NFL Week 2

[Kalbear]

[quote]I never said anything of the sort. The LBs are old. My hope was that Mayo would develop and Thomas would come around (both are happening, btw).[/quote]You said that Mayo would be DROY. I'll go find the specific post if you like, but the implication was that the LB corps was better than ever. Well, it's now the weakest link.

[quote]At a certain point you have to understand one thing about kal: he does not actually read our posts for information; he simply “remembers” what they say and then claims he was right… and facts have little to do with it.[/quote]When you actually start being consistent from week to week and actually give some information I might start reading it.

[quote]And Kal, I LOVE this new morality you have developed: NONE of us is allowed to mock other teams? WOW! Way to put your foot down there! Because the Jets DON'T Suck? But ... but KAL... YOU SAID THEY SUCKED LAST WEEK! Don't you rememeber? I guess its okay when you do it, but when a Pats fan does it... THE GALLOWS!![/quote]Try and read what I wrote. Week told me to leave because I was gloating about the Pats losing. I told him that I'll stop gloating about the Pats losing when Pats fans stop gloating about their least favorite teams losing. If you don't understand that connection, you really fail.

I have no problem with you gloating about Indy sucking, or about the Jets sucking. I have no real problem with anyone having some genuine schadenfreude about their least favorite teams dying in a glorious fire. Week, however, does, but only when it's against the Pats. Try and read a bit, Rock. It'll help more.

[Week]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527280' date='Sep 22 2008, 14.45']Try and read what I wrote. Week told me to leave because I was gloating about the Pats losing. I told him that I'll stop gloating about the Pats losing when Pats fans stop gloating about their least favorite teams losing. If you don't understand that connection, you really fail.[/quote]
I told you to leave? Dude, this is turning into exactly what I didn't want it to. My point wasn't for you to leave it was to stop trolling, you are fishing for negative reactions.
[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527280' date='Sep 22 2008, 14.45']Week, however, does, but only when it's against the Pats. Try and read a bit, Rock. It'll help more.[/quote]
You missed the point by a fucking longshot.

[Young Wolf]

Oh man...I think James Lofton is going to be the new HC in Oakland. I pray its not Rob Ryan though. I really need a new team.

YW

[CelticBrennus]

[quote]The DBs have ALWAYS been a concern. Its not memory that is failing me here. It is your after-the-fact “vindication” on points many were making BESIDES YOU! I am sorry YOUR memory is failing you here.[/quote]

QFT. The contention that I made was that the DB's needed time to gel and get everyone on the same page after the turnover in the off season.

As for the Miami game. Christ, I have no freaking clue what happened. Everything on D fell apart at the same goddamned time. It wasnt just the db's or the lb'ers, it was the dl too. Everyone looked half asleep out there.

[AndyP]

[quote name='Young Wolf' post='1527293' date='Sep 22 2008, 13.54']Oh man...I think James Lofton is going to be the new HC in Oakland. I pray its not Rob Ryan though. I really need a new team.

YW[/quote]
YDub

It's not your team so much as the fact that your team is owned by the Dark Prince himself. You see when you sold your soul for winning those Superbowls, back in the day, you now have to pay with an eternity in hell. :D :devil:

[Young Wolf]

[quote name='AndyP' post='1527314' date='Sep 22 2008, 15.01']YDub

It's not your team so much as the fact that your team is owned by the Dark Prince himself. You see when you sold your soul for winning those Superbowls, back in the day, you now have to pay with an eternity in hell. :D :devil:[/quote]

Dude I was like 10 back then! I didnt comprehend what a soul was letting alone how costly selling it would be!!

[Kalbear]

Actually, I need to apologize. Rock had said nice quotes like the Pats should go with throwback jerseys and some of their players can just wear their old clothes. It was 14d that was all gung-ho about the awesomeness of the young Pats D:

[quote]Ouch, come on now, with 2008 Defensive Rookie of the Year Jerod Mayo, Guyton, Wheatly and Woods you are gonna see some good young talent on defense.[/quote]

Rock didn't say anything of the sort. So, I'm sorry, Rock, for misremembering. A lot of the Pats homerism blends together, especially when y'all have a habit of EMPHASIZING words in a SPECIFIC WAY.

