Battlestar Galactica: Season 4 Thread

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

"Tranny-ness"? Seriously? My, short hair on a woman provokes all sorts of irrational reactions.

[potsherds]

[quote name='Bormon' post='1313550' date='Apr 14 2008, 19.20']Too many questions and too many threads, I'm not sure how they are going to tie all this together.[/quote]
Me neither. :dunno:

Myself, I'm ignoring any allusions to Christianity or any other western religion based off Zoroastrianism, for two reasons:
1) I will be completely disgusted if RDM actually somehow ties this into one specific Earth religion, lending it any credence over the others. And it just doesn't strike me as something RDM would do.
2) I personally can't recall any mention of a holy book that sounds something like 'Bible', or any mention of a martyred son of the one-god. Seems to me that the Cylons (and Baltar cult members), simply believe in a monotheistic god, in various deistic and pantheistic interpretations, with little of the theistic trappings of Christianity.

[add-on]

[quote name='The Fat Man' post='1313574' date='Apr 14 2008, 12.34']"Tranny-ness"? Seriously? My, short hair on a woman provokes all sorts of irrational reactions.[/quote]
Umm, I personally don't find Starbuck to be very tranny-esque, but I'd say the sentiment has to do more with her strong, pronounced facial features than with her short hair.

[potsherds]

[quote name='add-on' post='1313590' date='Apr 14 2008, 19.43']Umm, I personally don't find Starbuck to be very tranny-esque, but I'd say the sentiment has to do more with her strong, pronounced facial features than with her short hair.[/quote]
I'd say it has to do mostly with Zadok's lack of confidence in his own sexuality and gender.

[add-on]

[quote name='potsherds' post='1313593' date='Apr 14 2008, 12.46']I'd say it has to do mostly with Zadok's lack of confidence in his own sexuality and gender.[/quote]
touche

[Shryke]

[quote name='potsherds' post='1313585' date='Apr 14 2008, 14.41']Me neither. :dunno:

Myself, I'm ignoring any allusions to Christianity or any other western religion based off Zoroastrianism, for two reasons:
1) I will be completely disgusted if RDM actually somehow ties this into one specific Earth religion, lending it any credence over the others. And it just doesn't strike me as something RDM would do.
2) I personally can't recall any mention of a holy book that sounds something like 'Bible', or any mention of a martyred son of the one-god. Seems to me that the Cylons (and Baltar cult members), simply believe in a monotheistic god, in various deistic and pantheistic interpretations, with little of the theistic trappings of Christianity.[/quote]

I'm thinking the One God is an actual THING of some sort. Something manipulating events behind the scenes or the like.

My random theory for the current time is:

SPOILER: Drug Induced Insanity

It's some sort of AI program left over on earth. Humans are dead (for some reason or other) and they've left this thing to guide their "children" (the artificail beings they created) back to earth to take humanities place there. What it's trying to do right now is smash the 2 cultures (Cylon and Colonial) together to form a new, better species to populate earth.

[mcbigski]

[quote name='potsherds' post='1313585' date='Apr 14 2008, 13.41']Me neither. :dunno:

Myself, I'm ignoring any allusions to Christianity or any other western religion based off Zoroastrianism, for two reasons:
1) I will be completely disgusted if RDM actually somehow ties this into one specific Earth religion, lending it any credence over the others. And it just doesn't strike me as something RDM would do.
2) I personally can't recall any mention of a holy book that sounds something like 'Bible', or any mention of a martyred son of the one-god. Seems to me that the Cylons (and Baltar cult members), simply believe in a monotheistic god, in various deistic and pantheistic interpretations, with little of the theistic trappings of Christianity.[/quote]

They've gone with explicitly Christian imagery in past episodes. There was the one shot of Baltar standing in the crucifixion pose on the deck of his dream mansion, and again with him striking the same pose after crashing down on Kobol. Possibly it's just that they went with it because its symbolism was easily accessible to the audience, rather than because it was indicitive of the one and true nature of God. Of course, if they used a lot of symbols from other religions, it would probably go over my head anyway, since I'm not that well versed in religion. I did notice that the Shrine of Baltar had his picture inside a six pointed star. But then it was lit by Christmas tree lights, which gets us back to Christianity again!

