The New New NFL thread

[TheAardvark]

[quote name='Tywin's Golden Deuce' post='1593994' date='Nov 19 2008, 10.11']As to the 1990 Giants being a bad team to win a Super Bowl is just stupid.[/quote]

For the record, I don't think that they were a "bad" team. I just felt that the Bills were going to win because they had Hostetler subbing for Simms, and I just didn't believe in Ottis; Simms was a great QB, but Hostetler was far from great, and that brings the team that played in the SB down a notch or two, even though they won.

Not sure if that makes sense, but I know what I am trying to say.

Oh, and I am a Bills fan, and have been for 20+ years, so...

[add-on]

ESPN has a [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3711012"]nice piece[/url] in which different players from around the league talk about how Sean Taylor's death affected them and the way they do things. I think it's always interesting to hear stuff like this straight from the athletes.

[Slurktan]

[quote name='Tywin's Golden Deuce' post='1593994' date='Nov 19 2008, 11.11']As to the 1990 Giants being a bad team to win a Super Bowl is just stupid. They had the best defense in the league that year, finished 13-3, and were only out of only one game all season. Sure their offense wasn't great, but as they proved twice now in the Super Bowl that a ball control offense and great defense will beat a great offense every time. Hell the 1990 team had hall of fame players on that team.[/quote]

I'm the one that brought up the '90 giants. They had the number 2 defense that year, not number 1. They had a running back on his last legs and a back up QB and no receivers to speak of. As for Hall of Famers, who else besides LT? While they had a great regular season record at 13-3 you have to look at their conference where only 5 teams were over .500 and an 8-8 team was in the playoffs.

The '07 Giants defense was worse but it was still serviceable particularly as it led the league by a considerable margin in sacks. Their offense was also potent. They also had a hall of fame player (Strahan).

I think the '07 Giants were better than the '90 Giants.

[The Brandon Stark]

[quote]I'm the one that brought up the '90 giants. They had the number 2 defense that year, not number 1.[/quote]

What I meant was scoring defense, which in my mind is much more important than total yards which I believe is how defenses are ranked by the NFL. They were giving up something like 13 points a game.

As far as records go and an 8-8 team in the playoffs, remember that was before parody in the NFL.

[Bronn Stone]

[quote name='Tywin's Golden Deuce' post='1594302' date='Nov 19 2008, 11.38']As far as records go and an 8-8 team in the playoffs, remember that was before parody in the NFL.[/quote]

This scores 98 out of 100 for 'unintentional Malapropisms changing the meaning of a sentence to Bronn's amusement'.

[Rockroi]

Bronn:

I used to make that mistake all the time.

[Swordfish]

[quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1594359' date='Nov 19 2008, 13.23']This scores 98 out of 100 for 'unintentional Malapropisms changing the meaning of a sentence to Bronn's amusement'.[/quote]


Ha. i was thinking the same thing....

Except of course i was considering my own amusement and not yours.

;)

[Bronn Stone]

[quote name='Swordfish' post='1594368' date='Nov 19 2008, 12.30']Ha. i was thinking the same thing....

Except of course i was considering my own amusement and not yours.

;)[/quote]

Yours doesn't matter. Me. Me. Me.

[grozeng]

[quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1594359' date='Nov 19 2008, 15.23']This scores 98 out of 100 for 'unintentional Malapropisms changing the meaning of a sentence to Bronn's amusement'.[/quote]

I thought he was just making fun of the Raiders :)

[Jaime L]

In fairness, parody has long existed in the NFL. Consider the Arizona Cardinals franchise, the old Buccaneers uniforms and Alex Karras.

[quote name='add-on' post='1594221' date='Nov 19 2008, 13.38']ESPN has a [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3711012"]nice piece[/url] in which different players from around the league talk about how Sean Taylor's death affected them and the way they do things. I think it's always interesting to hear stuff like this straight from the athletes.[/quote]

Thought Derrick Brooks brought up a good point that Bank CEOs make more money but aren't targeted as much because they aren't in the limelight. Brings up the point: Imagine the outrage and fear if it were three white collar executives getting hit in circumstances similar to Sean Taylor, Darrent Williams and Richard Collier? Think there's always that tacit assumption that these guys had it coming for the lifestyle they lead. But really, think the Sean Taylor murder is a case of someone thinking they were through with their past when their past wasn't through with them. That's the tragedy of it. The sense that you never really get out. It wasn't even a class issue with him. He grew up middle class. Just met the wrong people along the way and even as he left that life, it followed him.

