New York and Washington DC

[Deedles]

Hi guys,

Heading off to New York and DC the end of September / early October. 6 nights in NY, 5 in DC. Could I elicit any local info from you guys? What should I not miss? Make an effort to see? Not do unless I have anything better to do? Plans are very nebulous at the moment. Would very much like to see a show - but not sure what's good. Thinking seriously about a trip out to see the Statue of Liberty - is it worth it? Are there any bars/ restaurants I should check out?

In Washington, we plan on checking out a few museums - what should I definitely see?

Thanks guys!

[naz]

It would be easier for us if you gave us more information that explains what kind of tourist you are:


Do you like to walk around a lot or would you rather take cabs and trains?

Do you prefer to see all the tourist-y sites or do you prefer to go off the beaten path?

What kind of food do you like - ethnic, simple, expensive, local specialties? What kind of bars?

Do you like to visit places according to a plan, or do you just wing it? A

re you interested in architecture and buildings? Hanging out with locals? Active fun? Passive relaxation?

Will you be staying in the middle of the city or outside?

Will you be able to spend a lot or is it strictly a tight budget?

[Xray the Enforcer]

What should you do? Panic.

Re: Food/Drink -- What are you most interested in? Beer? Cocktails? Wine? Whisky? Bourbon? A particular kind of food (Michelin stars, or the dreaded molecular gastronomy, or a proper pizza)?

As for Statue of Liberty -- I say take the Staten Island Ferry (free, and it goes right by SoL), skip the trip to the SoL itself, and then go to the top of the Empire State Building. Or take a boat tour around the island of Manhattan. Visit the Met and the Natural History museum and perhaps the Whitney. The MoMA is pretty cool, too, but damned expensive. I've heard good things about the Tenement Museum, too. [url="http://www.tenement.org/"]http://www.tenement.org/[/url]

ETA - I think Naz covered all my questions, too. :lol:

[Deedles]

I love walking around and will quite happily walk for hours (I think you get a better picture of the place that way), at the same time, will take trains or a cab if I need to get somewhere more than an hour away.

I'd like to catch some of the touristy places, just to say to myself I've been there. I generally think off-the-beaten track has a lot to recommend it.

I LOVE food, all of it. Any of it. Would like the name of one good place as it's my birthday when I'm over there and I believe in pushing boats out for any kind of a celebration. Other than peanuts, there's nothing either the SO or I can't eat. Love Italian, French, Japanese, Thai, Indian (name the cuisine). In DC, we're staying near Dupont Circle so my uncle said there are quite a few ethnic restaurants there, so we may eat there mostly. I guess what I'm trying to say is if it's good, I'll eat and enjoy it.

I like to start the day saying we will do 2-3 things (which may take an hour) and wing it from there. I hate being over scheduled on hols.

Architecture, sure I admire it. But I'll rarely spend more than 2 minutes looking up at a building. Yes, I know I'm a philistine. Locals, yeah great. Love chatting. It's one of the great perks of hols, you get to meet all sorts (and run quickly if they're ..... scary). I do like to keep going, on the other hand, I'm not likely to get into extreme exercise that'll lead me to be too tired to drink properly that evening.

Staying in the upper West Side, near Central Park in NY. DC as above.

Budget, probably about 150-300 a day.

Beer, not so much. I like the odd beer on a hot day. The boy drinks Budweiser which I think covers his taste in beer. Wine. I love it. Drink entirely too much of it. Cocktails. Yummy, though after 3-4 I am wrecked. Straight spirits, not so much. I tend to drink G&Ts in the pub mostly. The gin probably explains a lot.

Thanks so much!

[naz]

Ok, here's my suggestions for New York:

Like Xray said, skip the Statue. It's beauty is best seen from afar, particularly from a boat in the Harbor, the way the immigrants did. You could take one of the [url="http://www.circleline42.com/"]Circle Line [/url]cruises. Take a short one that just takes you around the southern part of Manhattan; no need to waste 3 hrs going all the way around. The Staten Island Ferry is a great idea cause it's free, but it's also short and at least the Circle Line announcer tells you a bit about what you're seeing.

Ellis Island is not so bad a place, but in a short trip like yours, you could spend the time seeing better things.

