And an altogether different take on fantasy

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Wert - for all of the great debate and information-tossing that can go on online, particularly between nerds, there is a still-distressing amount of people picking up their ball and going home when someone disagrees. Most of the time, people put up controversial (or not) arguments to spark a debate. Sometimes, people do so to get a reaction of 'How did I never think of that? You're so right, you're amazing!' For some reason, these people get upset when not only do they not get that, they get 'No, you're wrong, and here are 27 reasons why.'

[Nex]

What a pathetic jerk, acting like a martyr because he isn't capable of taking criticism and participating in discussion

it's pretty clear that my motivation for contributing to the online fantasy scene is going to dry up pretty quickly. As a result, I've decided that from now on I won't write about fantasy. At all. I won't review any books, I won't review any films, I won't review any TV and I won't share any ideas

Great! I shall offer my gratitude to all Old Gods of Westeros if in future we are spared from his "contributions"

[Crazydog7]

This guy is just an insecure armchair quarterback.

For example when he says “Some of Martian’s Conservative readers don’t like to hear his political views around election time†he is actually just talking about himself. Idiots like this always feel the need to belong to an oppressed silent majority. He is also a good illustration of the internet in general; at least before the internet people knew how to keep their opinions to themselves. Now every moron can start their very own blog.

Personally I always thought that GRRM stumping for Kerry was just funny. The guy had to have been the worst candidate the Democrats have fielded ever since they put good old Michel D. in the top of a tank.

Martian is good fantasy the best fantasy I have ever read. I am even slightly angery with him because whenever I try to go back to someone I used to love Brooks, Eldings, Terry P. I can’t do it. I get sick and tried of reading stories where every stable boy and innkeepers daughter is actually the last heir of a once noble house and they must unite the land and take back the throne…..blah blah.

Martian looks beyond all that and he will always have my respect.

[Ran]

I am sure you mean Martin. Heh.

[Marcelo Rebelo Firqoralas]

I am sure you mean Martin. Heh.

Maybe he knows something we don't, eh?

[Xray the Enforcer]

Maybe he knows something we don't, eh?

That's why we're sheeple! It's the Martian Mind-Control mu radiation!

[Stubby]

That's why we're sheeple! It's the Martian Mind-Control mubaa radiation!

Fixed that for you.

[Red Templar]

Apparently McC has mistaken robust debate for a vindictive hate campaign and has presented himself as a martyr set upon by rabid GRRM fans rather than, as actually is the case, someone who didn't put very much thought into their argument and was taken by surprise when he was called on it and unable to provide any kind of response using specific examples and sources which he'd actually read.

Is this what passes for debate these days?

Unfortunately, I think this is the rule rather than the exception.

[lokisnow]

I ran across this article on sff.net and thought it was an interesting, and real, analysis of the division between fantasy/scifi and literary fiction.

http://www.sff.net/people/DTruesdale/wolverton1.htp

As for McCalmont, he potentially has a fascinating thesis, unfortunately his own biases are preventing him from shaping and adapting it adequately since his frame of reference is so incomplete regarding the genre he's criticizing. I've found it deliciously ironic that the authoritarian way he states and 'defends' his opinions is exactly the sort of tacit acceptance of authoritarianism he accuses GRRM of.

[Zap Rowsdower]

OK, all this discussion about Gordon Brown and fantasy novels inspired me to write this brief Gordon Brown centered story. When writing it, I tried to imagine what Jonathan McCalmont felt when he read fantasy and imagined Gordon Brown as judge, jury an executioner.

I had a hard time conveying that Gordon Brown was Scottish. I did my best, but I think I may have failed spectacularly.

Gordon Brown: The Devil's Bountyhunter.

The rays of the sun were, of course, very hot. More metaphorically, the suns rays fell like the blows of a hammer, battering away all resistance. A mirage-shimmer of heat cloaked the desert provinces Southwestern Britain. The air seemed to quiver under radiant heat- or perhaps it was fear? For it was within the last three weeks that the Iron Lady, Margaret Thatcher, and her ruthless band of nogoodniks, had terrorized the countryside, looting and pillaging as they went.

If Thatcher and her rogues had merely been an ordinary band of crooks, then the hardy British peasant, so long accustomed to hardship and instability, could have shrugged off the Iron Lady’s depredations with equanimity. But Thatcher and her followers were in a class all their own. You see, Thatcher and her Tories were vampires! Evil vampires! Thatcher and her followers had bartered away their immortal souls in a Devil’s bargain. In return for their souls they had gained everlasting life on Earth, but only at the cost of consuming blood! Human blood!!!

Like a host of conservative-minded locusts, Thatcher’s “Torpires†would descend upon a helpless town and brain it dry! They’d rip off the heads of babies and lap up the blood that flowed from the neck stump!

The countryside was gripped by supernatural fear! If nothing was done soon, then Thatcher would turn all of England into a graveyard. John Bull, knew this and took action accordingly. When the peasants of his village met to discuss the raging vampire problem at the next council meeting, John Bull stood and voiced his suggestion.

“I say,†said John Bull, “we hire Gordon Brown to kick Thatcher’s ass!â€

Everyone gasped.

“Not Gordon Brown!†cried the crowd in stunned horror.