This would have been a great episode if either of Adama or Roslin tried to argue that her missing Starbuck was just a 'freak occurence.' They really missed a great opportunity there.

[Tobin]

Sorry for the super long reply -- had 13 pages to catch up on....

[quote name='Domaine Raidneé' post='1302273' date='Apr 5 2008, 19.14']Did I mention that the name Dualla invokes duality of character, and that her first name Anastasia means "resurrection" in Greek? Just sayin'[/quote]
I keep going back to what Leoban said: "Adama is a cylon."
If we count them up, there should be 4 Adamas:
[list]
[*]A.Adama (daddy)
[*]Mrs. Adama (dead)
[*]Zack Adama (dead)
[*]Lee Adama (angsty)
[/list]However, Dualla married Lee - so that should technically make her an "Adama", too.
Most all of what Leoban said came true - the only lie that I can think of was about Kara's 'child'.

[quote name='Shryke' post='1306004' date='Apr 8 2008, 12.35']I'm still sticking with my theory that the Colonials are just another kind of manufactured being. Like even more advanced Cylons. Basically, something with the Maelstrom where Kara died put her close enough to Earth for them to download her Cylon style. The (real) humans then put her in a new body, built her a new fighter and sent her home to lead the 2 fleets back to them.

The "All this has happened before, all this will happen again" thing is because Cylons and Colonials are both, in some fashion, machines. Deterministic machines, to some degree. They follow the same patterns over and over again.[/quote]

That's probably one of the best theories I've seen. The "will happen again" has always bothered me, though I think LOST has made me gunshy of trying to read too deep into party lines.

[quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1306240' date='Apr 8 2008, 14.20']You have NO sense of good fiction.

[i]18 And the LORD Zarek said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him, only shall she be more manly.” 19 Out of the ground the LORD Zarek formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam-a to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam-a called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So Adam-a gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field and he named them for his fallen angels; Chuckles and Hot Dog and Kat. But for Adam-a there was not found a helper comparable to him.
21 And the LORD Zarek caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam-a, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
23 And Adam-a said:
“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.
and because [b]I LOVE KARA THRACE![/b]."[/i]

And don't even get me started on how Eve ultimately gets tempted out of Eden by her Viper....[/quote]

So much awesomeness, :thumbsup:

[quote name='Shryke' post='1312539' date='Apr 13 2008, 17.04']Really? Interesting.

Must remember that on my next BSG re-watch. Might make the Leoben/Starbuck scenes creepier.[/quote]

Leoben has an intensity that is hard to ignore. He's roughly cut like Daniel Craig - not exactly handsome, but rugged looking. I think it's Leoben's conviction that set him apart from the others, he's seen as having 'otherworldly' knowledge based on his spiritual background.
His facination with Starbuck plays into her 'destiny' angle and gives it much more creedence.

[quote name='Kat' post='1312759' date='Apr 13 2008, 20.35']What I don't understand is the love for Helo. I find him bland.[/quote]

I like Helo - he's reliable, dedicated and honest to a flaw. Good looks often go the way of Tighe's hair - but good character is there for the long haul.
Plus he's tall and built - it works for me!.
The 'boxing' episode is a good showcase for it: there's a part where you can tell Helo stops playing around and seems to actually get bigger before wading into the punches.

As for the girls?
Meh, Cally has that 'girl next door' feel - plain, but not terrible. She fits the working-class look - making it a perfect match to the Chief's blue-collar profile. Truthfully, I think she's one of the most realistic women on the show.
I still feel that the Chief married her because of guilt at first, but then started to like her more toward the end.

Six in the jump suit was much sexier looking than any of the slinky dresses, more approachable.