And just so we're clear - I still don't have a problem with people gloating about their least favorite team sucking. I do have a problem with people happy about injuries - that's classless and vile. But for a coach getting pwned? Not a problem in the least. If you have a problem with other people being happy your team sucked, Week, that's on you.

Rock - good points on the Bears, too. They've had singularly horrible drafts, have shown amazing gaffes in their coaching, and have been propped up by a weak conference. They haven't had a solid starting QB since Jim McMahon. At least their sole superbowl win was against the Pats. But yeah, as an NFL fan? The bears are miserable. Our OLine is a shambles, our defense is looking hideous (when Brian Griese and Tampa Bay's receivers beat you, it's a sad day), and our coaching staff is totally inept. We had the opportunity to draft good QBs twice in the last 3 years, and instead wasted it on bad RBs, bad OLinemen, and odd defensive picks.

There's still hope here and there, but not a lot. Our defense is simply not at the point where it can singlehandedly win games like it did against Arizona. It needs some help on offense. And it just isn't there.

[grozeng]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527199' date='Sep 22 2008, 13.51']Pennington has never had worldbeater arm strength but he's [s]always been one of [/s]the most accurate passers in the league, and that helps a lot. Now, a team that has basically one WR and nothing else might suck, but chances are they won't.[/quote]

Fixed this for you.

The Jets have 2 pretty good WRs but I think the rules get thrown out when the Jets play the Pats.

[AndyP]

[quote name='Young Wolf' post='1527329' date='Sep 22 2008, 14.05']Dude I was like 10 back then! I didnt comprehend what a soul was letting alone how costly selling it would be!![/quote]

That's ok I am a Saints fan, I was born in helll. :pirate:

[Bronn Stone]

[quote name='grozeng' post='1527360' date='Sep 22 2008, 12.17']The Jets have 2 pretty good WRs but I think the rules get thrown out when the Jets play the Pats.[/quote]

Reviewing tapes of the respective coaching staffs, I'd have to agree. :P

[Kalbear]

On the saints: it's interesting to note that the definitive Leinart/Young/Bush thing looked to be a bust at the beginning of the year, and Williams looked to be such a win...and now that's changing. Bush appears to be really shining in the WR with the occasional run role he's doing, and between that and punt/kick returns he's doing very, very well. Williams is kinda boom and bust. Sometimes he looks totally awesome (did well against Pitt...but I'm not sure what that means given how bad Pitt's line is) and sometimes he looks horrible (totally disappeared against Tenn).

I don't think Bush is going to be the second coming of jesus, but I do think he's going to be one of the better slot backs/rb passing threats in the league soon, and appears to be coming nicely into the Westbrook mold. Pity the Saints don't have a secondary or any kind of defensive line rush.

[AndyP]

With the Saints it's either we have D and no O or we have a good O and no D or we just generally suck. What I don't understand is where is McAlister he is supposed to be healthy so why not use him when they had the ball on the goal line an can't get in. Also on the Denver goal line stand what is Bush doing on the sideline. Even if your going to just plunge up the middle why not have him there as a decoy.

[grozeng]

[quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1527370' date='Sep 22 2008, 15.19']Reviewing tapes of the respective coaching staffs, I'd have to agree. :P[/quote]

Not what I meant at all (but made me laugh).

[Rockroi]

Kal:

I’m a homer; never claimed otherwise. Glad we got back on the same page here. And I completely remember my quote about the throwback jerseys. I tortured some joke that some guys actually HAVE the old Pats uniforms (utterly untrue, but it shows what I thought of the Pats LBs- old, slow, tough as nails, smart, and possibly dinosaurs). And I think Mayo will STILL be good, but I probably would have never said he was DROY; I am lousy at those types of predictions (college to pro transition is not a strong suit of mine).

