The Richard Morgan Thread II

[red snow]

Is there a confirmed number of books for this series? I thought it was 3 but that may have just been the contract. It just sounds as if the series is heating up with book 2 meaning there'll be a lot to cover in book 3. Not that I'm against an actual fantasy trilogy, it just seems unlikely is all.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I mean, did he have to make the knife-throwing Spock character female?

Actually, yes, he did. Archidi’s father and his peers were all blademen. They wielded big swords, like the one that Ringil carries. It makes sense that the knife-throwing character needs to be slighter than a swordman would be. Unless you plan to make midgets, which neither the Kiriath nor the Aldrain are, you either have a child or a woman. And that means she has to be a woman. Q.E.D. ;-}

I like Archidi a lot. She’s by far my favorite of the three lead characters. Ringil is just too damaged.

And polysyllabic names without even the tiniest hint of pronunciation guide in the form of phonetic diacritics? Is it Archeth Indämaninarmal or Archeth Indamáninarmal? Sloppy worldbuilding.

I have no idea what that means. I’ll interpret the acute on the second as a primary stress marker, but I have no idea what in the world that diaeresis in the second can possibly mean!

Personally, I pronounce “kir-Archeth Indamaninarmal” as [ˌkʰiːɾ ˈaɹt͡ʃɨθ ɪnˈdɔːmɨnɚmɫ̩] because I like how it reminds me of “indomitable”, which is [ɪnˈdɔːmɨtəbɫ̩]. But I do recognize that that is rather hard to say, because you have too many unstressed syllables at the end, so it throws you off.

I strongly suspect that the underlying problem here is that we do not have words in English comprising six or more syllables except when there are clear underlying bound morphemes that we know how to assign internal stress to. Even ten-dollar words like palaeobotanically, anthropologically, or extraterritorially break up into smaller pieces that we recognize, so we don’t have to take it all at once.

But Indamaninarmal does not. There are plenty of choices.

• It might work like three words of two syllables each stressed on the penultimate, so alternating up-down repeated three times: IN-da + MA-ni + NAR-mal.
  
• It might work like two words, so IN-da-ma + NI-nar-mal.
  
• It might even have only a single preantepenultimate stress, so in-da-MA-ni-nar-mal, although that does not work very well in English. (The Spanish term for such words is that they are sobresdrújulas, as in dicíendonoslo or chúpamela.)
  
• My own way throws the stress one more further back, so in-DA-ma-ni-nar-mal.
  

Really though you should just say whatever your mouth feels comfortable with. In answer to my question to him about pronunciation,

One question: how do you pronounce Yhelteth? Does it start just like English yes, or does the ‹yh› stand for IPA /ʎ/ (a palatal lateral approximant) or for some other sound?

Richard said:

Uhm, this being fantasy, you can pronounce the names pretty much however you like, really. Personally, I tend to roughen the Y, put an arabic throatiness on it. Imagine the word said by a guy with a thick Russian accent, and you’re pretty much there.

As for it being “sloppy worldbuilding” not to include phonetics, that is just ridiculous. Yes, Tolkien did this, but Martin did not do so for A Song of Ice and Fire, so I cannot see how it can be a problem that Richard did not do so. And even if he had done so, how much would that have helped? Even for something as “simple” as Archeth, there are plenty of possibilities, and the average uneducated English monoglot would have no chance of telling them apart anyway:

• The ‹ar› could be [aɹ], [aɾ], or [aː] (the last if you are a non-rhotic speaker as in RP). (The forum won’t let me enter the correct IPA for the first one, U+252 LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED ALPHA.)
  
• The ‹ch› could be [t͡ʃ], [k], [x], or [χ].
  
• The ‹e› could be [e], [ɛ], [ɨ], or [ə].
  
• The ‹th› could be [θ], [t], or [tʰ] (although we “know” it’s [θ], as it turns out).
  

Do you really think proper phonetic transcriptions would be useful? I’m not convinced they would be. His words aren’t all too super-bizarre.

