Erikson or Bakker

[RaceBannon42]

Erikson. I don't like the messiah concept, which turned me off the most about that series. Not fun to me reading about someone who is perfect. (well not exactly perfect, but he certainly is the best at everything)

I thought that was most of Erickson's characters who are the best at everything.

[Alarich]

Bakker. No doubt about that. I like Erikson, I might even try his third book, but Bakker tells a much better story. If you enjoy world-building for the pure sake of it, then I'd say go for Erikson, otherwise go for Bakker, there's more depth to his characters and more emotional envolvement, the story is well paced, better focused (Erikson builds up about as many loose ends in two books as RJ in five, or so it seemed to me) and thought provoking (which Erikson isn't, at least for me).

Having said all that, I must say that the better author for commuting is probably Erikson.

[Arakasi]

Nope. If you talk to Erikson fans who is the best fighter, there will be minimum 8-10 names that get put out (Karsa, Calm, Rake, Icarium, Daseem, Brood, Segulah First, Segulah Second, Tool, Cotillion, etc). Do it with magic and you get the same. It is like an all star lineup in ways. You have tons of people, some who have met, some who haven't. Some who are enemies and some who are friends. You certainly wonder how they'd do if they fought eachother, and you anticipate them coming together so they can fight it out so you can see it. It's like the Iliad with its myriad different heroes. (although the difference is that Erikson has no Achilles who is the best of the best)

But look at Bakker with Kelhus. He is easily the best fighter in the series and has shown it many times. He is clearly the smartest person. He knows how to manipulate everyone, showing himself as the most cunning person. He has special abilities that no one else does. And in the last book from what I hear he gets to be the best at magic too. Kelhus is a Messiah figure in that he basically is godlike in all he does. He does have some flaws, but those flaws don't really have anything to do with his abilities, which transcends everyone else. Now if Kelhus was in Erikson's world, he would be one among many powerful beings. But in Bakker's world, Kelhus is clearly the best at everything and to me inbalances the work. Now if you like reading about a god and how he acts with mortals, than go ahead. But I prefer to have a more level playing field.

[Rhaco]

I prefer Erikson, but they're both awesome. I'd reconsider any job that allows for zero reading time, Danny.

There was another "Erikson or Bakker" thread, but I think it deteriorated into a debate on the completeness of Bakker's work at present. Might be some info useful to you on the first few pages, though. I was going to search and link it for you, but I forgot, and now it's too late.

And people, please, the name is Erikson. Not Erickson. Like Robin Hobbs and China Melville, I guess he's doomed to some people never being able to spell the name right.

[Multaniette]

Boy would I second Rhelley's rec of Michelle West. Right now, for me, she trumps both Bakker and Erikson.

But of the two mentioned, Erikson's was the more enjoyable even though IMO Bakker is a better writer.

[Jerol]

I say start with Bakker, cuz it's only three books, because given the other + and - the two are even. I'm addicted to Erikson but you can only get three of the books in the US right now and I pity anyone who gets to MoI and discovers "I have to go to Amazon.CANADA to get the next ones".

[Calibandar]

Bakker, because his style of witing is much more coherent, flows much better and isn't as loose and haphazard as Erikson's can be.

Bakker, because his characterization, while by no means a flat out success, is still a lot more impressive than the characterization by Erikson.

Bakker, because of a big item called "dialogue". The things Erikson has his soldiers or 10,000 year old superbeings say are just totally different from what I would expect such characters to say and behave.

Plus, the dialogue is so interchangeable. Any one character in Erikson's world could probably say the same things as another, and you'd never know the difference.

[Stego]

Bakker is the better writer, and the product is actually complete.

[Crannogman]

Could somebody PLEASE explain why it is always "Erikson versus Bakker."

Yes, they're both new, both canadian and both epic, but other than that they don't resemble eachother that much...

Why not Erikson versus Kay? Bakker versus Wolfe?

