astarkchoice Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) Ok lotta heat for the red vipers 'grass' Given the assets available to the leader of dorne how would you have proceeded to get revenge? Wel assume the low count of 15k troops for dorne is correct. Now his current plan has shifted as often as ilyrios. How would you have proceeded A) soon after trident you hear of your uncle, sister and neice and nephews fate? B ) pre build up to wot5k lets say ned is just announced as hand C) you delay like doran and the red wedding has occured....how does your plan differ if at all? Edited February 24 by astarkchoice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I would have switched up the missions he gave Oberyn and Quentyn. I’d send the strong handsome guy, who knows the east and has connections there to meet with Dany and my ignorant son who looks like a frog to KL, so my enemies think Dorn is weak. astarkchoice, Jaenara Belarys, Angel Eyes and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sword Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Right after it happens, you'd probably want to see how it settles out before doing anything rash. A couple selective killings to make it interesting in KL. I'm sure the Red Viper is capable of infiltration and he likes his poison. Building alliances would be crucial. I'd try and find disgruntled Houses where you can see a division. Dorne is too weak to instigate war. So Doran's patience was probably for the best. astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 2 hours ago, astarkchoice said: Given the assets available to the leader of dorne how would you have proceeded to get revenge? Assuming I am in Doran's body, kill myself. No more gout pain + Oberyn does revenge better. Edited February 23 by Craving Peaches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Are morals off like for the Ironborn one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 9 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Are morals off like for the Ironborn one? Always Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingStoneheart Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 So funnily enough I just listened to the Captain of the Guards today and I genuinely don’t think Tyene’s request is that crazy. The Dornish have held their own MANY a time and especially now a days they 100% would. If they crowned Myrcella, they would not need to go to war, just defend. Anyway, if I was Doran I would have started building my army after Robert’a Rebellion and seen how it played out. Then seen what happened Doran obviously is playing some game but I wouldn’t have his patience and would have folded and some point after Elia was killed gone to war most likely astarkchoice and Jaenara Belarys 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 A.) If starting after Robert's Rebellion, start building up forces after losses taken during the war. Keep a watch on Viserys and Daenerys Targaryen, the former is supposed to be my goodson after all, wouldn't want him to a liability. If fostering him is not an option, arrange for my daughter Arianne to meet him overseas at the most and start up correspondence at the least. A lot of what I would do is detailed in this blog post. https://warsandpoliticsoficeandfire.wordpress.com/2016/03/11/the-windblown-grass-doran-martell/ astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 9 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: A.) If starting after Robert's Rebellion, start building up forces after losses taken during the war. Keep a watch on Viserys and Daenerys Targaryen, the former is supposed to be my goodson after all, wouldn't want him to a liability. If fostering him is not an option, arrange for my daughter Arianne to meet him overseas at the most and start up correspondence at the least. A lot of what I would do is detailed in this blog post. https://warsandpoliticsoficeandfire.wordpress.com/2016/03/11/the-windblown-grass-doran-martell/ Excellent post cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 (edited) Yeah the issue id say about acting right after roberts rebellion is thus. A few years earlier the viper has killed a yornwood and dorans son hasnt been there long enough as ward to mend those fences, the yornwoods keep being essential to dornes defences. Then as we know the royalist fleet is smashed in a storm and at some point just a few years later wheb robert is securing the realm with 'his issuse' the viper cripples willas estranging their most critical targ loyalist ally !!! AND his wife puts her foot down about his daughter being a ward in the free cities and meeting viserys to grant any attemt to crown him some credibility.! Add in for some other extra unkown reason ( cough varys and ilyrio) the normaly meddlesome free cities arent interested in westeros or a heir to its throne at all. So a)isnt doable unless word reaches me of kl right after its sack. Id send the dornish forced north to reinforce the siege of storms end intermingle mine with the reachs massive host. When ned arrived have the viper kill him to provoke the northern host to attack AND/OR have standing orders for various lords to start duels with the northerner and start escalstong skirmishes! Force a battle 