“He’ll tear us apart faster than Thatcher!â€

“He’s got a mean streak a mile wide!â€

“He’d sooner kill us than look at us!â€

“I know,†said John Bull. “But it’s the only chance we have.â€

Suddenly Gordon Brown was there, glaring with a raptor gaze at the assembled crowd. He stood nearly ten feet tall with a barrel chest and bowlegs. His arms were like tree trunks and his legs were like even bigger tree trunks. His tartan kilt swirled ominously in the wind.

“Soe, yea wunt mi te keel Thatcher fer yea,†Brown spat in his thick Scottish accent.

John Bull doffed his sombrero respectfully. “Si Señor,†he whispered in a fearful whisper. John Bull thrust his hand into his pocket and withdrew some large coins. “We’re willing to pay you- three pounds!†The crowd gasped at the exorbitant amount- three pounds was more money than the entire township earned in a decade!

With a fierce Scottish scowl that could have curdled milk, Brown grunted in dissatisfaction. John Bull wrung his sombrero fearfully.

“Yea oll noe mi,†Brown finally announced, his voice was like a bark of Scottish thunder. “Noe howe aye earn a livin’. Aye’ll katch this bird fer yea, but it ain’t gonna be easy. Bad Tory. Knot like goin’ down te the pond an’ chasin’ bluegills and tommycocks. Ths Tory, swallow yea whole. No shakin’, no tenderizin’, down yea goe. An we gotta de it quick, that’ll bring back yer tourists, put oll yer businesses on a payin’ basis. But it’s not a’gonna be pleasnt. Aye value me neck a lot moore than three pounds, Bull. Aye’ll find him fer three, but I’ll katch him, and keel him, fer ten. But yea gotta make up yer minds. If’n yea want to stay aloive, then ante up. If yea wanna play it cheap, be on the dole the whole winter. I dun’t want noe volunteers, I dun’t want no mates, ther’s too many captains on this island. Ten pounds fer me by meself. Fer that yea get the head, the tail, the whole damn thing.â€

In the end, John Bull and the town ponied up the dough and Gordon Brown began his hunt for Margaret Thatcher.

Five minutes later Gordon Brown found Thatcher and her “Torpires†holed up in an abandoned brothel. Gordon Brown crashed through the side of the brothel, leaving a Gordon Brown based holed in the side of the building.

The “Torpires†tried to stand up and tackle him but before they could Brown hacked off their heads with a machete. Soon, only Brown and Thatcher herself was left standing.

Brown swung on the chandelier and barreled into Thatcher with the power of a runaway locomotive.

Knowing she was outmatched, Thatcher used her black magic to summon an earthquake that split the ground into a bottomless crevasse. With an evil sneer, Thatcher jumped into the crack in her bid to escape, but Brown was not so easily foiled. With a bellow that shook the mountains themselves, Brown hurled himself after Thatcher.

“Devil witch woman, I’ll ride you down to Hell!†hollered brown as he emptied clip after clip of bullets into the Iron Lady’s face.

The End.

[The Wolf Maid]

That was brilliant, Zap. He reminds me of some other fantasy character, but I must be imagining things.

[Mad Monkey]

That was brilliant, Zap. He reminds me of some other fantasy character, but I must be imagining things.

Ooh... ooh... Captain Kirk? Stephen Seagal?

[The Wolf Maid]

Ooh... ooh... Captain Kirk? Stephen Seagal?

And then some.

...wait, Stephen Seagal is a fantasy character? No wonder.

[Deornoth]

So it's clear that I won't ever write about popular fantasy again because, frankly, the fans are wretched and I don't want them reading my words

I think what he meant to say was, "I'm pissy because people aren't agreeing with me"

Poor little lamb, someone give him his toys back, they've been thrown out of the pram...

[Zahir al Daoud]

Here is what he says upon closing the whole topic:

I think that I really don't care about this issue anymore and won't be responding to any further posts about it.

Twerp.

[Ser Greguh]

Here is what he says upon closing the whole topic:

I think that I really don't care about this issue anymore and won't be responding to any further posts about it.

Twerp.

I actually laughed out loud upon reading that.

Translation: "I'm getting my ass handed to me and am too pompous to admit that I was wrong, so I'm going to run away and cry in a corner for a while."

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

What I thought was interesting was his statement that he called GRRM fans (as a group, of course, not as individuals) sheep like because they are. And his further insistence that this was in good faith.

[Ser Greguh]

What I thought was interesting was his statement that he called GRRM fans (as a group, of course, not as individuals) sheep like because they are. And his further insistence that this was in good faith.

He tried a quick goalpost shift on that. He initially called fans "sheep-like" but then tried to redefine that into "herd-like," conflating belonging to a group with passivity. I would agree with "herd-like" to a certain extent - which is to say, there are a herd of us that believe that GRRM's books are very well-done and present familiar fantasy tropes in a challenging and entertaing context. "Sheep-like" is a different adjective altogether.

[williamjm]

He tried a quick goalpost shift on that. He initially called fans "sheep-like" but then tried to redefine that into "herd-like," conflating belonging to a group with passivity. I would agree with "herd-like" to a certain extent - which is to say, there are a herd of us that believe that GRRM's books are very well-done and present familiar fantasy tropes in a challenging and entertaing context. "Sheep-like" is a different adjective altogether.

The herd-like adjective would be a bit of a pointless definition - it would be essentially saying that GRRM's fan like GRRM's books, which isn't a big insight.

[Galactus]

Someone should report him to fandom wank.

Really.