Lost season 4.1.b.2

[Myrddin]

Is the best way to tell time in the flash forwards by wathcing by Jack's wiskers?

Jack's POV - full unruly beard

Hurley's POV - a little more scruff than the usual Island Jack

Sayid's POV - No Jack

Kate's POV - Clean shaven Jack

So, are the flash forwards in reverse order, moving toward the actual rescue?

[Guest Raidne]

Didn't Kate commit her crimes across several different States? She blew up her father in Iowa, but committed the bank robbery somewhere else and stole cars in other locations. I'm hazy on US law, but doesn't that mean the Federal justice system takes over and she gets tried wherever?

That's the best explanation I've got too. Even then, it should be tried in the district of the crime she committed, or at least one of them, but let's just say that her lawyer filed a motion for transfer to her home district on the basis of her and everyone else's convenience, and the judge was inclined to grant it. It can happen.

I'm an idiot about forgetting that Juliet and Desmond can't be part of the 6. Good to know that Aaron doesn't count. So there's two more. I'd guess Sun & Jin. Still, IMO, that leaves us with two people who supposedly survived the crash that are going to die on their way back based on the 8 who survived the crash. They can't get into actual deaths without raising all kinds of unwanted questions that require mentioning more characters that almost undoubtedly stay on the island, and I don't think they'd bother faking two deaths, because they'd just say they did in the crash, right? Also, something happens with Claire that really affects Jack (plus Desmond's vision), so I'd guess she dies on her way off the island. Leaving one remaining person...Sawyer? Frogurt? Who else is there? Locke, Rose, and Bernard are all I've got, and whichever one of Scott/Steve isn't actually dead.

Hey, by the way, where did all of the Others go? Back to their other camp?

[Werthead]

Hey, by the way, where did all of the Others go? Back to their other camp?

Ben sent them to the 'The Temple'. Apparently they would have figured into the opening episodes, but Nestor Carbonell who plays Richard Alpert was on some other show, so they put them on hold until he could come back. With his show cancelled, it looks like he'll be back in the last five episodes, possibly along with Cindy, the kids and the other Others. Most of the other named Others got killed in the Season 3 finale.

As for the 815 survivors, that's a good point. Of the named characters loads are dead (Shannon, Boone, Charlie, one of the Stevescott duo, Nikki & Paulo, Ana-Lucia, Libby, Eko, Doc Artz). Michael and Walt presumably don't count since they're off the Island already. I don't see Locke or Rose (and by extension Bernard) going back to civilisation either, because of Locke and Rose's medical conditions if nothing else. That really only leaves the candidates for the remaining members of the O6 to be Claire, Sawyer, Cindy, Frogurt, that guy who was in two Season 1 eps and hasn't been seen since (the guy with the glasses who argued with Jack on the golf course), Jin or Sun, or one of the random survivors. And you'd imagine that Aaron would still be with Claire if it was her, or that Sawyer would have come to the trial or at least been involved with the situation somehow.

[Mack Kilimaro]

Could be either. I'd completely forgotten the fact that the producers kept saying that Libby was going to be on the show into Season 3 and would have her own flashbacks, then they changed her mind and killed her apparently because to make it more surprising. Of course, the real reason is that they decided that Libby would be in Desmond's flashback and they'd have to kill her off sharpish before Desmond joined the main case at the end of Season 2 and recognised her.

Of course, the real real reason is that the actress got hit with the DUI, right?

I thought that was a pretty good episode. I'm not really sure what's up with these boat people. I agree with whoever noted that the card game that Charlotte and Daniel were playing was more like some kind of memory game. Maybe he has some kind of short-term memory problem, which I guess would explain why he has a "caretaker" out in the real world or whatever. That was a nice moment though, gave a little character to both of them without going crazy about it.

As to anything else that's going on, who knows. I had the hunch about mid-episode that the son was going to turn out to be Aaron (and was positive as soon as I saw the hair), but what that portends about Claire's fate (and indeed anybody else that's not part of the Oceanic Six) I really couldn't say. It's hard to imagine Claire giving up the kid willingly after all she's been through. If she doesn't get killed or kidnapped before Aaron gets taken I will be very shocked.

On the fact that 8 were said to have survived the crash, maybe their story does incorporate some of the on-island deaths and there could still have been six when they were rescued but a couple died, from drowning, illness or who knows what.

[Guest Raidne]

On the fact that 8 were said to have survived the crash, maybe their story does incorporate some of the on-island deaths and there could still have been six when they were rescued but a couple died, from drowning, illness or who knows what.