The [url="http://www.esbnyc.com/index2.cfm?CFID=29398093&CFTOKEN=16960111"]Empire State Bldg [/url]is a must, but do it during off-hours because the line can be very long. And you won't know how long it is until you've already spent an hour in it. (It weaves in and out of rooms, both on the ground and up in the Sky Lobby.) Best to do the ESB late at night, if you can. The city looks amazing from there at night. I think you can go up until 2 am. I recommend it.

Forget the double-decker tour buses. It's a waste of money for what amounts to someone driving you around and talking about NY. Best to walk, take the subway, meet real New Yorkers, and read about stuff in a guidebook. Btw, make sure you buy the[url="http://www.mta.info/metrocard/mcgtreng.htm"] 1-day or 7-day subway pass[/url]. It gives you unlimited rides for a low rate. Totally a bargain.

You can walk through Times Square if you like, but don't waste too much time there. It's a tourist trap. Just pass through it on your way to somewhere else. And do so at night.

Museums: You can spend a year in NYC and not see all there is to see in museums and galleries, so decide on the things you like to see in museums and focus on them. Natural History and the Space Center are good, but don't waste time with dioramas of stuffed animals; the beauty of the MNH is in the antiquities and cultural exhibits. Instead, go to the Bronx Zoo and see real animals. Give yourself a full day at the Bronx Zoo and maybe combine it with a trip to the NY Botanical Garden, which is next door. It should still be open in late Sept, I think and it's truly a beautiful place. While you're in the Bronx, if you want Italian food, check out the restaurants on Arthur Ave. Don't go to Little Italy for Italian food.

Back to Museums: Art - check out the Metropolitan because it's extensive and it's pay-what-you-like. But if you love art, you can spend forever in there, so budget your time. The MoMA, Whitney, Guggenheim, and Dia Center are all great for modern art. Pick one or two and spend an afternoon. The Native American Museum is also good, as is the Folk Art Museum, if you're into that stuff. There are also lots of art and photography galleries scattered around the city (esp. in SoHo), so if you're into it, do some research before your trip and see what exhibitions are going on.

Broadway: Personally, I'm not a fan, but many people are. My only advice - get your tickets from the [url="http://www.tdf.org/tdf_servicepage.aspx?id=56"]TKTS booth [/url]in Times Square. They make same-day tickets available around 2-3 pm for certain shows for half-price. The only hitch is that you can only get what's available that day. But half-price is worth it.

Restaurants and bars: I'll defer to other NY boarders on this issue, because they all either live or work in the city and know more places. However, follow my Italian food advice above, and if you want Indian food, there are many scattered places, but they tend to be clustered in Murray Hill (aka Curry Hill) around Lexington Ave and 25th-29th Streets. On Lex and 28th is a great place called Chinese Mirch, which is Indian/Chinese fusion. You might never have had that, so it's worth a try. If you think Indian Chinese is just some invented cuisine, you should know that it's very common in Eastern India. For South Indian, there's also Saravanaa Bhavan (Lex and 26th) or Pongal (Lex bet. 28th/27th). Another option for Indian is Jackson Heights, the Indian neighborhood in Queens. It's kind of a hike (take the 7 train from Grand Central), but you'll get Indian restaurants that are less pretentious and more authentic. Jackson Diner is a popular place. Finally, if you don't eat a pizza in New York city, it will be considered a criminal offense and they probably won't let you leave the country. A few places to try (google them): Lombardi's/Patsy's/Grimaldi's, John's Pizza (on Bleecker) or any old corner pizzeria will do. Also, Mamoun's (on McDougal) makes the best falafel on the East Coast and it's wicked cheap eats. (So is the Kati Roll Company a few doors down from Mamoun's).

And please, for my sake... please do NOT eat at any Applebee's, Friday's, Pizza Hut, Olive Garden, or any other chain restaurant in NYC. It's a mortal sin and I'll have to insist on a swift trial by NY/BwB tribunal after which you will likely be summarily executed. (Hot dogs and pretzels from street vendors are perfectly acceptable, however.)

