Lost season 4.1.b.2

[The Stranger]

if kate committed her crimes in Iowa, how can they try her in California?

a throwaway episode, much more true to the frustrating character of the show than previous episodes this season.

here's a serious question: have they ever revealed the truth behind one single thing in this whole show? I'm beginning to have 24-syndrome here: the show was awesome until I realized 3 months in that I had to wait for three more months before anything happened beyond throat-clearing.

for some reason I'm having a real moment of clarity tonight: yes virginia, Lost is a screw-job.

time to go watch the Wire, and see Omar light some chumps up.

[HokieStone]

Hmm...didn't the previews last week say that we'd have another of the Oceanic Six revealed? Does that mean that Aaron is one of the six?

Not quite as much revealed this week, but a couple of tidbits...During Jack's testimony (supposedly a story he's said several times), he said "only 8 of us survived the crash". So, what's the delta between the "Oceanic 6" and the "8 survivors". I'm guessing 8 of them actually leave the island, and 2 die on the freighter or somehow en route back to the outside world. And since Kate's taking care of Aaron, that probably means Claire is done for, given Desmond's vision of her getting off the island. It's curious why Jack would be so distraught at seeing the baby though. Perhaps Claire does die, and it's through some fault of Jack's? Does Jack discover that Claire is his half-sister, so Aaron is his nephew (not sure why that would make him not want to see the baby, though)?

The fact that the helicopter has been missing for a day doesn't really do anything for the issue of the time discrepancy. It wouldn't seem to support the static 31 minute time delta or differing time rates. Could be that there's a different time jump leaving the island rather than entering it. Or the freighter people could simply be lying. Curious about the card "game" that Charlotte and Faraday were playing though...as if they clearly expected him to be able to know what the cards were.

The amount that Miles wanted from Ben - $3.2 million is a very specific number, which even Ben alluded to. Maybe that's the exact amount that Ben has in bank accounts somewhere (although Ben seemed perplexed at that specific amount), or the exact amount that Miles needs to pay off some debt or something. Who knows.

The exchange between Sun and Jin - "my baby"..."don't you mean our baby?" lends a little credence to the spoilers earlier in this thread...but don't really jive with the fact that Sun was so sure it was Jin's baby when Juliette did the sonogram.

I'm also curious if we'll ever be able to put the flash-forwards in chronological order. Aaron seemed about the right age that the flash-forwards are in current time, but Jack seems pretty well-adjusted. He'll have to go downhill pretty quickly to get the state we see him in during last year's finale. And at this point Kate seems open to the idea of having a relationship with him (provided he accept Aaron) whereas in last year's finale she doesn't really want to talk to him and is reluctant to meet him at the airport. And the fact that she's open to a possible relationship - what does that say about Sawyer?

[Arataniello]

Sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding sodding local TV here had to show cricket game instead of Lost. What a pile of WANK.

Aratan

[McCloskey]

if kate committed her crimes in Iowa, how can they try her in California?

I thought the same thing but maybe its b/c its in the Federal court system?

[The Stranger]

I'm also curious if we'll ever be able to put the flash-forwards in chronological order.

the Fuselage probably has a crack team, fueld by Jolt and Twizzlers, working on this very problem as we speak.

[HokieStone]

Not quite as much revealed this week, but a couple of tidbits...During Jack's testimony (supposedly a story he's said several times), he said "only 8 of us survived the crash". So, what's the delta between the "Oceanic 6" and the "8 survivors". I'm guessing 8 of them actually leave the island, and 2 die on the freighter or somehow en route back to the outside world.

Actually, it could be that 9 get off the island and 3 die (or something) en route, as Aaron may not be counted among the "8" that survived the crash, but would be counted among the "Oceanic 6".

[Soul on Ice and Fire]

Hmm...didn't the previews last week say that we'd have another of the Oceanic Six revealed? Does that mean that Aaron is one of the six?