Maybe, but except for Boone, they're pretty hard to explain without reference to other people. And if you're going to lie, easiest to have them die in the crash, and not have two live.

If there were more than 6 when they were rescued, I think they'd be the Oceanic 8, or whatever, still, because it's the settlement that makes them one of the group, and they would have gotten the settlement.

I'm guessing that Jack has to make some kind of utilitarian "seven people in a lifeboat that will only float six" kind of decision, and can't live with it. I mean, not exactly that (since that's possible), but the kind of thing where rescuing one person would entail putting everyone else in mortal danger. If so, nice foreshadowing on that from last season when he let Ben give the fake kill order.

[DivisionByZero]

Still, IMO, that leaves us with two people who supposedly survived the crash that are going to die on their way back based on the 8 who survived the crash.

I might be misremembering, but didn't Jack's story say that 8 survived the crash and Kate saved some of them, but couldn't do anything for two of them?

I interpretted it as just trying to add some realism to the lie. Having 8 survive the crash, but two then die of injuries sounds a little more complex, and so maybe more real, than "6 suvived the crash, everyone else was a goner."

I don't know. My main point is that I don't think the extra two people in Jack's story refer to any actual Lostie, living or dead.

[Commodore]

If the writers have this planned out chronologically from start to finish, they can avoid the seeming contradictions people have brought up here. If they are just winging it, they are gonna get themselves into trouble.

Claire may have cared about Charlie, but she loved him like she might love a puppy. Charlie was a nice guy, but he was pathetic. Scrawny, emotional, unstable, prone to addiction. Not the qualities that endear a man to a woman. She never respected him, never longed for him. She probably felt some obligation to love him based on all the sacrifices he had made for her. Now that he is gone, that guilt she feels is lifted.

[SquireThomas]

Ben sent them to the 'The Temple'. Apparently they would have figured into the opening episodes, but Nestor Carbonell who plays Richard Alpert was on some other show, so they put them on hold until he could come back. With his show cancelled, it looks like he'll be back in the last five episodes, possibly along with Cindy, the kids and the other Others. Most of the other named Others got killed in the Season 3 finale.

Makes me wonder where the Mighty Mikhael is. If I'm not misremembering, he just swam off after he bombed Charlie, right? Presumably he's still creeping around somewhere.

[The Iceman of the North]

I didn't think this episode was quite up to the standards of the first episodes of this season. The "Aaron was the baby" thingy was quite obvious, even I assumed he was the one as soon as the baby was mentioned.

[Red Templar]

Makes me wonder where the Mighty Mikhael is. If I'm not misremembering, he just swam off after he bombed Charlie, right? Presumably he's still creeping around somewhere.

Patchy was holding onto the grenade when it blew up. However, I wouldn't put it past him to actually survive that blast. Perhaps he's LOST's version of a recurring red-shirt?

[Analu]

My take: Claire isn't dead. She's one of possibly many still stuck back on the island. If Claire were dead, I think Jack would suck it up and be a part of Aaron's life, for Aaron's sake. But Jack knows that Claire is still alive, and seeing her baby would be too much of a mindf*ck because it would be a huge reminder of the lie he is living.

That's another possibility. Could be why he wants to get back to the Island so badly, too.

Claire may have cared about Charlie, but she loved him like she might love a puppy. Charlie was a nice guy, but he was pathetic. Scrawny, emotional, unstable, prone to addiction. Not the qualities that endear a man to a woman. She never respected him, never longed for him. She probably felt some obligation to love him based on all the sacrifices he had made for her. Now that he is gone, that guilt she feels is lifted.

I don't think you're giving puppies enough credit, but agree with everything else. Really, almost everything Charlie represented would've repelled most women (or at least the ones I know): clingy, issues with addiction, physically weak, emotionally erratic, etc. And maybe I'm forgetting, but Claire never actually told Charlie or anyone for that matter that she loved him, did she? So her upbeat demeanor shouldn't be that surprising.

So from what I'm reading, are most people assuming that last seasons final scene between Jack and Kate occurred sometime in the future after last night's episode? Because I'm of the opinion that it occurred beforehand, based on Kate's reaction when her lawyer wanted to bring Jack in to testify. She didn't want anything to do with him at that time. Could that be because he was a drunken mess as shown in last seasons ep? And when she saw that he had cleaned himself up, she invited him over for dinner in the garage and was open towards a possible relationship? Just throwing that out there. (I should note, I'm not an avid fan of the show, and am probably the least knowledgable poster here pertaining to it, so if I'm saying something painfully stupid.... be gentle)

[Werthead]

If the writers have this planned out chronologically from start to finish, they can avoid the seeming contradictions people have brought up here. If they are just winging it, they are gonna get themselves into trouble.

