NFL Week 2

[awesome possum]

[quote name='Rockroi' post='1526890' date='Sep 22 2008, 06.49']Hello Chicago; now time to learn that you cannot blame every loss on your shit-tacular QBs. See, sometimes, you have to be professionals for the WHOLE 60 min of the game.[/quote]

I don't think that's it at all. I think the problem with the Bears defense is that they play too hard too early and thus by the games end they're too gassed to protect the lead.

They play so damned hard, forcing turnovers and helping to give the offense great field position, and the offense doesn't do jack with it. By the time the offense does come alive and put points on the board, the defense is too wore out and tired to make a difference. If they could just keep a bit of a reserve in the tank to make those vital 4th quarter stops, the Bears would be 3-0 right now.

Of course, stupid ass penalties don't help matters at all. It's weird how the Bears have players who turn huge 180s through the course of a game. Tillman got a great forced fumble, and played most of the game like the elite player he is only to throw that all away with a penalty that almost surely cost the team the game. It's like Hester against the Colts (I think it was against the Colts)- just his presense on the field gives the offense great field position and he can turn a kickoff into 6 points easily, but then he does something stupid and either fumbles or causes the offense to start on their own 4.

Is there any other team in football that takes its own achievments and flushes them down the toilet quite as magnificently as the Bears do?

[Kalbear]

Okay, I have to say it

I was pretty giddy when I heard that the Pats lost 38-13 to the Dolphins at home.

But when I heard they gave up 4 scores to the wildcat formation, that just made me positively gleeful. To see Bellichick completely flummoxed by the notion of a direct snap to the RB and having to cover the wily Pennington...hee.

I said it before, I'll say it again: the weak spot of the Patriots is their LB corps. Their second worst spot is their secondary. If you can attack their LBs quickly, they will have problems. If you can exploit matchups with two decent WR threats, they'll have problems. Miami basically gave the blueprint on how to beat the Pats this season. Not all teams will be able to do it, but at this point I expect Buffalo to at least split their games, the Jets to win the other one, the Colts to win, SD, Denver and Pitt to win...we might be looking at an 8-8 team this year. W00t. But mostly - how about that wildcat offense? That's awesome. Great highlights

Also, for the random person who decreed that Pitt's offensive line is not the biggest problem that team has...well, now you're starting Leftwich. The Eagles got 9 sacks on you. And even with both their starting QB and RB out, you couldn't manage to score more than 6 points. Your RB ran for about 30 yards total. You lost this game entirely because your OLine sucked.
[quote]I don't think that's it at all. I think the problem with the Bears defense is that they play too hard too early and thus by the games end they're too gassed to protect the lead.[/quote]I don't think that's the problem at all. The problem with the Bears defense is that they simply do not change their plans to stop the opposing team when things aren't working right for them. We saw this a few years back against Carolina, where Steve Smith simply crushed them for the entire game. And they just went back into their zone, didn't bother changing anything, etc. We saw this in the superbowl, where they sold out to stop the pass and got killed by the running game. And we saw it today, where they stacked the box the entire game and said "Griese, beat us". Which Griese obliged. After Griese showed some success they still were stacking the box or going into their prevent defense.

And all that being said, I think the Bears win if they call that shitty personal foul correctly.

GOD DAMN FUCKING FORMATTING BAH

[awesome possum]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527089' date='Sep 22 2008, 09.21']I don't think that's the problem at all. The problem with the Bears defense is that they simply do not change their plans to stop the opposing team when things aren't working right for them. We saw this a few years back against Carolina, where Steve Smith simply crushed them for the entire game. And they just went back into their zone, didn't bother changing anything, etc. We saw this in the superbowl, where they sold out to stop the pass and got killed by the running game. And we saw it today, where they stacked the box the entire game and said "Griese, beat us". Which Griese obliged. After Griese showed some success they still were stacking the box or going into their prevent defense.

And all that being said, I think the Bears win if they call that shitty personal foul correctly.[/quote]

I agree about the playcalling. Their defense works through most of the game, it does the job to near-perfection. And then with the lead they go to prevent which only ends up preventing the Bears from adding to the win column.

The penalty should have been offset. It's bullshit that the player to push back almost always gets the foul, and reading interviews with Michael Clayton shows what a piece of shit he is. Sure, it's part of the game, but the guy was bragging about getting away with his personal foul and causing Tillman to snap. As if he deserves a pat on the back for getting a cheap shot that rightfully pissed off the guy who was cheap-shotted.