Speaking of Grand Central, I know you said you're not big on architecture, so I won't waste time on the Official Nazfyratu Architectural Guide to New York City (tm). But you should definitely see the main waiting room of Grand Central Station. It's my favorite indoor public space in NYC. It's truly grand. And free.

Another great public space is Central Park. If you have a nice, sunny, warm afternoon sometime in the middle of your trip, just hang out in Central Park - anywhere (it's huge). One cool thing is to [url="http://www.centralparkbiketour.com/"]rent a bike [/url]and ride around the park for a couple of hours. It should be perfect weather for that when you're there. (Note: Don't bother with the bike tour; just rent and ride around on your own.)

Ok, this is getting long and I'm getting tired of typing. If I think of anything else, I'll add it. Plus, I'm sure other NY boarders have more to contribute.

One more thing: let us know when you'll be here so that we can meet up, and possibly have Round Two of New Yorkers Embarrassing Themselves in Front of Europeans Night(tm) (aka karaoke).

[naz]

I just realized that, if you're going to see Museums in DC, you can probably go light on the NY museums. Far be it from me to downplay the merit of NY museums, but there's so much else to do in NYC, too. Plus the Smithsonian museums are free, free, free and all clustered right next to each other for ultimate convenience. For me, the Smithsonian is really the only reason to visit DC anymore.
[i]
[Sorry, Jaime! It's not that DC isn't good, it's just that I've been there about 25 times already.][/i]

Anyway, if you're going to be seeing the Smithsonian, then their space museum is better than ours, their Natural History museum is almost as good as ours, and their art museums don't come close to ours. Except that they're free. But they also have lots of other museums.

[Lord of Oop North]

[quote name='Xray the Enforcer' post='1484929' date='Aug 18 2008, 16.54']As for Statue of Liberty -- I say take the Staten Island Ferry (free, and it goes right by SoL),[/quote]
I agree. The line and security for the Statue of Liberty was ridiculous. It took a few hours just to get to the first security checkpoint (before even being loaded on the ferry).

[Mr. X]

What naz said.

My two favorite recommendations are to ride the Staten Island Ferry in the evening (you get good views of New York Harbor, the Statue of Liberty, and a free sunset cruise) and to walk over the Brooklyn Bridge (it's a pleasant walk and you get fantastic views of Manhattan, plus the bridge itself is beautiful).

Walking up Broadway is a good time as well -- depending on how far you feel like walking, you can see a lot of different neighborhoods and a number of famous buildings as you go.

Museum wise, I'll add two great outer borough destinations. One is the [url="http://mta.info/mta/museum/index.html"]NYC Transit Museum[/url] in downtown Brooklyn, which tells the history of the NY subway and features a lot of classic subway cars you can walk around. The other is the [url="http://www.queensmuseum.org/index.htm"]Queens Museum of Art[/url], which features changing modern art installations alongside the "Panorama of the City of New York", an enormous scale model of the entire city. It's built on a 1 inch = 100 feet scale, and is one of the best ways to really appreciate the city as a whole.

Also, the Queens Museum is next to Flushing, home to the best Chinese food in the city. And it's true, you must eat pizza while in NYC. Lombardi's is a mighty tasty and easy to find place if you feel like ordering a whole pie, although grabbing a slice and eating it on the sidewalk at any number of places is in some ways a more authentic experience. You should also get a bagel at some point.

I can't help much with good wine places, but if gin and cocktails your thing, then I've got some places for you. Our favorites are the [url="http://flatironlounge.com/"]Flatiron Lounge[/url], the [url="http://www.peguclub.com/"]Pegu Club[/url], and [url="http://www.deathandcompany.com/"]Death & Company[/url] in Manhattan, along with the [url="http://www.cloverclubny.com/"]Clover Club[/url] in Brooklyn. All of them specialize in old school cocktails, and pride themselves on their craft and attention to detail.

ETA: Oh, and to throw in my two cents on DC, definitely check out the Air & Space Museum and the Museum of American History. Best two museums on the Mall.

[dalThor]

[quote name='Mr. X' post='1485212' date='Aug 19 2008, 03.59']ETA: Oh, and to throw in my two cents on DC, definitely check out the Air & Space Museum and the Museum of American History. Best two museums on the Mall.[/quote]

I'm not a local by any means but I've been to DC several times. The above mentioned are the best things to see in DC.