Well, with that out of my system I'll add my voice to the chorus and state that Bakker is to be preferred to Erikson. Better writer, better characters, better dialogue, more believable (if not equally cool) world, and most importantly a story that makes me think.

I've read and enjoyed Erikson, but I couldn't tell you what the books are actually about in between all the pyrotechnics.

[drawkcabi]

Definitely Bakker. The PoN series is infinitely more rewarding in regard to writing style, character depth, and story immersion and comprehension.

Erikson trumps Bakker when it comes to world building, only because of sheer magnitude, not because of details. Erikson has a good series going but its really about the world and not as much as the characters within it. Bakker's work is much more personal and substantial.

I like Erikson, I've read all his Malazan books save Bonehunters and I look forward to reading that one when it comes out here in the US. But I am going as crazy for Bakker's Aspect Emperor series as I am for ADWD.

Could somebody PLEASE explain why it is always "Erikson versus Bakker."

Yes, they're both new, both canadian and both epic, but other than that they don't resemble eachother that much...

Why not Erikson versus Kay? Bakker versus Wolfe?

Well, with that out of my system I'll add my voice to the chorus and state that Bakker is to be preferred to Erikson. Better writer, better characters, better dialogue, more believable (if not equally cool) world, and most importantly a story that makes me think.

I've read and enjoyed Erikson, but I couldn't tell you what the books are actually about in between all the pyrotechnics.

That's simple. Take a poll of the posters in the forum of which author they like almost as much, just as much, or even better than Martin. You'll get a Kay here and there, a Mieville, a few Hobbs, but the majority of people are either going to say either Bakker or Erikson. It doesn't matter if their work is similar or not, it's that (according to a lot) they are the best overall, so they are going to be compared.

[drza]

I haven't read Bakker yet, but I've got a few cents to add here...

1) I just started Erikson a few weeks ago and I'm up through book 3, waiting on books 4 & 5 to arrive in the mail this week. I'm enjoying the hell out of them, though it is definitely a read that requires some work (especially through the first couple books).

2) After I get/finish Bonehunters I plan to read the Bakker series. I saved that one for last because from the threads around here I thought I'd like it better than Erikson, but Erikson's set the bar pretty high so Bakker's gonna have to really come with it to surpass him.

3) I third and fully recommend the Michelle West books. She's got 2 series out already placed in the same world, and the second (six book series Sun Sword) is my favorite completed series right now bar none. She's got more books coming in that world, and like others have said before I'm looking forward to them at least as much as I am the rest of the Martin series.

[Blaine]

Could somebody PLEASE explain why it is always "Erikson versus Bakker."

Yes, they're both new, both canadian and both epic, but other than that they don't resemble eachother that much...

Actually, in the wild, they're natural enemies...

[Werthead]

Both. If that's not possible, than Bakker has the edge as his series is complete (albeit with a sequel series planned). Although Erikson's novels are kind of stand-alone for the first three and the fifth instalments.

Edit: I think we had this thread around once before. I'll see if I can track it down for a bit of merging.

Found it. Yeah, there's a bit of mudslinging. All part of the fun of the board I suppose.

[Rhaco]

I third and fully recommend the Michelle West books.

I really need to give that series another shot. It's just that every time I think of Jewel I die a little on the inside.

[Whiskeyjack]

Erikson >>>> Bakker

[Arakasi]

First their came Tolkien (well really not first, but for the sake of this argument and what people read it pretty much is). He was epic and he wrote a great saga. His stuff while not liked by all has really not been challenged, since well he pretty much started the modern epic fantasy genre. You don't tend to see a lot of Tolkien vs anything threads around, since he generally gets an automatic win in most of those debates.

Then a lot of stuff was written. Some epic, some not, some good, some not. Finally this guy called Jordan started writing. The next big thing, it allowed all sorts of writers to get starts in writing epic fantasy, where for years it was just little 3 book series. For a while Jordan stood alone, both because of the quality of his writing and because he was well the only one out there doing it. But publishers bought into this epic fantasy thing. And as Jordan's quality decreased and other authors showed up, we had a more level playing field.