The easiest solution is simply pronounce Archeth as you would the old -eth inflection of the verb to arch:

• [ˈaɹt͡ʃɨθ] if you’re American
  
• [ˈaːt͡ʃɨθ] if you’re from the Home Counties
  
• [ˈaɾt͡ʃɨθ] if you’re Scottish ;-}
  

If you don’t want to reduce the ‹e› that far the way one does in roses, then just use [ɛ] as in bet.

[pat5150]

I've got a copy of Richard Morgan's The Cold Commands up for grabs here! ;)

Patrick

[Happy Ent]

As for it being “sloppy worldbuilding” not to include phonetics, that is just ridiculous.

Absolutely, my arboreal friend. My post #77 is facetious, and must be understood in the context of the Bakker-bashing and the worldbuilding debates we had on this board around the time. (And the dieresis indeed makes no sense. Before you came, I was the board’s resident dieresis expert.)

But I appreciate your intelligent speculation about pronunciation. We need more of that!

[TheEvilKing]

Wow, missed the news that this is coming out soon. A new book to look forward to. Brilliant. :cheers:

I've completely forgotten most of what happened in the first one and won't have time to re-read it. Oh well.

[Werthead]

Is there a confirmed number of books for this series? I thought it was 3 but that may have just been the contract. It just sounds as if the series is heating up with book 2 meaning there'll be a lot to cover in book 3. Not that I'm against an actual fantasy trilogy, it just seems unlikely is all.

3. Assuming there is no expansion of the series much beyond the new ideas and elements introduced in Book 2, this seems eminently achievable. As I understand, Morgan is already well on his way with Book 3, The Dark Defiles (working title).

[pat5150]

With the novel about to be released, I reckon that quite a few reviews of Morgan's The Cold Commands should soon come out of the woodwork.

Meanwhile, to help whet your appetite, you can read an excerpt here.

Cheers,

Patrick

[Werthead]

Just a reminder that I posted a review of the book some months ago.

It's a considerable improvement over The Steel Remains. I think fans of Morgan's SF work as well as the first book will be very happy with this one.

[Sheep the Evicted]

Can i read it without finishing reading TSR ? I'm usually a massive fan or Morgan but TSR had more problems then i could be bothered to deal with.

[red snow]

Can i read it without finishing reading TSR ? I'm usually a massive fan or Morgan but TSR had more problems then i could be bothered to deal with.

It depends on what your problems were. If it was just with the plot then maybe but I'm guessing if it was the sex and violence then Richard won't have changed. I've yet to read book 2 but I think you'll miss out on an important revelation at the end of book 1 if you don't try to finish it off. Personally, if i couldn't finish book one of anything I'd be pretty reluctant to continue.

[Calibandar]

Kirkus has a pretty good review as well, mild spoilers:

Sequel to Morgan's well-received dark fantasy, or perhaps far-future science fiction, The Steel Remains (2009), following a string of innovative cyberpunk-style sci-fi novels. Morgan's world is a dark, dank, dismal place, haunted by ghosts, gods, evil magic, invading lizards and the specters of vanished super-beings, where life for most tends to be nasty, brutish and short. Ringil Eskiath, war hero, tired, middle-aged and gay in a world where homosexuality is anathema, attempts to rescue an escaping young slave, thereby earning the enmity of the outraged slave-trade magnates, who put a large price on his head. Worse, the Salt Lord, one of the gods--the sort you don't want to mess with--seems to be taking an interest. Ringil returns to the city Yhelteth, where his black-skinned friend Archeth, last of the immortal Kiriath race, advises the sadistic Emperor Jhiral. The rest of Archeth's race, volcano-born and with powerful magic or perhaps unimaginably advanced technology, have all gone--somewhere. Archeth has just dispatched Egar the Dragonbane on a secret mission. Meanwhile, an object falls from orbit, to impact in the desert; it turns out to be an irascible and enigmatic Kiriath Helmsman, Anasharal, a sort of organometallic morphing robot with a knack for spinning very bad news into something that sounds enticing. Violent, intense, atmospheric and highly textured, Morgan's narrative slips rapidly and unnervingly from past to present tense, sometimes in the same sentence, while present action whirls into past recollection with scarcely a drawn breath, and the dialogue crackles with expletives. Add in the subtexts within subtexts, religious, political and philosophical, not to mentions bouts of explicit gay sex, and the whole thing becomes addictive, or repulsive, or both, depending on your viewpoint. A full-immersion experience, uncompromising and bleakly magnificent.

