Steven Erikson's Dust of Dreams

[Werthead]

Wait what Stonny had a kid? with whom? What the hell. Has that much time passed? Or is it something to do with a warren?

Marllo's story would be explained if he'd been in a warren or if he'd aged super-fast, but unfortunately neither seems a viable option.

Taking in RotCG and DoD as well, all the younger characters seem to have been aged up. Crokus is only barely recognisable to some people in Darujhistan in TTH; Nil and Nether are now teenagers in RotCG; Sinn and that little boy from the Chain of Dogs are also much more grown up in DoD.

I don't get it at all. There was no need for this sudden 4-5 year gap to suddenly appear from nowhere. The journeys they have been on simply do not require this time to pass. Look how much distance say Napoleon's armies could cover in a few months of campaigning through Europe, or the armies of the American Civil War. They could be on the other side of the continent in just a couple of months. Add in sea travel (aided by magic) as well and these huge lapses in time just become inexplicable.

[The Wolf Maid]

Marllo's story would be explained if he'd been in a warren or if he'd aged super-fast, but unfortunately neither seems a viable option.

There is only one explanation for this.

They have been SORAS'd. :rolleyes:

[delete this account pls]

Try not to think about it too hard, otherwise head explosion will be imminent. My simple, neat, and totally illogical answer for all timeline discrepancies is this;

A wizard did it.

[The Wolf Maid]

Try not to think about it too hard, otherwise head explosion will be imminent. My simple, neat, and totally illogical answer for all timeline discrepancies is this;

A wizard did it.

A war wizard? Wearing a wizard outfit?

But I see logic in this, Brady.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

Marllo's story would be explained if he'd been in a warren or if he'd aged super-fast, but unfortunately neither seems a viable option.

Taking in RotCG and DoD as well, all the younger characters seem to have been aged up. Crokus is only barely recognisable to some people in Darujhistan in TTH; Nil and Nether are now teenagers in RotCG; Sinn and that little boy from the Chain of Dogs are also much more grown up in DoD.

I don't get it at all. There was no need for this sudden 4-5 year gap to suddenly appear from nowhere. The journeys they have been on simply do not require this time to pass. Look how much distance say Napoleon's armies could cover in a few months of campaigning through Europe, or the armies of the American Civil War. They could be on the other side of the continent in just a couple of months. Add in sea travel (aided by magic) as well and these huge lapses in time just become inexplicable.

To be fair, Nil and Nether's age was never particularly clear. Duiker describes them as children and young, but I personally never got the impression that he meant they were children of the 4-5 year old variety; I pictured them as pre-teens, maybe 11 or so. I agree that they were aged pretty fast, but their story pales in comparison to Harllo (the kid, not the dead caravanserai) or Karsa Orlong's daughters.

And I don't know if I can get a good answer about this, since I'm trying to avoid plot-related spoilers for DoD, but how old are Sinn and Grub in DoD? From the last Bonehunters book I recall that Grub was in the neighborhood of perhaps 8-9 or a bit younger (he's always described as a child or a little boy, and his prescience and such shocks everyone because of his age) and that Sinn was a young teenager, although I don't remember her age descriptor's as well as Grub's; basically, I just remember that Sinn was the younger sister of one of the marines, but that she was old enough to enlist... so to me, that meant a young teenager, perhaps 14.

ETA: (realized I didn't answer the other part of your post that I intended to)

I agree overall with you that it's pretty ridiculous. The thing about Karsa's daughters completely jolted me out of the book, since it was years and years off base, even stretching Karsa's timeline as far as possible. And the distances of travel are never well-defined, but we know from GotM and DHG that ships carrying troops from Quon Tali and Seven Cities could arrive predictably and within a relatively short amount of time on Genabackis, a journey of a few months at most. It seems like it takes much longer for everyone else to get anywhere, given that fact.

[Jerol]

Read the spoilers...am far less inclined to pick the series back up now.

Me too. The fucked up timeline, all these unknown characters having ridiculous powers, favorite characters left in the dust, endless navel-gazing (every character has now become The Mhybe) ...this series has spun way out of control. I used to be so psyched for the next Malazan book and now, especially after TtH, I just don't have it in me to care. I'll wait until the last book is in mass market paperback and then buy them used.

[Werthead]

In fairness we do get back to some core favourite characters in this book:

SPOILER: DoD

Stormy, Gesler, Gruntle, Mappo, Icarium (sort of), Quick Ben, Fiddler, Hedge, Keneb, Tavore & Lostara (YMMV on those two), Toc the Younger, Tool (restored to his badass First Sword of the T'lan Imass role), Hetan, etc, plus some of the MT cast for those who liked them: Tehol, Bugg & Brys.