Not quite as much revealed this week, but a couple of tidbits...During Jack's testimony (supposedly a story he's said several times), he said "only 8 of us survived the crash". So, what's the delta between the "Oceanic 6" and the "8 survivors". I'm guessing 8 of them actually leave the island, and 2 die on the freighter or somehow en route back to the outside world. And since Kate's taking care of Aaron, that probably means Claire is done for, given Desmond's vision of her getting off the island. It's curious why Jack would be so distraught at seeing the baby though. Perhaps Claire does die, and it's through some fault of Jack's? Does Jack discover that Claire is his half-sister, so Aaron is his nephew (not sure why that would make him not want to see the baby, though)?

I think it's going to be 8 survived the initial crash, 2 died on Island, 6 make it off to become the O6. I'd guess Aaron is one of the 6.

Claire doesn't seem that emotionally distraught at at Charlie being dead. She seemed happy when she was with Kate.

The fact that the helicopter has been missing for a day doesn't really do anything for the issue of the time discrepancy. It wouldn't seem to support the static 31 minute time delta or differing time rates. Could be that there's a different time jump leaving the island rather than entering it. Or the freighter people could simply be lying. Curious about the card "game" that Charlotte and Faraday were playing though...as if they clearly expected him to be able to know what the cards were.

The rocket was moving smoking fast though, something along the lines of a mile a second. The helicopter is moving a fraction of that, so it would be effect longer. Or maybe the effect isn't linear.

I think the card game was a straight up memory game, not a psychic test.

It's interesting to watch Locke parallel Ben as he becomes the protector of the Island. Kidney issues, father issues, father killing and turning against the people they used to live with.

ETA: Lawnmower Man(Stephen King tie in) didn't know who Sayid was, even though he had supposedly studied the manifest over and over. While Sayid might have been given a cover by the CIA, you would have thought he had some idea.

[HokieStone]

The rocket was moving smoking fast though, something along the lines of a mile a second. The helicopter is moving a fraction of that, so it would be effect longer. Or maybe the effect isn't linear.

Good point.

I was just about to ask where I had seen Kate's lawyer before, because it was bugging me all episode...but I just had an epiphany. He's "Joey" on "Big Love".

[Guest Raidne]

Curious about the card "game" that Charlotte and Faraday were playing though...as if they clearly expected him to be able to know what the cards were.

I agree with Soul - I think he'd just seen the cards and was supposed to recall them. So, he was really traumatized about the crash, has a caretaker, and has some kind of mental disorder that seems to be the kind of thing a person can theoretically work at recovering from.

Actually, it could be that 9 get off the island and 3 die (or something) en route, as Aaron may not be counted among the "8" that survived the crash, but would be counted among the "Oceanic 6".

Nice catch - I bet that's right - 3 die en route. Juliette, Desmond and Claire, IMO.

[Starkess]

Nice catch - I bet that's right - 3 die en route. Juliette, Desmond and Claire, IMO.

NO no no no. Desmond will not die. I will not allow it!

I also thought it was weird how happy Claire was. Maybe in a bit of denial or something.

[Soul on Ice and Fire]

There are also some issues with this new storyline:

What is the cover story behind Kate's pregnancy? It's Jack's baby? Then Kate has to get pregnant on the Island and give birth. Otherwise it doesn't fit.

Kate can't be well along in a pre Island pregnancy, otherwise people would have noticed when she was arrested. Claire was about to rupture with Aaron when the flight crashed.

Naturally, time distortions or other things might make this all work.

Probably bringing up old news: Christian Shepperd was probably in Australia to get Claire and unborn Aaron to LA, and he probably had the LA adoption family set up as well.

Minor quibble: The Australian authorities wouldn't let the marshal perform the arrest by himself.

I think the Island might be effecting memories, just look at Crazy French Chick, Ben re: Alex and being born on the Island, Faraday, Lawnmower Man, and the general lack of knowledge sharing among everyone on the Island. The whole flashback thing is like the movie "Momento", I wouldn't be surprised if memory loss comes in somewhere.

ETA: Why was Charlotte included on the freighter A-Team? Cultural anthropologist? For what? The original Hostile?