[Isis]

I effectively had less than 24 hours to do touristy stuff in New York due to a delayed flight and a need to do BwB-based socialising for the first 24 hours after I got there. I got up early and queued for 40 minutes to do the Empire States Building as soon as it opened because that was preferable to queuing for 2-3 hours later in the day.

I also did the Circle Line three hour ferry trip around Manhattan which I enjoyed way more than I expected to. I usually avoid tour guide things like the plague, but this one was very informative, up to date, and interesting. Plus it was a way of seeing stuff whilst saving my poor feet. I love walking around in cities but I think I walked about ten miles a day while I was there - my feet and legs are still aching now. :)

I look forward to visiting DC one day...

[Xray the Enforcer]

I'm going to second (third?) the rec to NOT eat "Italian" in Little Italy. Little Italy does not exist anymore, except as some weird-ass tourist trap. The only reason to go there is to drink at Double Happiness, one of NYC's former speakeasies. And even then, there are way better former speakeasies to drink in than there.

There's some very nice dim sum in Chinatown (on Elizabeth street) on Saturdays and Sundays. Chinatown is very fun to walk around, although it can get crowded as hell. But there's good ice cream and tasty food and it definitely still has a whiff of the flavor of the past (the notorious Five Points immigrant slum of the mid-late 19th century was located where Chinatown is today).

The East and West Villages are good places for ambling through -- boutiques, cafes, etc abound. For shopping, there is 5th Avenue and there is SoHo. (and, BTW, "Houston" is pronounced "HOW-ston" not "HYOO-ston").

For your daily budget, avoid places like WD-50 and other marquee restaurants. Those meals will set you back your entire budget if you are not careful. I'm somewhat at a loss for recommendations of fancy places right now. Craft is pretty decent but pricey. Peter Luger has great steaks, but call now for reservations (or go at lunch). Avoid any restaurant that has a celebrity chef attached to it. TimeOut NY and New York magazine (nymag.com) are pretty reliable when it comes to making a decision on food.

[Arlingzen Bill]

When you need a little break from walking, hop on the blue line in the Direction of Franconia Springfield, take it to the Pentagon. If you want to see Arlington National Cemetary this is a good time to add it to the trip. At the Pentagon go up the escalators one leve and then transfer to a yellow line train heading back into the district (Mt. Vernon or Fort Toten) This will allow you to come into DC over the Potomac. Out of the left side of the train you can see the Washington and Jefferson Memorials... This is one of the more scenic views on metro...

Since you are staying in Dupont, you can easily get a city map and walk towards the White House. if you walk along 17th street (I think) you can get down to the National Mall near the WWII memorial between the Lincoln and Washington Monuments. If you walk from there towards the Washington monument you will start seeing the many buildings of the Smithsonian...

[BLU-RAY]

Some random recommendations: in DC, the Smithsonian has been recommended widely, and for good reason. Especially the Air & Space Museum, it's great. I dunno if it's too much of a downer for a vacation, but the Holocaust Museum there is very moving, to be sure, and the Vietnam War Memorial and Lincoln Memorial at night are both pretty intense.

Library of Congress & Supreme Court are OK; White House and its ilk are probably not worth it.

NYC, Naz has said pretty much all that needs to be said; I wanted to second John's for pizza, it might be the best I've ever had (though you can't get a slice there, have to get a pie). I'd definitely recommend the NYC Museum of Natural History, it's really good (dinosaurs!), and if memory serves, they have a pretty spiffy planetarium as well.

Art museums, I know I like the Met pretty well, and MoMA can be quite cool; I'd recommend looking around online and seeing what exhibits will be in town at what museums during your stay (for example, is the Kerouac exhibit still at the NY Public Library?).

[naz]

What Isis said about walking in NYC is true. In fact, we were even discussing it with everyone over dinner when we all met. You actually don't realize how much you've walked until later in the day, when all of a sudden it hits you and you're exhausted. That's why it's best to take frequent breaks. Stop at parks along the way and just sit for a half hour or so in each one and watch people walk by. NYC is great for people-watching, and it's one of my favorite things to do in the city.