[Week]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527089' date='Sep 22 2008, 12.21']Okay, I have to say it

I was pretty giddy when I heard that the Pats lost 38-13 to the Dolphins at home.

But when I heard they gave up 4 scores to the wildcat formation, that just made me positively gleeful. To see Bellichick completely flummoxed by the notion of a direct snap to the RB and having to cover the wily Pennington...hee.[/quote]
Get back under your bridge.
[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527089' date='Sep 22 2008, 12.21']I said it before, I'll say it again: [u]the weak spot of the Patriots is their LB corps[/u]. [u]Their second worst spot is their secondary[/u]. If you can attack their LBs quickly, they will have problems.[/quote]
Wow, pretty impressive that you figured that out like everyone else did from the start of the season. How could anyone not pick out those two spots as the weaknesses??? At the start of the season the Pats had top 5 OLine, DLine, QB, WR corps, and decent running backs. What else could even have been considered the weak spots? I'm shocked you didn't point out QB as an issue, I think that is something that a lot of people missed.
[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527089' date='Sep 22 2008, 12.21']If you can [u]exploit matchups with two decent WR threats, they'll have problems.[/u] Miami basically gave the blueprint on how to beat the Pats this season.[/quote]
These sentences are contradictory. You say that two decent WR threats will do it, and then that Miami gave the blueprint on how to win. Miami doesn't have two decent WR threats.

Anyways, I think an underrated issue that stems from the Brady injury is how much he helped the defense. The Pats scored on their first drive something like 15/16 games last year in the regular season, which is just ridiculous. That forces the other team to very quickly change up their gameplan in many cases, causing a lot of issues.

Time for the Matt Cassel experiment to end and the O'Connell era to begin IMO. Cassel doesn't have the cojones to throw the long ball and he just doesn't have a head to go with his arm.

[quote name='awesome possum' post='1527109' date='Sep 22 2008, 12.38']The penalty should have been offset. It's bullshit that the player to push back almost always gets the foul, and reading interviews with Michael Clayton shows what a piece of shit he is. Sure, it's part of the game, but the guy was bragging about getting away with his personal foul and causing Tillman to snap. As if he deserves a pat on the back for getting a cheap shot that rightfully pissed off the guy who was cheap-shotted.[/quote]
The retaliator always gets caught.

[awesome possum]

[quote name='Weekapaug' post='1527111' date='Sep 22 2008, 09.39']The retaliator always gets caught.[/quote]

Oh, I know. I think they should make that reviewable, or challengable or something. Especially in instances like that, where the first player's actions were intentionally dirty and which probably cost a team the game.

[Week]

[quote name='awesome possum' post='1527123' date='Sep 22 2008, 12.47']Oh, I know. I think they should make that reviewable, or challengable or something. Especially in instances like that, where the first player's actions were intentionally dirty and which probably cost a team the game.[/quote]
I don't know about reviewing penalties, seems like it leaves way too much of the game open for review that a lot of ticky-tacky things could get picked up that were missed initially. Just don't like the idea.

[Bronn Stone]

[quote name='Weekapaug' post='1527138' date='Sep 22 2008, 09.59']I don't know about reviewing penalties, seems like it leaves way too much of the game open for review that a lot of ticky-tacky things could get picked up that were missed initially. Just don't like the idea.[/quote]

I agree. But I'd like to see VERY long suspensions from the league office after the more blatant things. Three or four games.

Of course, I think the suspensions for drug use (especially drugs that give competitive advantage) are way too short. Should be two years, not four games.

[Rockroi]

[quote]Of course, stupid ass penalties don't help matters at all. It's weird how the Bears have players who turn huge 180s through the course of a game. Tillman got a great forced fumble, and played most of the game like the elite player he is only to throw that all away with a penalty that almost surely cost the team the game.[/quote]

This was what I was referring to.

[quote]Not all teams will be able to do it, but at this point I expect Buffalo to at least split their games, the Jets to win the other one, the Colts to win, SD, Denver and Pitt to win...we might be looking at an 8-8 team this year. W00t.[/quote]

Try to not be so joyful all over your keyboard.

My fear is that this team will be BAD in games they have to win. Forget SD and Indy- there is a chance we could get steamrolled by San Fran! We have to stop this bleeding and we cannot rely on the “high octane” O to do it. Hence, the major problem. We could still go 10-6 but to do that we have to have a resurgence at LB and our DBs have to do more than break-well from the huddle.

