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The Richard Morgan Thread II

Werthead

By Werthead,
in Literature

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Happy Ent Council Member

Happy Ent

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Two relevant threads for you:

http://asoiaf.wester...poilers-thread/

and

http://asoiaf.wester...rgan-thread-ii/

RM is a popular author on this forum. (He is, in fact, a board member and has engaged with us here on several occasions.) At the danger of misrepresenting the board consensus (for what it’s worth), we really love his Takeshi Kovacs stuff, but aren’t as taken by his foray into fantasy. But many of the literature forum denizens have certainly read these novels.

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red snow Council Member

red snow

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Market Forces is, in fact, the best of Morgan's novels. It is known.

It is not known by many, perhaps, but such is life.

This book works even better post recession as it seems like it could almost happen. It was definitely ahead of its time but Richard himself has said it's happened before and it will happen again so hardly prophetic. I still think it reads better now than when it was first released though.

I haven't read a bad book by him but the fantasy series has been frustrating. I'm waiting to see how the final volume ends things to judge it overall but the first two books aren't as enjoyable as his sci-fi for me. To his credit they are very different from other fantasies out there at the moment though.

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Richard Hedge Knight

Richard

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Aw, shucks, you guys......

they are very different from other fantasies out there at the moment though.

That's nice to hear. Nice to have it noticed. I've grown a bit weary of the MartinAbercrombieMorganLawrence Grimdark factory concept over the last couple of years. Haven't allowed myself to read any of those guys yet (it's one of the things I'm looking forward to being able to do once Land Fit for Heroes is wrapped), but from flipping through the copies of Joe's stuff that I have on my shelf courtesy of Gollancz, from following in-genre chatter, and from catching the odd episode of HBO's GoT, I'm passably sure that there are big differences between us all in terms of narrative style and substance, thematic concerns, characters, world-building and pretty much every other aspect of the work. Got similarities too, of course (guys with swords, grim social contexts, "magic"), but hey, the same could be said for Chandler, Fleming and vintage Wilbur Smith - they all have dames in danger and tough men with guns, but no-one ever tries to lump them into some arbitrary grouping, SexistHeroRescueThriller fiction, say.........

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Captain Sheepf*cker Squire

Captain Sheepf*cker

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Mr. Morgan, if you don't mind my asking or divulging anything you wish to keep secret, after A Land Fit for Heroes, what's on the horizon? Are you planning to write more fantasy or are you heading back to sci-fi? Gotta say, Black Man (Thirte3n here in the states for those that wanna search it out) is one of my favorite books of all time. If you've answered this a million times, let me apologize, all my info comes from this and a few other forums.

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red snow Council Member

red snow

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Aw, shucks, you guys......

That's nice to hear. Nice to have it noticed. I've grown a bit weary of the MartinAbercrombieMorganLawrence Grimdark factory concept over the last couple of years. Haven't allowed myself to read any of those guys yet (it's one of the things I'm looking forward to being able to do once Land Fit for Heroes is wrapped), but from flipping through the copies of Joe's stuff that I have on my shelf courtesy of Gollancz, from following in-genre chatter, and from catching the odd episode of HBO's GoT, I'm passably sure that there are big differences between us all in terms of narrative style and substance, thematic concerns, characters, world-building and pretty much every other aspect of the work. Got similarities too, of course (guys with swords, grim social contexts, "magic"), but hey, the same could be said for Chandler, Fleming and vintage Wilbur Smith - they all have dames in danger and tough men with guns, but no-one ever tries to lump them into some arbitrary grouping, SexistHeroRescueThriller fiction, say.........

I think it's probably a good idea not to have read those guys while writing your series just to avoid any accidental influences.

I think you're usually spared of the "abercrombie-esque" comparisons that Lawrence and Skull get around here but I know I was guilty of assuming it would fit into that kind of mould which I case in casual labelling terms fits better than say "harry Potter" or "Wheel of time". I think most of us here are pretty guilty of comparing your sci-fi and fantasy work though.

Besides from the fact that your writing style is pretty obvious do you ever wonder if the reception to the fantasy series would have differed if it had been under an alias (for better or worse)? I obviously can't say for sure but I know I can't help but compare the two even if they are very different (although there's still a chance your sci-fi and fantasy are in the same "universe") which is something I wouldn't have done so directly if I thought it was by someone else. Although I guess we'd be accusing it of " a fantasy version of Morgan" then :)

Has anyone here read the fantasy books first and then read the sci-fi books? It would be interesting to see their experiences.

Anyway I'm still looking forward to the final installment and hope it's great. I'm sure you're doing it anyhow but stick to your guns with how you're approaching it.

Are you still dabbling in the games industry or playing around with any other storytelling mediums? It seems you only need an adaptation of one of your books or a screenplay to have the full set.

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polishgenius Council Member

polishgenius

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Got similarities too, of course (guys with swords, grim social contexts, "magic")

I think there are some more specific similarities than that (particularly between you, Abercombie and Lawrence- GRRM is a different beast) but they aren't universal (the things ALFFH shares with First Law is not the same as the things it shares with Broken Kingdoms) and yeah, generally, going "well this is all very depressing so it must be GRIMDARK" is a very unhelpful thing to do. It's just a shift in the whole fantasy genre that things are generally more gritty and bloody and shitty, and trying to compartmentalise that off into a box is rather like labelling Eddings, Brooks, Jordan and Feist as farmhouse fantasy or orphanpunk or something.