[Jerol]

Kirkus has a pretty good review as well, mild spoilers: Sequel to Morgan's well-received dark fantasy, or perhaps far-future science fiction, The Steel Remains (2009), following a string of innovative cyberpunk-style sci-fi novels. Morgan's world is a dark, dank, dismal place, haunted by ghosts, gods, evil magic, invading lizards and the specters of vanished super-beings, where life for most tends to be nasty, brutish and short. Ringil Eskiath, war hero, tired, middle-aged and gay in a world where homosexuality is anathema, attempts to rescue an escaping young slave, thereby earning the enmity of the outraged slave-trade magnates, who put a large price on his head. Worse, the Salt Lord, one of the gods--the sort you don't want to mess with--seems to be taking an interest. Ringil returns to the city Yhelteth, where his black-skinned friend Archeth, last of the immortal Kiriath race, advises the sadistic Emperor Jhiral. The rest of Archeth's race, volcano-born and with powerful magic or perhaps unimaginably advanced technology, have all gone--somewhere. Archeth has just dispatched Egar the Dragonbane on a secret mission. Meanwhile, an object falls from orbit, to impact in the desert; it turns out to be an irascible and enigmatic Kiriath Helmsman, Anasharal, a sort of organometallic morphing robot with a knack for spinning very bad news into something that sounds enticing. Violent, intense, atmospheric and highly textured, Morgan's narrative slips rapidly and unnervingly from past to present tense, sometimes in the same sentence, while present action whirls into past recollection with scarcely a drawn breath, and the dialogue crackles with expletives. Add in the subtexts within subtexts, religious, political and philosophical, not to mentions bouts of explicit gay sex, and the whole thing becomes addictive, or repulsive, or both, depending on your viewpoint. A full-immersion experience, uncompromising and bleakly magnificent.

OK - I'm sold.

[Lupigis]

I got hold of The Cold Commands a bit before the release date and just finished it. I completely agree that it's better than The Steel Remains (and I liked TSR) and that it's more similar to Morgans SF than TSR was.

The plot is better, there's more action, more suspense and Ringil is really developing into a character that is somewhere in between a hero and a villain. Highly recommended!

Oh, and Werthead, how does it feel to be quoted on the cover? Is it a first for you?

[Werthead]

Oh, and Werthead, how does it feel to be quoted on the cover? Is it a first for you?

I've been quoted before on paperbacks. This is the first for a hardcover. It's also unusual to get a cover quote on the hardcover of the actual book you've reviewed (most hardcovers have cover quotes from the previous book in the series), in this case only possible because I got a very early copy of the manuscript.

Getting the cover quote on one of the publisher's flagship genre releases for the year is, of course, most gratifying :)

Something that surprised me was how much the book compressed down in publishing. The proof was almost 600 pages long, but the ARC is only about 400 pages (not much longer in page count than The Steel Remains, though the book is apparently 50% longer in word-count; I assume clever formatting is afoot). The finished copy may be even shorter.

[Jussi]

The official book trailer from Gollancz:

[Lupigis]

That was the first book trailer I ever watched. Not impressed! :thumbsdown:

Wert, you must have gotten a very early copy. How come?

[The Iceman of the North]

For reviewing?

[Slick Mongoose]

A likely story, for a book reviewer. <_<

[Werthead]

Wert, you must have gotten a very early copy. How come?

I'm not sure. Sometimes I get a book really early as a bound proof and sometimes not. For example, with Mieville I got Kraken as a bound proof, but then I got Embassytown only as a finished hardcover when it came out. Basically it's down to the publisher's discretion.

[King Robert's Warhammer]

Anybody read this?

Thoughts?