If no parks are along your route (which is unlikely as NYC has many parks, ranging from little green triangles in scattered intersections to the massive Central Park), then stop at cafe's, bookstores, or even boutique shops that have chairs or sofas. In the residential neighborhoods, you can even usually sit on a stoop (i.e, front steps of a building) without anyone bothering you.

To get a real flavor of NYC, you should also spend some time in the outer boroughs, if you can. The X's can tell you all about Brooklyn's great neighborhoods, and Queens (where I grew up), while not as glamorous as Manhattan, has some wonderfully verdant and diverse ethnic neighborhoods, too. Visitors who spend their entire trip in Manhattan tend to think of New York as some fun-filled glamorous fashion city, when in fact there's much much more to it. And I'll be honest - most of the people you see in Manhattan are not native New Yorkers.

People also tend to avoid Harlem because of bad things they've heard, but Harlem is a wonderful thriving cultural section of New York with an amazing history of arts and music. Every neighborhood has some bad sections, but don't let the exaggerations scare you away.

That said, New York is major city and you should always be cautious of pickpockets and scam artists, especially in the touristy areas like Times Square or Rockefeller Center.

Another great place to visit (that few New Yorkers ever go to, sadly) is the [url="http://www.lsc.org/"]Liberty Science Center [/url]in Jersey City, NJ on the other side of the river. It's very easy to get to (see NY Waterway ferry and NJ Transit Light Rail) and is adjacent to [url="http://www.state.nj.us/dep/parksandforests/parks/liberty.html"]Liberty State Park[/url], which besides having a 36-acre wetland preserve and awesome views of the NY skyline, is also the place where we had a BwB picnic last year. :)

Unless you're a massive, obsessed fan of a NY-based TV show or movie, don't waste your time on any specialized theme tour, like the Seinfeld Tour or Sex in the City Tour. They are total rip-offs.

Finally, a little-known and great way to see the city is through [url="http://www.bigapplegreeter.org/"]Big Apple Greeters[/url]. It's a group of native New Yorkers who volunteer to take visitors around New York City on informal and unscripted walks. It's completely free and they usually take you to non-touristy neighborhoods that they know well. I've never known anyone that's done it, but I think it's a great concept and I've heard good things about them.

[naz]

Forgot one thing: Another quirky place to visit in NYC is Greenwood Cemetery in Brooklyn. Now, a cemetery might be the last place most people would want to visit, but when you think about it, it could be a nice experience. Greenwood is a very large and very beautiful cemetery and has graves of lots of famous dead people, if you're into that sort of thing. They even have guided tours. Just walking the grounds is like walking through a very beautiful park... a park with lots of dead folks in it, that is.

Woodlawn Cemetery in the Bronx also has lots of famous people buried there, but isn't quite as large.

[HokieStone]

I live in Northern Virginia, right outside of DC. Definitely recommend the Air&Space and Natural History museums of the Smithsonian. The Air&Space actually has a 2nd location, the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_F._Udvar-Hazy_Center"]Udvar-Hazy Center[/url], which is not in DC, but in Virginia, right next to Dulles Airport. The Udvar-Hazy Center may be more impressive than the original building, as it contains a ton of full-size aircraft, including the Space Shuttle Columbia, and SR-71, and the Enola Gay. Be warned, that even though entrance to the Udvar-Hazy museum is technically free, like all Smithsonian institutions, there's only one parking lot within miles...and they charge $12 to park.

Back to DC...of course there's the monuments...and you can see all the biggies (Washington Monument, Jefferson, Lincoln) just by walking up and down the Mall. You've also got the Capitol at one end, and the White House making a right angle with the Wash. Monument and Capitol. Come to think of it, the WWII memorial is right on the Mall as well, although I have yet to make it there (never made it to the top of the Wash. Monument either, and I'm a "native"). The Vietnam Memorial ("The Wall") is also tucked away to one side of the Mall. I'd also recommend the Franklin D. Roosevelt monument. There's also the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Cathedral"]National Cathedral[/url] to see. Across the river in Virginia is Arlington Cemetary, and the Marine Corps monument (famous Iwo Jima flag-raising statue).