Sharon is cute - I keep seeing her as her kid cameo on SG1, :P

Dualla has some amazing eyes - I always think of a [url="http://www.catsite.com/images/Queens/LotusBlossom.jpg"]cat[/url] when I see her.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

[quote name='mcbigski' post='1313844' date='Apr 14 2008, 16.39']They've gone with explicitly Christian imagery in past episodes. There was the one shot of Baltar standing in the crucifixion pose on the deck of his dream mansion, and again with him striking the same pose after crashing down on Kobol. Possibly it's just that they went with it because its symbolism was easily accessible to the audience, rather than because it was indicitive of the one and true nature of God. Of course, if they used a lot of symbols from other religions, it would probably go over my head anyway, since I'm not that well versed in religion. I did notice that the Shrine of Baltar had his picture inside a six pointed star. But then it was lit by Christmas tree lights, which gets us back to Christianity again![/quote]

I think the tendency to use Christ-like imagery with Baltar is usually meant to be ironic (as in The Hand of God episode); certainly in the past couple of episodes, the Jesus imagery largely serves to reinforce to Baltar as a character and to the audience how flawed he is in comparison with the messianic view that his followers have of him. Watch Callis' performance in "He Who Believeth in Me...", and it's clear from the beginning that Baltar acknowledges (to himself) that he does not deserve to be any kind of savior.

And no way are "Christmas lights" Christian just because they're associated with a Christian holiday. If that were true, jokes about fruitcake would be religious too, as would movies about Santa Claus, and sitcom episodes where the true meaning of Christmas is being together with your family.

[Werthead]

[quote name='Deluge' post='1313537' date='Apr 14 2008, 19.11']I remember reading that there were actually several shots taken for the Last Supper picture, some of which didn't have the empty place at the table. I think that in general, it's really up in the air whether or not the picture is significant. Some sources have been saying yes, some no.[/quote]

The only source that's been saying 'no' is Aaron Douglas, and that's because RDM wasn't there, so Douglas thought that RDM's statements about the picture were him taking the mick. However, Entertainment Weekly talked to RDM before they went and did the shot, and apparently he approved the pic with the space at the table beforehand. So Douglas was mistaken.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

So...

SPOILER: random conjecture

How long before the Centurions 'evolve' themselves into the next generation of Cylons, now that they've been given free will? Will this make Natalie their One True God, as the one who gave them the free will in the first place? :P

[Zulofritter]

As appearance goes, Cally is my favorite.

Anyone catch Sebastian Spence in a couple of scenes? Lead role in First Wave, and parts on a slew of SciFi shows. Probably not the last Cylon, but I bet he gets featured more down the line.

[Bormon]

[quote name='Zulofritter' post='1314529' date='Apr 15 2008, 03.52']As appearance goes, Cally is my favorite.

Anyone catch Sebastian Spence in a couple of scenes? Lead role in First Wave, and parts on a slew of SciFi shows. Probably not the last Cylon, but I bet he gets featured more down the line.[/quote]


First Wave was a great concept for a show that really just went into the toilet. Too bad really.

[Lord of Oop North]

[quote name='Zulofritter' post='1314529' date='Apr 15 2008, 03.52']Anyone catch Sebastian Spence in a couple of scenes? Lead role in First Wave, and parts on a slew of SciFi shows. Probably not the last Cylon, but I bet he gets featured more down the line.[/quote]

Yeah. Freaker is his call-sign, I think? He was a Pegasus pilot, and seemed to be the second ranking pilot when he came aboard Galatica with Stinger in [i]Pegasus[/i].

I've been rewatching the series and I really hope they explain what happened to Baltar and Caprica Six during the attacks. Six definitely died, and it seems like Baltar did as well. Now they are seeing visions, whom seem to be pushing them towards bringing the Humans and Cylons together. Head Six pushed Baltar towards the Presidency and thus, New Caprica. Head Baltar pushed Caprica Six towards the occupation of humanity. So, whats going on?

[Tobin]

[quote name='Seefster Mary Stigmata' post='1314510' date='Apr 15 2008, 03.52']So...

SPOILER: random conjecture

How long before the Centurions 'evolve' themselves into the next generation of Cylons, now that they've been given free will? Will this make Natalie their One True God, as the one who gave them the free will in the first place? :P

[/quote]

I think it was a mistake, though made with the best intentions.

SPOILER: dangers

Now that the Centurions have freedom, they're unreliable - kinda like the Unsullied deciding: "You know, I miss my balls - I'm done with this place." The Cs could just as likely turn against Natalie as well, wondering why she or the other 'progressives' let them and the raiders live as slaves for so long.