'they are attacking us ' and drve them off hopefully with ned dead..stannis and the onion knight will now starve. Reach out to the new lord of the iron isles balon. Hipefully when robert recoverd hel hear his brother starved to death, ned is dead or attacked, storms end is taken and the reach/dornish targ loyalists won a huge battle! OR have kl watches and when tywin leaves it after settling cersei in have the nost obvious roads set up with an ambush by the viper with hotah and your elite forces, add mumurs and paod essosi assasins to add to the confusion...tywin must die then the mountain later is easy! 2)while.robb is smashing the lannisters in the riverlands ise the cloak of the allaince tyrion set up to march into the westerlands (as " reinforcements") then devestate lannisport! Send word to robb adnedmure we will back you BUT tywin, loch and the mountain is comming and he is ours 3)use the viper AND his daughters . Send the vuper to kill tywin as i suspect doran planned ( then when accused he gets the mountain in trial which he has trained for with spear and prepped posion for!) Tyene is supposedly a master of posions so have her help get tywin and slip it on the wine of any other oppertune targets esp if possible a slow acting one tk put gregor off his game.fight night! Nymeria is supposedly beautiful an charming, and alway has s blade. The prefect woman to emnd cerie! Edited February 24 by astarkchoice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 If I was betrothing my daughter to Viserys, I'd have channelled a lot of money to my agents in the East, and/or the Iron Bank, to ensure that Dany and Viserys were well-guarded, and well-guided, and that they enjoyed a standard of living appropriate to their station. Allowing my daughter's intended husband to be mocked as "the beggar king" is pretty stupid. Then, I'd be looking for every opportunity to undermine the rule of King Robert. So, yes, I'd have to swallow whatever cock and bull story that Jon Arryn told me, about the deaths of Elia and her children, but I'd be looking to gradually build up Dornish military strength. I'd be reaching out to groups like the Golden Company to sound them out about the possibility of an invasion. I'd want to put out feelers to the Tyrells, and the other Targaryen loyalists, about the prospects of backing a restoration. I'd also be reaching out to the Ironborn, suggesting backing for their indpendence, and seizing all the land they wished in the West, in return for the aid of their fleet, in due course. Jaenara Belarys and astarkchoice 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, SeanF said: If I was betrothing my daughter to Viserys, I'd have channelled a lot of money to my agents in the East, and/or the Iron Bank, to ensure that Dany and Viserys were well-guarded, and well-guided, and that they enjoyed a standard of living appropriate to their station. Allowing my daughter's intended husband to be mocked as "the beggar king" is pretty stupid. Then, I'd be looking for every opportunity to undermine the rule of King Robert. So, yes, I'd have to swallow whatever cock and bull story that Jon Arryn told me, about the deaths of Elia and her children, but I'd be looking to gradually build up Dornish military strength. I'd be reaching out to groups like the Golden Company to sound them out about the possibility of an invasion. I'd want to put out feelers to the Tyrells, and the other Targaryen loyalists, about the prospects of backing a restoration. I'd also be reaching out to the Ironborn, suggesting backing for their indpendence, and seizing all the land they wished in the West, in return for the aid of their fleet, in due course. I've always wondered what sort of cock and bull story Jon Arryn cooked up, including the return of bones, because we all know returning bones always reduces hostilities. As far as Viserys and Arianne was concerned, I've also wondered why Doran gave up on him so early, unless this was a retcon by GRRM. Jaenara Belarys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 14 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: I've always wondered what sort of cock and bull story Jon Arryn cooked up, including the return of bones, because we all know returning bones always reduces hostilities. As far as Viserys and Arianne was concerned, I've also wondered why Doran gave up on him so early, unless this was a retcon by GRRM. Id say it was a mix of things Roberts regime looked stronger and stronger and viserys grew older he came across as less a kjng in exile but an amusing beggar Ilyrio and varys may have sabotaged visery rep among the elite in essos Dorans wife forbidding him makimg his daughter a ward in essos so viserys and her could be publicly seen linked pretty much ended any serious chance it had Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 44 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: I've always wondered what sort of cock and bull story Jon Arryn cooked up, including the return of bones, because we all know returning bones always reduces hostilities. As far as Viserys and Arianne was concerned, I've also wondered why Doran gave up on him so early, unless this was a retcon by GRRM. Probably the rubbish spouted by Yandel, that Elia was so