[b]Weekapaug:[/b]

[quote]Anyways, I think an underrated issue that stems from the Brady injury is how much he helped the defense. The Pats scored on their first drive something like 15/16 games last year in the regular season, which is just ridiculous. That forces the other team to very quickly change up their gameplan in many cases, causing a lot of issues.[/quote]

I completely agree. The fact that Brady could hand the game over to the D with the lead, keep them off the field, avoid costly errors, and make the opposing O HAVE TO answer was a remarkable part of being a great QB (Manning does this as well). Its why the team aspect of the game is so critical. At the same time, the D IS old (tho, I agree that only a master tactician of unprecedented brilliance could have correctly called that the Pats LBs and DBs were the issue). The defense has to play better. If they are incapable, the season is over.

[quote]Time for the Matt Cassel experiment to end and the O'Connell era to begin IMO. Cassel doesn't have the cojones to throw the long ball and he just doesn't have a head to go with his arm.[/quote]

If its going to happen one week, it would be this one. Bye week to learn the system, etc. At the same time, the Pats made this bed when they stated after W1 that Cassel is the starter. To bring in O’Connell could be a problem if THAT does not work. I think the Pats have to tough this out a little more and see what both men can do. I think it sucks hard because I think Cassel is a lot of problems waiting to happen.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='Rockroi' post='1526890' date='Sep 22 2008, 09.49']Cowbody are the best team in football, are on a TEAR and play really hard. The NFC is the tougher conference at this point in the season; the Cowboys its best team.[/quote]

Yep, unfortunately. What's remarkable is how every AFC big time contender's greatest strength has become a weakness due to injuries. Patriots offense is a shell of itself without Brady, not sure when (if) the Colts offense will be what we've come to expect, Chargers defense hasn't gotten any pressure all year without Merriman (we'll see about tonight) and until facing the Colts the Jags couldn't run the ball without their guards. And I ran for 150 and a score against the Colts defense a couple weeks back so that's not saying much.

Dallas, Philly (and even the Giants...for now) look more solid because they're not one dimensional, depending on one unit to carry them.

[quote]The Eagles v. Steelers was a bloodbath and a great game. Not every "great" game has to be a shootout. Eagles bounced RIGHT back from the Cowboys and whupped the Steelers. Hope everyone comes back healthy.[/quote]

Wouldn't be too unhappy if Westbrook were to miss, say, the next two weeks.

[Kalbear]

[quote]Get back under your bridge.[/quote]Nope!

Still happy. Happy happy happy. To see Belichick so thoroughly outcoached was awesome. Some Pats fans cheer about the Manning face, right? Well, I cheer about the Belichick face.

[quote]Try to not be so joyful all over your keyboard.[/quote] I'll try, but Belichick's face in the press conference was brilliant.

[quote]At the same time, the D IS old (tho, I agree that only a master tactician of unprecedented brilliance could have correctly called that the Pats LBs and DBs were the issue). The defense has to play better. If they are incapable, the season is over.[/quote]Considering how much you and week and CB argued with me that the LB corps were totally fine and the DB was actually somehow improved despite losing Samuel and everyone being a year older...okay. Sorry that your memory fails you here. I'm just glad to see that I was right and that the Pats are likely going to suffer some. How's that rookie of the year LB looking for you?

[quote]These sentences are contradictory. You say that two decent WR threats will do it, and then that Miami gave the blueprint on how to win. Miami doesn't have two decent WR threats.[/quote]They do, actually. They're not stellar, but Ginn and Camarillo weren't horrible. That's really all they need - two vaguely competent WRs. Having a TE helps a lot too. I honestly don't know whether this will be enough for some teams; Pennington has never had worldbeater arm strength but he's always been one of the most accurate passers in the league, and that helps a lot. Now, a team that has basically one WR and nothing else might suck, but chances are they won't.

Seriously, 9 catches between Ginn and Camarillo. Can you imagine what Harrison/Wayne is going to do?

[Nymeria Sand]

God, I hate it when I'm right. Our offensive line sucks. The score of that game should have been 50-0 the way the Steelers' offense played. If it weren't for the defense it would have been a lot worse. :(

[Week]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527199' date='Sep 22 2008, 13.51']Still happy. Happy happy happy. To see Belichick so thoroughly outcoached was awesome. Some Pats fans cheer about the Manning face, right? Well, I cheer about the Belichick face.[/quote]
We don't go to boards with Indy fans that have a history of being the center of enormous and obnoxious arguments (both sides) to gloat.