Absolutely no Karsa Orlong I'm sure will also impress some people.

[shortstark]

I think the best way to follow the malazan story is thru spoilers, that way u skip the boring bits and just get the good stuff ;)

[IheartTesla]

I don't get it at all. There was no need for this sudden 4-5 year gap to suddenly appear from nowhere. The journeys they have been on simply do not require this time to pass. Look how much distance say Napoleon's armies could cover in a few months of campaigning through Europe, or the armies of the American Civil War. They could be on the other side of the continent in just a couple of months. Add in sea travel (aided by magic) as well and these huge lapses in time just become inexplicable.

That reminds me of something, cant a few warrens be used to speed up travel? I remember Paran making a grand entry into Laseen's court with the Imperial Warren on his horse. Dont have the books on me now, so I cant check the exact reason he was traveling thus.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

That reminds me of something, cant a few warrens be used to speed up travel? I remember Paran making a grand entry into Laseen's court with the Imperial Warren on his horse. Dont have the books on me now, so I cant check the exact reason he was traveling thus.

That was in GotM, when Paran travels with Topper to join Lorn in Unta; the gate to the Imperial Warren is in Laseen's throne room. This is kind of a GotMism, as actual physical "gates" are not required to exit the Imperial Warren in any other book.

Travel through warrens is supposed to be faster, but the actual process by which this happens is unclear; the Imperial Warren is very clearly used in this way, and the Trygalle use a variety of warrens for this purpose, but on the other hand some warrens seem closely connected to the physical world in ways that would suggest that one couldn't travel faster through them (for example Tattersail's Thyr warren in GotM, which is said to be unable to function over water, suggesting to me that it has ties to the physical world. Also, she doesn't seem to travel any faster through it than she would have by simply walking). Another example is Toc the Younger being thrown through the torn chaos warren and appearing, apparently instantly, in Morn. Maybe it just depends on the warren.

I do think there are a few scattered references to time working differently in some warrens, but there's nothing to suggest that any of the characters so afflicted were involved with these warrens.

Edit: fixed some really strange parentheses mistakes

[saint777]

The Book Depository still haven't released my book yet. Apparently the book's international papers are not in order and having some difficulty leaving the country. I may have to smuggle my book a gun so the UK can deport it.

Addendum: They found my book! They are in the process of shipping it and I should get it in a few days! Now I'm really nervous.

[Vox Aquila]

This perfectly encapsulates the experience of reading Erikson for me.

[Gigei]

In fairness we do get back to some core favourite characters in this book:

SPOILER: DoD

Stormy, Gesler, Gruntle, Mappo, Icarium (sort of), Quick Ben, Fiddler, Hedge, Keneb, Tavore & Lostara (YMMV on those two), Toc the Younger, Tool (restored to his badass First Sword of the T'lan Imass role), Hetan, etc, plus some of the MT cast for those who liked them: Tehol, Bugg & Brys.

Absolutely no Karsa Orlong I'm sure will also impress some people.

I love those people! Aws if Lostara is there it makes me miss Pearl and all their funny banter/love-hate relationship.

Well if the book is about the Imass, it's all good. Everyone loves them.

So do I! I was hoping he'd have a bigger role somehow. He was a lot more interesting (to me) than Whiskeyjack.

:cheers:

[Werthead]

This perfectly encapsulates the experience of reading Erikson for me.

I'd never heard of this guy before four days ago when he was cast as a chat show host in Caprica and suddenly I've been bumping into random links and youtube videos featuring him ever since. Weird.

[polishgenius]

Odd book this. It's slow and quite introspective, but there's a sense of definite purpose that some of the previous books lack. It's a lot better than TtH and TBH, probably above RG as well.

SPOILER: MBF

That's the big WTF thing I mentioned earlier, since the Liosan are a bunch of poser wimps but based on Calm, the Forkrul Assail should be much more badass in battle.

SPOILER: DoD

There's an implication that they work by manipulating names and words, and since thingybob's name doesn't matter compared to his title, knowing it didn't help her. There's hints of that in the modus operandi of the killsquad after the children too.

As for Erikson's attitude to the timeline, he holds his hands up and asks for understanding. Things will broadly make sense, just some of the details are snarled.