[aeu]

Actually, it could be that 9 get off the island and 3 die (or something) en route, as Aaron may not be counted among the "8" that survived the crash, but would be counted among the "Oceanic 6".

Nice catch - I bet that's right - 3 die en route. Juliette, Desmond and Claire, IMO.

Juliette and Desmond cannot be part of Jack's "8 of us survived the crash, 5 (6?) of that made out of the island" story.

I don't think Aaron is one of the six. It could work both ways obviously, but I feel like the baby wouldn't count.

I also thought it was weird how happy Claire was. Maybe in a bit of denial or something.

That was weird. Charlie died, what, 1 day ago?

What is the cover story behind Kate's pregnancy? It's Jack's baby? Then Kate has to get pregnant on the Island and give birth. Otherwise it doesn't fit.

That's even a harder a sell. There's not enough time for that, unless they aren't leaving with this ship and get saved 6-7 months later the earliest. Even then, they would be claiming the baby is about a year younger than he actually is.

I guess the most "believable" story would be claiming Kate was 3-4 months pregnant when she got on the plane and had the baby prematurely on the island.

[Kat]

Juliette and Desmond cannot be part of Jack's "8 of us survived the crash, 5 (6?) of that made out of the island" story.

I don't think Aaron is one of the six. It could work both ways obviously, but I feel like the baby wouldn't count.

with aeu. Juliette and Desmond wouldn't have been on the flight manifest, so unless their bodies get horribly burned or something...dunno.

[Zulofritter]

I also thought it was weird how happy Claire was. Maybe in a bit of denial or something.

That's relief, people. The druggie tried to drown her baby. She always seemed to have one foot out of the relationship, and now instead of breaking up with him, he's a martyr.

A weaker episode, but still a good one. Nice to see many characters taking a break, watching old videos and such. (There was a clip on ABC where Hurley watches Xanadu, but the soundtrack is loud heavy metal. I thought it was a clue that the others had a sweet satellite setup, but more likely they couldn't clear the music license for the internets.)

[Analu]

I knew Kate said "Aaron" in the end, but my cousin kept insisting she said "Eric". Eric? wtf?

The amount that Miles wanted from Ben - $3.2 million is a very specific number, which even Ben alluded to. Maybe that's the exact amount that Ben has in bank accounts somewhere (although Ben seemed perplexed at that specific amount), or the exact amount that Miles needs to pay off some debt or something. Who knows.

That whole scene kinda pissed me off. When the Oriental ghostbuster dude insisted that he just had to see Ben for a minute, I was expecting a little more of a payoff than a simple extortion attempt. And his giving Ben a time limit seemed incredibly lame to me. Both are captives. Unless he's absolutely positive that both are going to escape, how was he planning to enforce it? Maybe it has something to do with Ben's "powers"?

It's curious why Jack would be so distraught at seeing the baby though. Perhaps Claire does die, and it's through some fault of Jack's? Does Jack discover that Claire is his half-sister, so Aaron is his nephew (not sure why that would make him not want to see the baby, though)?

At first I thought you were making a joke, then I realized that oh yeah, Jack and Claire are related. This show's just wacky. Your guess seems as good as any. Don't see any other reason for Jack to be so distraught unless he somehow found out that they're blood and was involved in her death in some way.

That's relief, people. The druggie tried to drown her baby. She always seemed to have one foot out of the relationship, and now instead of breaking up with him, he's a martyr.

I'm just glad that Claire's not one of the survivors. I never liked any of the episodes with her and Charlie as the foci.

And I'm wondering what happened to Sawyer and why he isn't one of the Oceanic 6. I don't read any other message boards about this show except this one, so haven't got a clue what rumors are floating out there. Hope the next episode focuses on him. They better not kill him off. But at least if they do, HBO can sign him to play Jaime in ASOIAF.

[Arbor Gold]

So, in the flash-forwards, Kate is raising Aaron. How does that mesh with all the shit from before, when we saw the premonitions that Claire HAD to raise the baby? Am I just confused?

[Zulofritter]

So, in the flash-forwards, Kate is raising Aaron. How does that mesh with all the shit from before, when we saw the premonitions that Claire HAD to raise the baby? Am I just confused?

There's a few ways to view that. It was mostly a vague statement from a psychic that confessed to Eko that he was a fraud. So someone wanted the baby, or wanted to protect the baby, or wanted the baby in a certain place, or was confusing Aaron for some other kid, or was messing with Claire. I'm thinking Claire might be more important than Aaron. I doubt that she dies; the writers are getting better at misdirection.

But at least if they do, HBO can sign him to play Jaime in ASOIAF.

That's a good fit.

If Sun isn't the last of the O6, she's screwed.

[The Stranger]

Nice catch - I bet that's right - 3 die en route. Juliette, Desmond and Claire, IMO.

given the amount of build-up generated to Penny and Desmond, especially Desmond's superpowers and their overall connection to the Whidmore Corporation, assuming that he will die is either radically off the mark or a premonition of the greatest screw-job in this entire screw-job of a show.

[Werthead]

Nice stuff.

On the Oceanic Six: the producers confirmed in an interview that the O6 are defined as those who had boarding cards and thus were given compensation by Oceanic Airlines. So Aaron doesn't count (he wasn't born at the time). Lindelof then pointed out that technically Ben, Desmond, Juliet and any of the other Others could also make it off and wouldn't be counted as part of the O6 either, or that Ben could have taken on the identity of someone on the plane to get off the Island (I think he was just messing with us about the last part though). So we still have two more people to find out about.

I thought the same thing but maybe its b/c its in the Federal court system?

Didn't Kate commit her crimes across several different States? She blew up her father in Iowa, but committed the bank robbery somewhere else and stole cars in other locations. I'm hazy on US law, but doesn't that mean the Federal justice system takes over and she gets tried wherever?

And is it really nerdy of me to notice that the prosecutor was recurring Starfleet engineer Leah Brahms from ST: TNG?

assuming that he will die is either radically off the mark or a premonition of the greatest screw-job in this entire screw-job of a show.

Could be either. I'd completely forgotten the fact that the producers kept saying that Libby was going to be on the show into Season 3 and would have her own flashbacks, then they changed her mind and killed her apparently because to make it more surprising. Of course, the real reason is that they decided that Libby would be in Desmond's flashback and they'd have to kill her off sharpish before Desmond joined the main case at the end of Season 2 and recognised her.

On the timeline of the flash-forwards:

The episode Born to Run saw Kate's mum develop cancer and also saw her friend Tom get killed. On the plane in Exodus, Part 1 the Marshal states that Kate got her friend killed two years earlier. In this episode Kate's mum said she'd had cancer for four years. So she developed cancer in 2002, the plane crashed in 2004 and the trial takes place 2-2.5 years later, in late 2006 or early 2007. This ties in with Aaron's age (2.5 as a minimum, surely?) and with Jack's flash-forwards in the Season 3 finale, which by various means were pinned down to July 2007.

The Jin/Sun conversation was very interesting and when combined with the mobisode does suggest ambiguity in the identity of the parent of Sun's child. I think the whole Jae-flashback thing was misdirection to steer us away from Michael. It could still be misdirection and Jin will turn out to be the father but we'll find out eventually, I suppose.

As for next week's flash:

SPOILER: Lost 405

It's Desmond's flashback. But it's kind of screwed up, a bit like Season 3's Flashes Before Your Eyes, and time travel may play a role again.

[Red Templar]

Don't see any other reason for Jack to be so distraught unless he somehow found out that they're blood and was involved in her death in some way.

My take: Claire isn't dead. She's one of possibly many still stuck back on the island. If Claire were dead, I think Jack would suck it up and be a part of Aaron's life, for Aaron's sake. But Jack knows that Claire is still alive, and seeing her baby would be too much of a mindf*ck because it would be a huge reminder of the lie he is living.