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527199' date='Sep 22 2008, 13.51']Considering how much you and week and CB argued with me that the LB corps were totally fine and the DB was actually somehow improved despite losing Samuel and everyone being a year older...okay. Sorry that your memory fails you here. I'm just glad to see that I was right and that the Pats are likely going to suffer some. How's that rookie of the year LB looking for you?[/quote]
I did not.

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527199' date='Sep 22 2008, 13.51']They do, actually. They're not stellar, but Ginn and Camarillo weren't horrible. That's really all they need - two vaguely competent WRs. Having a TE helps a lot too. I honestly don't know whether this will be enough for some teams; Pennington has never had worldbeater arm strength but he's always been one of the most accurate passers in the league, and that helps a lot. Now, a team that has basically one WR and nothing else might suck, but chances are they won't.[/quote]
You said decent threats, now you've changed your meaning to "two vaguely decent wide receivers are all you need".

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527199' date='Sep 22 2008, 13.51']Seriously, 9 catches between Ginn and Camarillo. Can you imagine what Harrison/Wayne is going to do?[/quote]
I can. Frankly, the only thing keeping them under 250 yds and 2 tds combined will be Anthony Gonzalez (or maybe Clark, he always has huge games against the Pats).

[Jaime L]

[quote name='Nymeria Sand' post='1527202' date='Sep 22 2008, 13.54']God, I hate it when I'm right. Our offensive line sucks. The score of that game should have been 50-0 the way the Steelers' offense played. If it weren't for the defense it would have been a lot worse. :([/quote]

Was amazed how good that offense was last year with an O-line that bad. Roethlisberger made more happen on sheer willpower alone than anyone in the league. He also has a tendency to hold the ball too long looking for the perfect play..and that might get him killed this year. Smart D Coordinators like Jim Johnson are just going to bring the house all day long until Pittsburgh shows they can block it. He's a tough guy, big and mobile, but he's not going to make it through too many more games like Sunday.

[Kalbear]

[quote]We don't go to boards with Indy fans that have a history of being the center of enormous and obnoxious arguments (both sides) to gloat.[/quote]This isn't a board dedicated to the Pats. And I'm fairly certain there's been plenty of Pats fans here gloating when Indy loses. Suck it up. Because honestly, it's only gonna get worse as the season goes on.

To be clear - I'm bummed that Brady is gone, and the NFL is poorer for it. But I will never, ever get tired of Belichick's obnoxious ass being emo after losing a game because his team was completely confused by a scheme that is a gimmick in college.

LT is licking his chops right now.

And yes, it's damn funny that Belichick got outcoached by Tony Sparano.

[quote]You said decent threats, now you've changed your meaning to "two vaguely decent wide receivers are all you need".[/quote]Yes, I did. Miami showed that all you need is two decent threats to tear up the Pats secondary. Miami doesn't have those - they have Ginn and Camarillo. I'll try and explain in another way, since there seems to be some confusion. Miami managed to do well with Ginn and Camarillo as their WR threats, completing 9 passes to them in easy fashion simply by passing to wherever Hobbs is guarding. Now, that's with two fairly meh receivers. What do you think two decent receivers are going to do?

[Bronn Stone]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527231' date='Sep 22 2008, 11.14']This isn't a board dedicated to the Pats. And I'm fairly certain there's been plenty of Pats fans here gloating when Indy loses. Suck it up. Because honestly, it's only gonna get worse as the season goes on.[/quote]

Plenty of gloating over the Chargers problems as well - most of which are injury-driven.

[Week]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527231' date='Sep 22 2008, 14.14']This isn't a board dedicated to the Pats. And I'm fairly certain there's been plenty of Pats fans here gloating when Indy loses. Suck it up. Because honestly, it's only gonna get worse as the season goes on.[/quote]
Where did I say that it was dedicated to the Pats? Show me where I said this. My point was that there are a significant amount of Pats fans and a history of this thread getting side-tracked by them and by those deriding them and the Pats. I'd prefer that not happen, which was why I asked you to go back under your bridge.

eta- Frankly, the Miami game shouldn't be that shocking other than the precise why by which it happened. The Pats struggled to beat the Chiefs and we've all seen what the Chiefs have done since that game.