So then Martin started writing ASOIAF. It was epic and a great series and this board (well and the two before it really) were formed. For a long time there was tons of Martin vs Jordan debates. That started to die out when Jordan's books sucked so much that no one could even hold the argument anymore (well other than OS ). There were other epic fantasies like Williams, West or Wurts, but none of them really got enough people to love them to ever really start anything on this board. As a Martin board people should realize that just like fans of anyone, people get upset and start threads and bash others when someone challenges their favs, whether it be sports, fantasy books or politics.

Then along comes Hobb and Erikson. Hobb gets a lot of love from a good deal of people, but really since the series isn't epic it doesn't enter the discussion that much. Erikson however gets a good deal of attention and fans for being epic and thus the whole 2 years of Martin vs Erikson debates are started. And they continued til Bakker started writing. As his work gained supporters, he entered the fray. And since then its been pretty much this whole thing of all those 3 series being compared to eachother and being backed and bashed by different people. Reason they're the ones discussed and not others? (there are some who like West more than anything out there on this board I know). Its because they are the books that have challenged Martin here that have a signifigant number of vocal backers. And perhaps at some point another author will enter the discussion. But for now with Epic fantasy and these boards, those 3 are princes (well Tolkien is really the king, but yeah he dominates the field so much that most don't bother). Martin's last book and the continued success of Erikson and Bakker has also more equalized things. (since really before AFFC, barely anyone disliked any asoiaf books, while now there is a substantial number of dissapointed people)

But yeah fans will be fans. Kinda inevitable. I just am happy that there are 3 excellent Epic fantasy series that we can discuss here.

[Lord Baelish]

I would definitely go with Erikson (shock horror). His books take a little work to get into, but the reward is certainly worth it. His characterisation isn't the best, but I think he has still created some memorable characters. Karsa Orlong, anyone? And the world he has created is breathtaking in its scope and detail. Six books into the series and I'm still trying to piece everything together. If you like a really, really challenging (but ultimately rewarding) puzzle, go with Erikson.

A lot of people love Bakker, but I was quite indifferent to his work. I've read the first two books, and the first one just completely bored me to tears. The second book had more action but, like Arakasi, I just could not stand the main character, Kellhus. He is just far too powerful and unbeatable. In Erikson's world, every powerful character has someone who can counter him/her. With Kellhus, I thought it was just all too easy for him and that put me off straight away. Add that to the fact that I couldn't find any other characters, main or secondary, to sympathise with and I'm left wondering whether to buy the third book or not.

[Arakasi]

I like Akki and Cnaiur quite fine, as well as some of the more minor characters. But yeah Kelhus to me is a major turn off in that series. Well not so much in the first book, but in the second it was awful.

[Analu]

The second book had more action but, like Arakasi, I just could not stand the main character, Kellhus. He is just far too powerful and unbeatable.

Well, what about his father (who Kellhus means to kill) or the Inchoroi? They seemed to be his match. But yeah, I see your point. I kind of had the same problem with Kellhus, but still loved the series.

I put down Erikson the first time I tried reading him, but may try again. I think my first effort was flawed, because I would try to catch a few pages when bartending and it was slow, so would have to put down the book every few paragraphs to make some drinks. Then when I picked it up again, had to reread what I just read because it was so complicated. I should prolly rethink that strategy.

[Mallory]

I put down Erikson the first time I tried reading him, but may try again. I think my first effort was flawed, because I would try to catch a few pages when bartending and it was slow, so would have to put down the book every few paragraphs to make some drinks. Then when I picked it up again, had to reread what I just read because it was so complicated. I should prolly rethink that strategy.

i am having the same problem with erickson. i tried reading the first book on the bus but can't read for more then 10min at a time and am lost. i think the trick maybe to read it only when yuo can spend more then an hour or more reading it undistrubed. at least that is what i am planning to try.