[Relic]

[quote name='Lord of the North' post='1314778' date='Apr 15 2008, 08.49']I've been rewatching the series and I really hope they explain what happened to Baltar and Caprica Six during the attacks. Six definitely died, and it seems like Baltar did as well. Now they are seeing visions, whom seem to be pushing them towards bringing the Humans and Cylons together. Head Six pushed Baltar towards the Presidency and thus, New Caprica. Head Baltar pushed Caprica Six towards the occupation of humanity. So, whats going on?[/quote]


Im surprised that so many of you still have faith in the writers. I mean it certainly looks like they are making all this stuff up as they go along. The Cylons MIGHT have had a plan at some point...

[Lord of Oop North]

[quote name='Relic' post='1314949' date='Apr 15 2008, 10.24']Im surprised that so many of you still have faith in the writers. I mean it certainly looks like they are making all this stuff up as they go along. The Cylons MIGHT have had a plan at some point...[/quote]

I'm not sure. Baltar's storyline seems to be the one thing that has been planned from the beginning.

He was being set up as the future leader of humanity at the beginning of Season 2. Head Six was pushing him towards saving Hera, and safeguarding the future of Humans and Cylons. All that stuff about the instrument of God? To me, it just all seems to add up that there was [i]something[/i] planned.

I don't think it necessarily has to be the Cylon's plan either. It seems like Baltar is being guided by something else. Is it God? I dunno.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I'm with LotN; obviously there have been a lot of things that weren't planned out (the identity of the Final Four, Kara's destiny, etc.), and Ron Moore's pretty upfront about that. He's also said more than once that there are things he knew as early as the end of season one that are still playing out, and I think the exact nature of Head Six is one of them.

I don't think Baltar died on Caprica, though. I think he survived through the miraculous healing powers of Ron Moore's busily-waving hand.

[Crow's Eye]

[quote name='Relic' post='1314949' date='Apr 15 2008, 11.24']Im surprised that so many of you still have faith in the writers. I mean it certainly looks like they are making all this stuff up as they go along. The Cylons MIGHT have had a plan at some point...[/quote]

After season 3, my faith in the writers was pretty much shot. I will watch the show in the hopes that it regains its former glory (and it does show signs of doing so at times), but I'm not holding my breath. After my recent re-watch of season 3, I have decided that the beginning (through and including Collaborators) and the end (Maelstrom - end) are pretty good, and not too far off the pace of seasons 1 and 2.0. but the rest is crap, and that makes me wonder whether season 4 will be the same way - a few really good eps interlaced with eps focused on homicidal doctors, black markets, marital problems, and lame deus-ex-machina.

As for the writers planning things out in advance, I read an article recently (can't find link) where one or more of the writers talked about how they pluck pieces from past episodes to create a mirage of planning. Case in point: The circle/eye on the wall of Kara's Delphi apartment - not originally planned to represent eye of jupiter/maelstrom storm. It originally had no meaning, but then the writers decided to connect it with Kara's story when writing the eye of jupiter episode. So it appears as if there's a plan and some continuity when watching in order, but many times its just a mirage.

That being said, I'm enjoying season 4 so far. The episodes flow along nicely, are related, and are genuinely entertaining. I think they've set the stage for some very interesting stories, such as Starbuck's search for Earth and the potential civil war in Cylonville.

[potsherds]

[quote name='The Fat Man' post='1314991' date='Apr 15 2008, 15.54']I don't think Baltar died on Caprica, though. I think he survived through the miraculous healing powers of Ron Moore's busily-waving hand.[/quote]
Teehee. :D


I've got a lot of faith in RDM, probably more than I should. I don't yet see where all this is going, but there seems a purpose in everything. I think the confusion has a lot to do with the fact that RDM is using a heck of a lot of 'miracles' and other unexplainable events and just leaving them at that. He's using the faith of his characters to leave a lot of things in the realm of the fantastical. It doesn't make sense completely if you look at this as strictly sci-fi, but if you accept that there are aspects of fantasy (mythology and religion) that are playing active parts in this, it becomes no less hectic and confusing, but a little easier to swallow. At least for me. :dunno: