in the North.

Edited February 18 by The Wondering Wolf

[Angel Eyes]

18 hours ago, Potsk said:

And that requires to swear in the name of the Seven, so still related to that religion

Does it? Rodrik Cassel is a Ser but he isn't explicitly stated to follow the Seven.

[Willam Stark]

Faith of the Seven now, but they might have followed an other religion than the Old Gods before the Andals came.

[Potsk]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Does it? Rodrik Cassel is a Ser but he isn't explicitly stated to follow the Seven.

That's how you get knighted. Sword to one shoulder, "in the name of the Warrior I charge you to be brave," sword to other shoulder "in the name of the Mother I charge to defend the weak and innocent," et cetera.

[Universal Sword Donor]

2 hours ago, Potsk said:

That's how you get knighted. Sword to one shoulder, "in the name of the Warrior I charge you to be brave," sword to other shoulder "in the name of the Mother I charge to defend the weak and innocent," et cetera.

Right but that’s being described as a requirement to him, not him swearing to do it. And again we haven’t seen the entire process play out, merely a small portion. We know Glendon ball was dubbed but there’s no mention of swearing anything. And any knight can make a knight, so even if it’s supposed to happen it’s not a guarantee.

knighthood irl took centuries to fully adopt all the religious accoutrement. 
 

edit: forgot about beric and gendry. Obviously beric isn’t a follower of the seven after his resurrection and he knights gendry naming the gods but not specifically the seven. So we have multiple knights who have either forsworn the seven or never swore to them at all. 

Edited February 19 by Universal Sword Donor
Frippery and dipsy doodling

[Potsk]

3 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

edit: forgot about beric and gendry. Obviously beric isn’t a follower of the seven after his resurrection and he knights gendry naming the gods but not specifically the seven. So we have multiple knights who have either forsworn the seven or never swore to them at all. 

That begs the question of whether Beric's knighting of the brotherhood men is even legal. He is allowed to of course, but he didn't do it "properly" so maybe they wouldn't be seen as legitimate knights.

[Universal Sword Donor]

8 hours ago, Potsk said:

That begs the question of whether Beric's knighting of the brotherhood men is even legal. He is allowed to of course, but he didn't do it "properly" so maybe they wouldn't be seen as legitimate knights.

Any knight can make a knight. mentioned several times in book by a variety of noble characters and confirmed in grrm in the SSMs. Beric actually gets criticized by clegane for knighting the bwb bc they haven’t earned it.

[Potsk]

5 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Any knight can make a knight. mentioned several times in book by a variety of noble characters and confirmed in grrm in the SSMs. Beric actually gets criticized by clegane for knighting the bwb bc they haven’t earned it.

I know. That's what I said. "He's allowed to," but he didn't do it properly. He didn't make them swear the vows (to the Seven) that knights usually swear. In the R'hllor religion knighthood is probably not recognized, and in Westeros knighthood is an institution of the Seven religion. That puts the brotherhood's knights in a sort of limbo.

[Universal Sword Donor]

13 minutes ago, Potsk said:

I know. That's what I said. "He's allowed to," but he didn't do it properly. He didn't make them swear the vows (to the Seven) that knights usually swear. In the R'hllor religion knighthood is probably not recognized, and in Westeros knighthood is an institution of the Seven religion. That puts the brotherhood's knights in a sort of limbo.

Absolutely nothing puts their knighthood in limbo. They’re knights 

[The Wondering Wolf]

1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Absolutely nothing puts their knighthood in limbo. They’re knights 

I think that depends on what exactly is required for a proper knighting. I guess we can agree that it's not enough to just tell anyone 'You are a knight now' or randomly touch the other person with your sword. There has to be some kind of ritual which consists of touching the shoulders with a sword and saying some words (we know that from the Dunk & Egg stories). If these words are more or less formalised and include the mention of the Seven, the followers of the Faith may not consider the members of the brotherhood proper knights. If the words just have to make clear that what you do is a knighting, it may not be an issue.

[Nittanian]

Ser Bartimus also follows the old gods. He was rewarded with the Wolf's Den for having saved Wyman's life at the Trident, though we don't know if he was already a knight by then. 

Quote

"Then a long cruel winter fell," said Ser Bartimus. "The White Knife froze hard, and even the firth was icing up. The winds came howling from the north and drove them slavers inside to huddle round their fires, and whilst they warmed themselves the new king come down on them. Brandon Stark this was, Edrick Snowbeard's great-grandson, him that men called Ice Eyes. He took the Wolf's Den back, stripped the slavers naked, and gave them to the slaves he'd found chained up in the dungeons. It's said they hung their entrails in the branches of the heart tree, as an offering to the gods. The old gods, not these new ones from the south. Your Seven don't know winter, and winter don't know them."

Davos could not argue with the truth of that. From what he had seen at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, he did not care to know winter either. "What gods do you keep?" he asked the one-legged knight.

"The old ones." When Ser Bartimus grinned, he looked just like a skull. "Me and mine were here before the Manderlys. Like as not, my own forebears strung those entrails through the tree."

 

[Universal Sword Donor]

56 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

I think that depends on what exactly is required for a proper knighting. I guess we can agree that it's not enough to just tell anyone 'You are a knight now' or randomly touch the other person with your sword. There has to be some kind of ritual which consists of touching the shoulders with a sword and saying some words (we know that from the Dunk & Egg stories). If these words are more or less formalised and include the mention of the Seven, the followers of the Faith may not consider the members of the brotherhood proper knights. If the words just have to make clear that what you do is a knighting, it may not be an issue.

We do not agree on that. It’s very possible given several passages we’ve seen that hundreds of knights were made w little to no ceremony. And by denying that one of them is a knight makes you doubt the word and knighthood of the dubbing knight. The warrior would frown upon that. 
 

there might well be social doubt a persons knighthood. We see it with glendon ball and Dunk and they end up having to prove it or be vouched for. That doesn’t mean they aren’t knights, though the irony in dunks case is thick.