[Swordfish]

[quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1594374' date='Nov 19 2008, 13.32']Yours doesn't matter.[/quote]


Ha......

[quote]Me. Me. Me.[/quote]

Do ray me fa so la tee doh'.

[Swordfish]

[quote name='Jaime L' post='1594408' date='Nov 19 2008, 13.52']In fairness, parody has long existed in the NFL. Consider the Arizona Cardinals franchise, the old Buccaneers uniforms and Alex Karras.



Thought Derrick Brooks brought up a good point that Bank CEOs make more money but aren't targeted as much because they aren't in the limelight. Brings up the point: Imagine the outrage and fear if it were three white collar executives getting hit in circumstances similar to Sean Taylor, Darrent Williams and Richard Collier? T[/quote]

I have nothing to back this up, but I'd be willing to bet that the situation you described (perhaps not with bank ceo's, but i don't think bank ceo's are a good equivalent here unless you are going off of nothing but salary) has happened to white collar executives at least 3 times in the past year, and we heard zilch about it, because as brooks says, these guys aren't in the limelight, so it isn't news.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='Swordfish' post='1594414' date='Nov 19 2008, 15.57']I have nothing to back this up, but I'd be willing to bet that the situation you described (perhaps not with bank ceo's, but i don't think bank ceo's are a good equivalent here unless you are going off of nothing but salary) has happened to white collar executives at least 3 times in the past year, and we heard zilch about it, because as brooks says, these guys aren't in the limelight, so it isn't news.[/quote]

Sure, if you take the pool of, what 1,000,000 white collar execs? Compared to 1,500 NFL players?

Think CEOs is the best possible comparison due to being high profile and limited in number. How many CEOs been murdered or paralyzed in the past year? How many Hollywood actors?

[Rockroi]

[quote]Thought Derrick Brooks brought up a good point that Bank CEOs make more money but aren't targeted as much because they aren't in the limelight. Brings up the point: Imagine the outrage and fear if it were three white collar executives getting hit in circumstances similar to Sean Taylor, Darrent Williams and Richard Collier? Think there's always that tacit assumption that these guys had it coming for the lifestyle they lead. But really, think the Sean Taylor murder is a case of someone thinking they were through with their past when their past wasn't through with them. That's the tragedy of it. The sense that you never really get out. It wasn't even a class issue with him. He grew up middle class. Just met the wrong people along the way and even as he left that life, it followed him.[/quote]

I am not 100% certain that this is what the article was driving at, but its certainly one of the tentacles of thought that the article helped advance.

As far as CEOs being gunned down in a smiliar fassion, while I agree there would be some true concern, I also believe that people would immediately be drawn to "Okay, what did that CEO do that lead to his demise?" Most critical Americans would think that the CEO had been involed with something shaddy to get treatment like that. Which is odd because when Taylor died we thought the exact same thing.

However, I thought that the testimony from Fred Taylor really makes you think about the people that an NFL person can have in their lives: Talylor talks about how after every party he has, he checks his windows to make sure they are still locked, because you never knwo who may unlock one and then try to get in later. Its this type of situation that the NFL player finds himself in- because he can be so accessible to so many people (of varying levels of dangerousness) its easy to see how they get targeted. The CEO does not have the same level of contact.

I am not sure how Sean Taylor's past caught up with him, but I thought that the story was that the men who would eventually kill him were at his home a week prior to his murder, the guests of a party. In other words, probably getting a lay of the land. Maybe unlocking a window.

The story by Dunta Robinson was chilling and you can tell that it deeply troubled him. It would deeply trouble any sane person.

While the Darrent Williams and Richard Collier shootings are equally horrific, there is a certain sense of violation knowing that Taylor was slain in his own home, in the middle of the night, his wife and child just a few feet from him. Its that sense of fear- deep and penetrating -that seems to have taken hold of many of these men. That one day they may be in a situation where they may have to ask somebody's permission to see their family ever again. That's why many seek guns, added security, and bodygaurds- the desperate attempt to be shielded from a world that can know almost everything about you.

I actually think what Portis and Taylor are doing- while defiantely scarry -is rational. They want to live responsibly with their fame and fortune. And if that means having digital security cameras pumped into your home or living in agated community... so. be. it.