If you want to venture a little further into Virginia, down in Manassas, there's the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manassas_National_Battlefield_Park"]Manassas Battlefield[/url], site of two Civil War battles. Also, in Virginia, right across the river from DC is Alexandria - particularly "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Town_Alexandria#Old_Town"]Old Town Alexandria[/url]". Lots of nice little places to eat and shop, and some Revolution-period (and before) history.

Also, Baltimore is an hour north of DC, and has an awesome [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Aquarium"]aquarium[/url]. It's located right in the "Inner Harbor" area of Baltimore, which is nice, if a bit touristy.

If you arrive before baseball season is over (because neither team will make the playoffs), you can try and catch a Washington Nationals or Baltimore Orioles game.

Sorry, I'm kinda scattered all over the place here. DC has a "Chinatown", but it's a bit pathetic...only one block, and located near the "Verizon Center" which hosts our NBA and NHL teams.

I don't eat in DC enough to recommend a specific place, but if you're looking for some nightlife, I'd recommend M Street, or Dupont Circle, or Adams Morgan...although all of those may be a bit touristy and/or filled with suburbanites coming into the city. If you're into beer, you can hit the "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brickskeller"]Brickskeller[/url]", which has thousands of beers from around the world.

Well, that's enough stream-of-consciousness rambling from me...

[naz]

[quote name='HokieStone' post='1486773' date='Aug 20 2008, 00.28']I live in Northern Virginia, right outside of DC. Definitely recommend the Air&Space and Natural History museums of the Smithsonian. The Air&Space actually has a 2nd location, the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_F._Udvar-Hazy_Center"]Udvar-Hazy Center[/url], which is not in DC, but in Virginia, right next to Dulles Airport. The Udvar-Hazy Center may be more impressive than the original building, as it contains a ton of full-size aircraft, including the Space Shuttle Columbia, and SR-71, and the Enola Gay. Be warned, that even though entrance to the Udvar-Hazy museum is technically free, like all Smithsonian institutions, there's only one parking lot within miles...and they charge $12 to park.[/quote]

Wow. I never knew about this place. Will have to check it out next time. (Btw, sorry to nitpick, but it's the Shuttle [i]Enterprise[/i], not [i]Columbia[/i], which sadly no longer exists.)

[Xray the Enforcer]

[quote name='nazfyratu' post='1486952' date='Aug 20 2008, 07.27']Wow. I never knew about this place. Will have to check it out next time. (Btw, sorry to nitpick, but it's the Shuttle [i]Enterprise[/i], not [i]Columbia[/i], which sadly no longer exists.)[/quote]

It's awesome. Went there when it first opened up, and I can totally recommend it.

[Arlingzen Bill]

[quote name='HokieStone' post='1486773' date='Aug 20 2008, 00.28']I live in Northern Virginia, right outside of DC. Definitely recommend the Air&Space and Natural History museums of the Smithsonian. The Air&Space actually has a 2nd location, the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_F._Udvar-Hazy_Center"]Udvar-Hazy Center[/url], which is not in DC, but in Virginia, right next to Dulles Airport. The Udvar-Hazy Center may be more impressive than the original building, as it contains a ton of full-size aircraft, including the Space Shuttle Columbia, and SR-71, and the Enola Gay. Be warned, that even though entrance to the Udvar-Hazy museum is technically free, like all Smithsonian institutions, there's only one parking lot within miles...and they charge $12 to park.[/quote]

I believe there is a shuttle from the main A&S museum out to the annex by Dulles.

[HokieStone]

[quote name='nazfyratu' post='1486952' date='Aug 20 2008, 07.27']Wow. I never knew about this place. Will have to check it out next time. (Btw, sorry to nitpick, but it's the Shuttle [i]Enterprise[/i], not [i]Columbia[/i], which sadly no longer exists.)[/quote]


Awww....crap, I can't believe I made that mistake. I'm a big space nut, and that's just a dumb mistake to make...I can tell you exactly where I was when both Challenger and Columbia had their accidents. Columbia was particularly personal to me... :cry:

Well anyway, you're right of course...it's the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Enterprise"]Enterprise[/url] - the first one built, which was never a fully operational shuttle, but used to test the atmospheric dynamics and control of the shuttle design ("launched" off of the back of a 747).