The writers now have an outline that covers the remaining 40-odd episodes of the series, and a more detailed one for this season so that all the flashforwards make sense (which they're rejigging because they've lost three episodes this year to the strike).

[Starkess]

Of course, the real real reason is that the actress got hit with the DUI, right?

That was the actress who played Ana Lucía. I don't think many people really missed her anyway.

[Shryke]

That's another possibility. Could be why he wants to get back to the Island so badly, too.

I don't think you're giving puppies enough credit, but agree with everything else. Really, almost everything Charlie represented would've repelled most women (or at least the ones I know): clingy, issues with addiction, physically weak, emotionally erratic, etc. And maybe I'm forgetting, but Claire never actually told Charlie or anyone for that matter that she loved him, did she? So her upbeat demeanor shouldn't be that surprising.

So from what I'm reading, are most people assuming that last seasons final scene between Jack and Kate occurred sometime in the future after last night's episode? Because I'm of the opinion that it occurred beforehand, based on Kate's reaction when her lawyer wanted to bring Jack in to testify. She didn't want anything to do with him at that time. Could that be because he was a drunken mess as shown in last seasons ep? And when she saw that he had cleaned himself up, she invited him over for dinner in the garage and was open towards a possible relationship? Just throwing that out there. (I should note, I'm not an avid fan of the show, and am probably the least knowledgable poster here pertaining to it, so if I'm saying something painfully stupid.... be gentle)

No. The S3 Flash Forward has Jack as a drunken, unshaved mess sometime in mid 2007. All the flash backs so far take place before that.

[Fatuous]

So from what I'm reading, are most people assuming that last seasons final scene between Jack and Kate occurred sometime in the future after last night's episode? Because I'm of the opinion that it occurred beforehand, based on Kate's reaction when her lawyer wanted to bring Jack in to testify. She didn't want anything to do with him at that time. Could that be because he was a drunken mess as shown in last seasons ep? And when she saw that he had cleaned himself up, she invited him over for dinner in the garage and was open towards a possible relationship? Just throwing that out there. (I should note, I'm not an avid fan of the show, and am probably the least knowledgable poster here pertaining to it, so if I'm saying something painfully stupid.... be gentle)

There a two Jackisms that are being used to date the Flashforwards, 1 the beard and 2 the alcohol intake. While it's real easy to become clean shaven {ie shave}, no lawyer in the world would bring in an alcoholic as a character witness.

The reason Kate really didn't want Jack on the stand is pretty simple; Jack was under oath, sworn to tell the truth to a court of law and he just lied his ass off about everything. I would say that this felony was the start of Jack's descent and Kate wanted to protect Jack from it.

[burnt hound]

Libby got a DUI too. Bye Libby!

[Analu]

No. The S3 Flash Forward has Jack as a drunken, unshaved mess sometime in mid 2007. All the flash backs so far take place before that.

There a two Jackisms that are being used to date the Flashforwards, 1 the beard and 2 the alcohol intake. While it's real easy to become clean shaven {ie shave}, no lawyer in the world would bring in an alcoholic as a character witness.

The reason Kate really didn't want Jack on the stand is pretty simple; Jack was under oath, sworn to tell the truth to a court of law and he just lied his ass off about everything. I would say that this felony was the start of Jack's descent and Kate wanted to protect Jack from it.

Well, allrighty then. I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing that up, guys

[The Iceman of the North]

That was the actress who played Ana Lucía. I don't think many people really missed her anyway.

They both got hit with a DUI within a rather short time.

[Werthead]

They were arrested at the same time. Watros was following Rodriguez back from a party and they both got pulled over by the cops*

However:

SPOILER: Lost

Watros is back in flashbacks in episodes 6 and 8, I believe, which would seem to rule out the DUI=getting fired theory. Also, both Lily and Andrews I belive got speeding fines and they're both still on the show.

* Or that was the story at the time. Wikipedia reports that they were actually arrested seperately, but at the same time, the following day.

[aeu]

I might be misremembering, but didn't Jack's story say that 8 survived the crash and Kate saved some of them, but couldn't do anything for two of them?

I interpretted it as just trying to add some realism to the lie. Having 8 survive the crash, but two then die of injuries sounds a little more complex, and so maybe more real, than "6 suvived the crash, everyone else was a goner."

I don't know. My main point is that I don't think the extra two people in Jack's story refer to any actual Lostie, living or dead.

I was actually rewatching the start and noticed the same thing. I guess I wasn't paying attention the first time, but it definitely does sound like Jack is saying Kate couldn't save them immediately after the crash.