I always thought the LBs were going to struggle and just did what others did: crossed my fingers and hoped another Asante Samuel would rise form the ashes of our DBs… well we got the ashes… not much else. (Mad props to Ellis Hobbs who never quit the whole game). However, did I think it would be 38-13 bad? Against the Dolphins? We got old and its not like this was some new issue that propped up. We were old in 2006! We knew this was coming.

And lost in this? I agree that the Pats were out-coached! They ran the “wildcat/zero-read option” a bunch of times and it ran rough shot over the Pats. And yes, I understand that the Pats were troubled by this. But there was zero adjustment in the second half. My team got pwned by a gimmick formation that would never make it into a really bad football screenplay…

[quote]A lot of the Pats homerism blends together, especially when y'all have a habit of EMPHASIZING words in a SPECIFIC WAY.[/quote]

Wasn’t it you who said you read everything I write as if Al Pachino was saying it? I think that could help.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527383' date='Sep 22 2008, 15.23']On the saints: it's interesting to note that the definitive Leinart/Young/Bush thing looked to be a bust at the beginning of the year, and Williams looked to be such a win...and now that's changing. Bush appears to be really shining in the WR with the occasional run role he's doing, and between that and punt/kick returns he's doing very, very well. Williams is kinda boom and bust. Sometimes he looks totally awesome (did well against Pitt...but I'm not sure what that means given how bad Pitt's line is) and sometimes he looks horrible (totally disappeared against Tenn).

I don't think Bush is going to be the second coming of jesus, but I do think he's going to be one of the better slot backs/rb passing threats in the league soon, and appears to be coming nicely into the Westbrook mold. Pity the Saints don't have a secondary or any kind of defensive line rush.[/quote]

Least Young and Leinart have completely dropped out of this debate.

Agree that Bush has made up ground based on his play this year. He really has been pretty devastating as a short pass threat. He's not Brian Westbrook because he still doesn't scare a defense when he lines up in the backfield, unlike Westbrook who's a threat for 8-10 yard carries up the middle. Infact the Redskins had an easy time bottling him up on all running plays. But he needs to constantly accounted for and if you become lax, he can shred your entire defense, like he did to Tampa in week 1 on a simple swing pass. When the Redskins played them, Greg Blache, the D coordinator was absolutely effusive in his praise and focused his scheme on stopping Bush first, which it did pretty damn well, but Bush still ended up with 80 yards from scrimmage and a backbreaking punt return TD that almost won 'em the game. He's the reason Brees throws for 350+ most games, he makes the other Saints receivers better by his sheer presence and he'll have games like he did Sunday where he gets 150 yards from scrimmage as part of an offense that scores 32 points. Now if he can just learn how to become a force running between the tackles like Westbrook, Faulk and Barber all did.

[Slurktan]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1527383' date='Sep 22 2008, 15.23']On the saints: it's interesting to note that the definitive Leinart/Young/Bush thing looked to be a bust at the beginning of the year, and Williams looked to be such a win...and now that's changing. Bush appears to be really shining in the WR with the occasional run role he's doing, and between that and punt/kick returns he's doing very, very well. Williams is kinda boom and bust. Sometimes he looks totally awesome (did well against Pitt...but I'm not sure what that means given how bad Pitt's line is) and sometimes he looks horrible (totally disappeared against Tenn).

I don't think Bush is going to be the second coming of jesus, but I do think he's going to be one of the better slot backs/rb passing threats in the league soon, and appears to be coming nicely into the Westbrook mold. Pity the Saints don't have a secondary or any kind of defensive line rush.[/quote]

I think Bush will be considered a bust in the end even if he keeps up his current form. What he does well can be done well by much cheaper options than the number 2 or number 1 pick in the draft. Stud Defensive ends on the other hand.... well there aren't many and so are worth that high a pick and that kind of money.

[Winterfella]

[quote name='Nymeria Sand' post='1527202' date='Sep 22 2008, 13.54']God, I hate it when I'm right. Our offensive line sucks. The score of that game should have been 50-0 the way the Steelers' offense played. If it weren't for the defense it would have been a lot worse. :([/quote]

It was only a matter of time, and a decent opponent, until it was exploited. But what the hell did they expect? The line sucked last year, they lost Faneca, and did nothing in the offseason to improve it. They're comletely wasting their window of opportunity with Roethlisberger, not to mention shortening it by guaranteeing his imminent death.