[Kalbear]

[quote]Think CEOs is the best possible comparison due to being high profile and limited in number. How many CEOs been murdered or paralyzed in the past year?[/quote]Not enough.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='Rockroi' post='1594423' date='Nov 19 2008, 16.08']Its this type of situation that the NFL player finds himself in- because he can be so accessible to so many people (of varying levels of dangerousness) its easy to see how they get targeted. The CEO does not have the same level of contact.[/quote]

CEOs do have dinners an cocktail parties though. They just don't have to worry about one of their guests coming back and extorting or killing them. Even though they're far richer than the Sean Taylor's of the world. They don't have to check their windows after the party's over. Or be continually aware of where they go and who they go with. They enjoy luxuries NFL guys don't...because they're white?...because they grew up rich?....because they are less visible to the shady elements of society?

I don't really have a point here. Just echoing the article's point that it ain't all strawberries and cream for these guys. And it does suck the kind of fear they have to live in due to pursuing their dream. I mean we're not Argentina, yet, but this article goes to show that we're closer to that than most people think.

[quote]Not enough.[/quote]

:lol:

Touche.

[Swordfish]

[quote name='Jaime L' post='1594422' date='Nov 19 2008, 14.06']Sure, if you take the pool of, what 1,000,000 white collar execs? Compared to 1,500 NFL players?[/quote]


Right. but isn't that the point? that it's the limelight and not the position that makes it news?

[quote]Think CEOs is the best possible comparison due to being high profile and limited in number.[/quote]

CEO's are not high profile though. I doubt the average person could even name one.

[Week]

[quote name='Jaime L' post='1594433' date='Nov 19 2008, 16.17']CEOs do have dinners an cocktail parties though. They just don't have to worry about one of their guests coming back and extorting or killing them. Even though they're far richer than the Sean Taylor's of the world. They don't have to check their windows after the party's over. Or be continually aware of where they go and who they go with. They enjoy luxuries NFL guys don't...because they're white?...because they grew up rich?....because they are less visible to the shady elements of society?[/quote]When CEOs have dinners and cocktail parties...who do they invite? Other CEOs and rich people. Not really a whole lot of incentive for rich people to come back and rob/kill over rich people. I'd also say that white collar festivities are less likely to happen at their homes, more likely to be at charity auctions and the like.

[quote name='Swordfish' post='1594435' date='Nov 19 2008, 16.19']CEO's are not high profile though. I doubt the average person could even name one.[/quote]I could name several, my Dad is a CFO. :P

eta-The CEOs themselves may not be known, but the companies are. So if say, EMC's CEO was the victim of a robbery, people wouldn't necessarily know his name, but it would be reported on because EMC is a well known global company.

[Swordfish]

[quote name='Weekapaug' post='1594615' date='Nov 19 2008, 17.09']When CEOs have dinners and cocktail parties...who do they invite? Other CEOs and rich people. Not really a whole lot of incentive for rich people to come back and rob/kill over rich people. I'd also say that white collar festivities are less likely to happen at their homes, more likely to be at charity auctions and the like.

I could name several, my Dad is a CFO. :P[/quote]


Well, then you aren't average!

:cool:

[quote]eta-The CEOs themselves may not be known, but the companies are. So if say, EMC's CEO was the victim of a robbery, people wouldn't necessarily know his name, but it would be reported on because EMC is a well known global company.[/quote]

Right, I'm sure it would.

But the point, which I apparently am not making very well, is that they aren't comparable to NFL stars because NFL stars are more high profile, thus more likely to be targeted.

i think you'd see coverage of it wither way, although i suspect that NFL players would still be getting much more coverage, because they have many fans who will watch the coverage.

[Week]

[quote name='Swordfish' post='1594645' date='Nov 19 2008, 19.42']Well, then you aren't average![/quote]True in that respect. And down south if you know what I'm talking about! Hiyoo!

[quote name='Swordfish' post='1594645' date='Nov 19 2008, 19.42']But the point, which I apparently am not making very well, is that they aren't comparable to NFL stars because NFL stars are more high profile, thus more likely to be targeted.[/quote]I think you are right here, they certainly are more high profile and I think that is a factor. The other main factor is that NFL players are going to, for the most part, have more ties to unscrupulous folk (to put it nicely) than most CEOs.