On a minor timeline-related note, this book pretty much confirmed that the Barghast

SPOILER: RG and teensy minor one for this

arrived in Lether before they left Genebackis- since the boats were found in RG in the last days of Esgannar's Reign, which is obviously during MT and therefore before the rest of the series, yet no hint is given of any other Barghast on the continent in either book. Presumably a cock-up, since there's no allusions to twisty time. And Hetan's children are also the wrong age- somewhere about 9-11, tallying with Stonny's kid and further bludgeoning that gap between MoI and the current books. Given that Karsa's children are also within the age range that an 8/9-year gap between MoI/HoC and TtH would give, just about (they're pushing it even for that), I suspect it's just something we'll have to accept.

[Relic]

This perfectly encapsulates the experience of reading Erikson for me.

hahaha. that's pretty funny.

[Lord Baelish]

I loved this book. Although the way Wert describes the ending makes it sound a tad mental, it didn't really read that way to me. It had all been foreshadowed, it all made sense (well, mostly). Most of my favourite characters come back, though SE killed off an annoying amount of them and left most of the rest with their fates unknown.

Wert got a few things wrong about this book, though. Spoilers ahoy.

SPOILER: DoD

The Trygalle carriage Gruntle was on was attacked by Gu'Rull, the Shi'gal Assassin and a KCCM, and it wasn't Gruntle that fought him off. It was Amby and Jula Bole, who apparently have some hidden powers like the rest of the Bole Brothers (including Crump, so he probably made it).

I think it was Iccy himself and not just his ghost piloting Kalse Uprooted. He just sees himself as a ghost for most of the book because his mind got all messed up and he saw all those other people that didn't really exist. When "Veed" came along and "killed" the other parts, Icarium became whole again and he could see his body again.

At the moment, pending a more thorough reread, I would rate this book as just behind MT and DG in quality. There are quite a lot of new names and faces to get used to but it was definitely worth it. Some of the revelations blew me away and there definitely is no lack of action. Also, and I know this may just be me, but I think Erikson's definitely improved when it comes to fleshing out characters. Even the K'Chain Che'Malle in this book almost become more human.

Finally,

SPOILER: DoD

The Errant gets his comeuppance at long, long last! And even if it did involve the return of Feather Witch, I am delighted.

[Xanrn]

Yeah everyone should know by now Erikson is the worst writer in the history of anything when it comes Timelines.

Also Wert wtf do you mean Whiskeyjack died from his own stupidity? He didn't get his leg healed because Hood was manipulating him so he would die and fall into Hoods grasp, this is explained in TTH.

Is it explained why

SPOILER:

the White Face Barghast suddenly went Psycho and attacked Hetan and Tool?

Oh yes what are Onrack and Tool's Sister doing now?

That ending sounds ridiculus, seriously.

What comes after UBER BIG BAD BATTLE OF UBER DEATH AND UBER DESTRUCTION AS SCRIPTED BY MICHEAL BAY!!!

I figure we will find out next book.

[Werthead]

Also Wert wtf do you mean Whiskeyjack died from his own stupidity? He didn't get his leg healed because Hood was manipulating him so he would die and fall into Hoods grasp, this is explained in TTH.

Yes, and I'm absolutely certain that Erikson had that planned in MoI :lol:

Erikson reads the message boards and has done since day one, and often puts things in the books to address things that have come up on the MBs. He was adamant that there were no Hounds of Light, but it was argued on the MB that there should be since there are Hounds of Shadow and Darkness as well, he agreed, and then put the Hounds of Light in TTH. Similarly, he earlier didn't seem to think much of the Whiskeyjack situation but people kept going on about how retarded it was, so mysteriously this 'explanation' for it turned up.

Is it explained why

SPOILER:

the White Face Barghast suddenly went Psycho and attacked Hetan and Tool?

SPOILER: DoD

Tool wasn't badass enough for the Barghast and kept trying to restrain them from attacking the neighbouring tribes and so on, so they finally had enough of his non-Barghastness and killed him (which didn't work, as that just reverted him to his T'lan state, with Toc's help) and Hetan.

[polishgenius]

SPOILER: DoD

Tool wasn't badass enough for the Barghast and kept trying to restrain them from attacking the neighbouring tribes and so on, so they finally had enough of his non-Barghastness and killed him (which didn't work, as that just reverted him to his T'lan state, with Toc's help) and Hetan.

This, but

SPOILER: DoD

I'm fairly sure it's said somewhere that Olar Ethil was manipulating them from afar into doing so, which would explain why a warlike and fractious but generally honourable group of people became a bunch of staggeringly malicious cockends, although not why the previously unmentioned and uncharacteristic practice of hobbling appears to be an established part of their culture.