[Rhom]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527231' date='Sep 22 2008, 14.14']But I will never, ever get tired of Belichick's obnoxious ass being emo after losing a game because his team was completely confused by a scheme that is a gimmick in college.[/quote]

Well... to be fair... I thought he looked/sounded exactly the same this Sunday as he has every Sunday for the last two years when they were winning.

[Nymeria Sand]

[quote name='Jaime L' post='1527223' date='Sep 22 2008, 14.08']Was amazed how good that offense was last year with an O-line that bad. Roethlisberger made more happen on sheer willpower alone than anyone in the league. He also has a tendency to hold the ball too long looking for the perfect play..and that might get him killed this year. Smart D Coordinators like Jim Johnson are just going to bring the house all day long until Pittsburgh shows they can block it. He's a tough guy, big and mobile, but he's not going to make it through too many more games like Sunday.[/quote]
Nope. He's going to get murdered. Eight offensive plays, five sacks, two turnovers. Not counting that lost fumble in the 4th quarter. What happened yesterday was so ugly it was painful. I want to know what Tomlin was thinking when he went for it on 4th and whatever that late in the game. (And they were still in it, go figure. Until that last field goal by the Eagles, it was a one-score game.) You have to score twice anyway--kick the damned field goal and do an onside kick.

[Kalbear]

[quote]We don't go to boards with Indy fans that have a history of being the center of enormous and obnoxious arguments (both sides) to gloat.[/quote]The implication is that I was going to a board with Pats fans. That's true, but it's not exclusively yours.

Sorry to tell you this, but most people out there that aren't Pats fans don't like the Pats. You are the Yankees of the NFL. People are going to have glee when your dick of a head coach gets beat. If you have a problem with that, you're going to have a problem for a number of years coming.

Tell you what, Week. I'll stop beaming about how bad the Pats looked when I stop seeing any Pats fans saying anything about Manning Face, LT crying or anything to do with the Jets sucking. Ok?

[Rockroi]

[quote]Considering how much you and week and CB argued with me that the LB corps were totally fine and the DB was actually somehow improved despite losing Samuel and everyone being a year older...okay. Sorry that your memory fails you here. I'm just glad to see that I was right and that the Pats are likely going to suffer some. How's that rookie of the year LB looking for you?[/quote]

I never said anything of the sort. The LBs are old. My hope was that Mayo would develop and Thomas would come around (both are happening, btw). The DBs have ALWAYS been a concern. Its not memory that is failing me here. It is your after-the-fact “vindication” on points many were making BESIDES YOU! I am sorry YOUR memory is failing you here.

But I am glad that you are getting joy NOT from you team doing so well, but because my own is suffering so much. And all it took was a career-threatening injury to our star QB and the dissolution of our D over 7 years to make that happen.

And Kal, I LOVE this new morality you have developed: NONE of us is allowed to mock other teams? WOW! Way to put your foot down there! Because the Jets DON'T Suck? But ... but KAL... YOU SAID THEY SUCKED LAST WEEK! Don't you rememeber? I guess its okay when you do it, but when a Pats fan does it... THE GALLOWS!!!

[quote]This isn't a board dedicated to the Pats. And I'm fairly certain there's been plenty of Pats fans here gloating when Indy loses. Suck it up.[/quote]

I gloat only in the Manning face. And I ALSO stated specifically that Manning was what won them week 2. And I gave him all the props for duming the Pats in the 2006 AFC Championship game. So.. yeah… whatever you say kal…

Week:

At a certain point you have to understand one thing about kal: he does not actually read our posts for information; he simply “remembers” what they say and then claims he was right… and facts have little to do with it.

But its all miserable hair-splitting at this point. The Pats are in VERY BAD shape. And if I was doing the “Evil Patriots” last season (which was great) I also have to stand here and take my drumming when the Pats look like 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag. That’s the thing: my fandom was rewarded by 3 Superbowls and playoff bids in 6 of the last 7 seasons, to say nothing of a 16-0 regular season, and the most wildly successful offense ever. I got my time in the lime light for my team; and in sports THAT’S ALL YOU CAN HOPE FOR! Others? Not so much.

If others have to revel in, not THEIR TEAM’S success but in the misfortune of other teams, that is their … slice of heaven I guess. Sucks to be them. Maybe one day their team will make it to the Superbowl, just to be shat on by a Manning … SEE? We all have something in common!