maddened by grief that she took her childrens' lives and her own. astarkchoice, Jaenara Belarys and Aldarion 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) If I am Doran I will send more agents of mine to work with Daenerys and tell her that the fact they are working for Doran is a secret for now, because they don't want to be destroyed by the king of westeros. And reveal how Dorne did help her and her brother while trying to avoid the wrath of the Iron Throne. Also explain how Viserys behaving as he did made them reconsider of helping him more. Talk about Elia Martel and what Tywin did to the Targyaryen/martell children. With my agents aiding Daenerys since the second book events, she will be more positively predisposed to an alliance. Considering her dragons, it is worth investing more. I will also focus on expanding my military strength in the years of peace and yes I would agree to go along with Jon Arryn. A bit of a hindsight play in part, but have Oberyn poison Littlefinger and Tyrion after Stannis kills Renly. Then have Oberyn leave King's landing and send a different emissary. Littlefinger helped the Tyrell - Lannister alliance and without him the realm would be more divided at that point. Stannis taking Kingslanding with significant casualties while the Lannister and reach armies remain at play would weaken the realm. Then Oberyn and dornishmen guard is sent to Essos to join with Daenerys. A bit like Varys taking out rivals. Plus, you got Myrcella, and so you can play this as a card when Stannis invades if you wish. Which would entice other players to an alliance and marriage. Propose the alliance with Daenerys earlier and have Oberyn pitch the marriage and advertise Quentin's qualities as the way for her to return after gaining the Unsullied army. Before she is too entangled in the messes in Essos. Then if she does get involved and gains more followers, she will be tied with Dorne. And make a direct play for the golden company. Eventually send Oberyn there to have him take a high position as a leader in Daenery's army. Try to win over Barristan. Try to have all westerosi exiles including Jorah and Golden company, influence Daenerys to use her dragons to return. Also explain how you got Myrcella a a card. Have Oberyn will try to gain more men of Daenerys followers to be under his leadership. Explain to Arianne a small part of what you are doing so she doesn't interfere telling her to tell none and promising her to succeed as ruler of Dorne. So, I just followed parts of Doran's plan, prioritizing revenge a bit less and more the longer game. If you were to prioritise revenge more, have Oberyn poison Tywin with costipation killing poison and leave to follow the plan I explained. Have Dornishmen assassins kill the mountain. Oberyn is worth too much to fight the mountain in a battle to the death. Edited February 25 by Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 2/23/2024 at 12:33 PM, sifth said: I would have switched up the missions he gave Oberyn and Quentyn. I’d send the strong handsome guy, who knows the east and has connections there to meet with Dany and my ignorant son who looks like a frog to KL, so my enemies think Dorn is weak. Hard to argue against this plan, given what we know of Quentyn's results and Oberyn's results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 2/23/2024 at 12:33 PM, sifth said: I would have switched up the missions he gave Oberyn and Quentyn. I’d send the strong handsome guy, who knows the east and has connections there to meet with Dany and my ignorant son who looks like a frog to KL, so my enemies think Dorne is weak. If there's anything Oberyn understood, it was image politics. In his party to King's Landing he brings lords, ladies, and heirs from all across Dorne, who had interests in the political games of Westeros and whose reputations dwarfed Tyrion's own party. Contrast Quentyn's green band of not-so-merry men who were pretty much all from Yronwood: Cletus, Archibald, Gerris Drinkwater, the dead maester, and pretty much showed that the only one supporting Doran was House Yronwood. Jaenara Belarys and Aldarion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 40 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: If there's anything Oberyn understood, it was image politics. In his party to King's Landing he brings lords, ladies, and heirs from all across Dorne, who had interests in the political games of Westeros and whose reputations dwarfed Tyrion's own party. Contrast Quentyn's green band of not-so-merry men who were pretty much all from Yronwood: Cletus, Archibald, Gerris Drinkwater, the dead maester, and pretty much showed that the only one supporting Doran was House Yronwood. I don’t recall Oberyns friends really having much effect at KL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CassDarry Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Imprison Jon Arryn, and demand Tywin or Jon's a gonna.....but House Yronwood is concerning, they may or may not be loyal at the time. Probably I'll send Oberyn to Essos and bring Viserys and Dany to Dorne, maybe Water Gardens. Let the King try and cross the desert. astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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