Eta:

Are you still dabbling in the games industry or playing around with any other storytelling mediums? It seems you only need an adaptation of one of your books or a screenplay to have the full set.

Quite frankly, what the world needs in my opinion is an HBO/AMC tv show co-written by Messrs Morgan and Warren Ellis.

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Jussi Council Member

Jussi

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I haven't read a bad book by him but the fantasy series has been frustrating. I'm waiting to see how the final volume ends things to judge it overall but the first two books aren't as enjoyable as his sci-fi for me. To his credit they are very different from other fantasies out there at the moment though.

I thought The Cold Commands was a big improvement from The Steel Remains (which I enjoyed, too). In my opinion TCC is on the same level with Morgan's sci-fi novels, TSR somewhat weaker.

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red snow Council Member

red snow

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Quite frankly, what the world needs in my opinion is an HBO/AMC tv show co-written by Messrs Morgan and Warren Ellis.

A TV show about Kovacs could essentially be America's Dr Who. A character where there is a plausible reason for recasting whenever you want with a far more cynical view of sci-fi.

I'd also take a pitch from those two guys seriously.

I think the big difference between Richard and "grimdark/Abercombie" is that his books don't have a sense of humour. I don't mean that as a criticism at all but his worlds are bleak and don't have a tongue-in-cheekness about them. That sense of "fun" is something that Mark Lawrence handles well too. In that sense Richard does have more in common with Abercrombie. When bad things happen in TSR/TCC there is rarely any irony in it. Although I guess the scene where the barbarian gets caught with his pants down was a funny scenario.

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JoannaL Council Member

JoannaL

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I read TSR and cold commads before any SCi-Fi work of Morgan and I liked it very much. So much so, that I checked out his SCi-Fi books which is normaly not my genre. Kovacs is fascinating, but I still think that his fantasy work is great and very rewarding and I am really waiting for The Dark Defiles (is that still the title?). I also do not think it can be compared to Martin or Abercrombie or Lawrence (yes, a lot of violence in all these books which seems to be trendy, but the worldbuildng and characters are not at all similar). The use of the word fuck could be somewhat diminished though.

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Richard Hedge Knight

Richard

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Quick answers to all the queries:

@ Cpt Sheepfucker - there's already an SF novel up on the blocks from back when I planned to alternate between the two sub-genres, so I'll be going back to that, at least for the time being

@ Red Snow - got some game work on the back burner at the moment, plus a potential movie treatment/screenplay collaboration, but they're both taking a solid back seat right now while I wrap up The Dark Defiles.

@ Polishgenius - don't hold your breath, but a TV show has been mooted (though not with either of those outfits, and it's unlikely I'd be doing any of the actual writing)

Right - back to TDD and the final act.......

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  • 1 month later...
Gigei Council Member

Gigei

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Just finished all 3 Kovacs novels and the two fantasy AlFfH books. Loved the Kovacs books a lot! I was looking for more but I guess the end was pretty wrapped up. I enjoyed the first book the most.



Dare I hope there will be any more Kovas stuff? Novellas, short stories, comics, anything at all?



The Steel Remains and The Cold Commands were pretty good, too. I was initially very interested in the idea of a straight gay main character though as it turns out there is more than one gay POV.


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red snow Council Member

red snow

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Quick answers to all the queries:

@ Cpt Sheepfucker - there's already an SF novel up on the blocks from back when I planned to alternate between the two sub-genres, so I'll be going back to that, at least for the time being

@ Red Snow - got some game work on the back burner at the moment, plus a potential movie treatment/screenplay collaboration, but they're both taking a solid back seat right now while I wrap up The Dark Defiles.

@ Polishgenius - don't hold your breath, but a TV show has been mooted (though not with either of those outfits, and it's unlikely I'd be doing any of the actual writing)

Right - back to TDD and the final act.......

Sounds like you have plenty to keep you busy even after you've finished TDD

Just finished all 3 Kovacs novels and the two fantasy AlFfH books. Loved the Kovacs books a lot! I was looking for more but I guess the end was pretty wrapped up. I enjoyed the first book the most.

Dare I hope there will be any more Kovas stuff? Novellas, short stories, comics, anything at all?

The Steel Remains and The Cold Commands were pretty good, too. I was initially very interested in the idea of a straight gay main character though as it turns out there is more than one gay POV.

Richard mentioned at a signing once that a fan had pointed out to him that the military had a martian ship and the rebels had control of the martian satellites (or possibly the other way around - it's a long time since I've read them) and that this could be interesting. It sounded more like a germ of an idea than a promise to write another Kovacs book.

Then there's the theory this series may actually feature Kovacs in the form of Takavatch/Takeshikovacs (I think there's a lot of discussion on that theory earlier in the thread if you are interested)

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Gigei Council Member

Gigei

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I think I would be more interested in Kovacs during the Envoy days. After the end seems a little too political/demagogic for me though, of course, I would still read it. I enjoyed the first book the most so I think a "Kovacs solves a mystery" book would be great.


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