Oh, and as for the lack of a field goal attempt at the end of the game, it seems as if end game strategy is not the forte of this coaching staff. Witness the playoff game last year against Jax that aforementioned coaching staff lost due to piss poor conservative playcalling.

If they don't win the next two games before getting to the real meat of their schedule, they're going to have a tough time, even in that division. And based on yesterday's game, I think one-and-done in the playoffs is about the highest achievement this team can hope for this year.

[Mexal]

[quote name='Jaime L' post='1527520' date='Sep 22 2008, 16.01']Least Young and Leinart have completely dropped out of this debate.

Agree that Bush has made up ground based on his play this year. He really has been pretty devastating as a short pass threat. He's not Brian Westbrook because he still doesn't scare a defense when he lines up in the backfield, unlike Westbrook who's a threat for 8-10 yard carries up the middle. Infact the Redskins had an easy time bottling him up on all running plays. But he needs to constantly accounted for and if you become lax, he can shred your entire defense, like he did to Tampa in week 1 on a simple swing pass. When the Redskins played them, Greg Blache, the D coordinator was absolutely effusive in his praise and focused his scheme on stopping Bush first, which it did pretty damn well, but Bush still ended up with 80 yards from scrimmage and a backbreaking punt return TD that almost won 'em the game. He's the reason Brees throws for 350+ most games, he makes the other Saints receivers better by his sheer presence and he'll have games like he did Sunday where he gets 150 yards from scrimmage as part of an offense that scores 32 points. Now if he can just learn how to become a force running between the tackles like Westbrook, Faulk and Barber all did.[/quote]

It took Westbrook several years to become what he is today. There was a time recently (2 years ago?) where Philly threw a ridiculous number of times due to the fact that they had no running game. It took 4 years for Westbrook to develop into the between tackles guy.


[quote name='Slurktan']I think Bush will be considered a bust in the end even if he keeps up his current form. What he does well can be done well by much cheaper options than the number 2 or number 1 pick in the draft. Stud Defensive ends on the other hand.... well there aren't many and so are worth that high a pick and that kind of money.[/quote]

I don't really agree. I think Bush can develop into a Brian Westbrook and if he does, then he's every bit worth that #2 pick. Everything Jaime said is 100% true and when a team has to game plan around you, it opens up things for your offense. It doesn't matter if you're the main contributor week in or week out, but if you make your offense leaps and bounds better by sheer presence with the added addition of being incredibly dangerous, then you're not a bust. I mean, this is only Bush's 3rd year and he already has 400 yards from scrimmage and even more total if we include his punt returns.

[Ser Paladin]

[quote name='Young Wolf' post='1527293' date='Sep 22 2008, 14.54']Oh man...I think James Lofton is going to be the new HC in Oakland. I pray its not Rob Ryan though. I really need a new team.[/quote]
Still plenty of room for out of state Eagles fans. Think about it... the AFC powers have imploded, the NFC West and Central are exhibition divisions this year, and while the Cowboys look good, they haven't won a playoff game in over 10 years.

The stars are aligned for the E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles.

[Bronn Stone]

[quote name='Ser Paladin' post='1527554' date='Sep 22 2008, 13.40']Still plenty of room for out of state Eagles fans. Think about it... the AFC powers have imploded, the NFC West and Central are exhibition divisions this year, and while the Cowboys look good, they haven't won a playoff game in over 10 years.

The stars are aligned for the E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles.[/quote]


The Chargers are still the class of their division and still have a fair-to-middlin' chance of HFA during the playoffs.

And besides the worst thing about being an Eagles fan is that even when things seem to be going well, you can get a surprise. You are just walking down the street and

OW! OW! OW! All my stars just got injured.

Suddenly it is Kevin Kolb to Lorenzo Booker and Jason Avant all day long.