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[Werthead]

Saw it today.

It was okay. Some good/spectacular moments, the battle sequence was easy to follow (my #1 worry was that the battles were going to be random CGI shit blowing up with no rhyme or reason, as with Transformers and the Matrix and Star Wars sequels), and Michelle Rodriguez was pretty cool as Vasquez Mk. II. Zoe Saldana's performance came through superbly through the CGI. The main bad guy was hilariously, brilliantly awesome, and should be hired instantly by HBO to play Randyll Tarly:

Not only does he run outside without a breathing mask and fire madly at the escaping dropship, and then stand there fuming for ages (so badass he doesn't need oxygen!), he later runs through an exploding warship, strap himself into a battlemech whilst on fire, jump out of the still-exploding warship, assume a badass pose in front of the exploding warship whilst it explodes for the final time, but then he pulls out a giant battlemech-scaled knife, spends ages without the need for oxygen again, and finally dies only when he gets perforated with multiple arrows.

The film's real triumph, though, is exposing how bad DiCaprio was in Titanic as a romantic lead. Seriously, as corny as the alien romance thing was, it was far more believable than the romance in Titanic.

[Jon AS]

I saw it yesterday and I have to say it was visually much more impressive than I would have thought possible. It is an absolutely beautiful movie, and Pandora is a fascinating world, even if flying mountains (with waterfalls!) don't make a lick of sense.

The story is of course nothing new. There is no intricate plot that is hard to follow and there are a fair number of cringe-worthy moments that make you think that they could have been improved significantly. But I have to agree with those saying that this simplistic storyline means that the audience is not distracted from the visual spectacle. It is also not completely riddled with plotholes, which is a nice plus in any big budget movie. It certainly blows the Star Wars prequels out of the water in pretty much every respect (except for the lack of lightsabres, obviously).

It is not a quotable movie, and it probably won't be watched and rewatched for decades to come, but it is a unique and memorable journey through a strange world.

Sidenote: A friend and I were amused by Sigourney Weaver's character being impressed by the Pandoran internet (they can download data from all over the world!), and now that I think about it the fact that the final battle involved the natives defending their central filesharing server gives the story an interesting spin.;)

[Ran]

Wert,

The film's real triumph, though, is exposing how bad DiCaprio was in Titanic as a romantic lead. Seriously, as corny as the alien romance thing was, it was far more believable than the romance in Titanic.

Nothing to do with DiCaprio. It's because Jack Dawson is an idealized young James Cameron (always struck me a bit odd that Cameron did all the drawings -- he's an amateur draftsman as far as his sketches go, but in the film they're judged to have great artistic merit -- and any shots of Dawson drawing up close were Cameron's hands standing in for DiCaprio's), and that made the role so weighted down with Cameron's sentimentality that there was really not much the actor could do to push past it. That said, DiCaprio did a fairly good job with the charm, but anything remotely adult in the role was ... pretty stunted, lacking in introspection.

Kate Winslet came off much better, presumably because she's not a James Cameron avatar (hah).

[polishgenius]

Got to agree with Wert on the bad guy. I don't even remember his name, he stayed in my head as 'Colonel Badass'.

[Jon AS]

Oh yeah, the bad guy had the entire theatre burst out laughing several times throughout the movie. My favourite moments were his escape from the crashing command airship while ON FIRE and when his 'mech was disarmed and he whipped out a huge knife. An absolutely priceless character.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

Wait, Duke Nukem was on fire when he escaped from the ship? Or do you just mean the ship was on fire?

[Jon AS]

Wait, Duke Nukem was on fire when he escaped from the ship? Or do you just mean the ship was on fire?

He catches fire in one of the explosions, calmly climbs into his 'mech and prepares to get out and then extinguishes the flames almost as an afterthought. Pure badassness.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

Damn. I think I missed that. Ah well.

[Angeleyes]

Got to agree with Wert on the bad guy. I don't even remember his name, he stayed in my head as 'Colonel Badass'.

Clearly he was 'Major Chip Hazard'

Along with 'Kokoam' the Na'Vi King to Be.

Didn't anyone ever watch Small Soldiers or Pocahontas? Anyone?

[lessthanluke]

Clearly he was 'Major Chip Hazard'

Along with 'Kokoam' the Na'Vi King to Be.

Didn't anyone ever watch Small Soldiers or Pocahontas? Anyone?

Ha he was so Chip Hazard

[Werthead]

I've seen a few people and reviews theorise that Avatar takes place in the Aliens universe. It's an entertaining if somewhat unlikely idea.

Ideas For

Avatar takes place in 2154, rather neatly slotting it in between Alien (which takes place in 2122) and Aliens (2179).

'The Company' in Avatar is never named, but it is a huge multi-disciplined mega-corporation with substantial ties to the military. Their attitude is very similar to Weyland-Yutani in Alien, Aliens and Alien 3, who are also popularly called 'The Company'.

The big hover-warship and smaller hover-choppers seem to be of the same design philosophy as the dropship in Aliens.

Cryo-suspension is again used to 'freeze' people for long interstellar voyages.

The lack of concern over the Na'vi and their fate seems to suggest that the existence of other extraterrastial races is known, and the Na'vi are nothing particularly special.

Both franchises are owned or distributed by 20th Century Fox, which simplifies copyright issues.

Ideas Against

I don't believe it's mentioned in the movie, but the supporting literature indicates that Pandora is located orbiting a gas giant in the Alpha Centauri star system. If it takes six years to travel the 4.5 light-years from Earth to Alpha Centauri, then the superluminal drive has not been invented, whilst it had in Alien (which was necessary since the LV-426 system is about 50 light-years from Earth).

Pandora's supply of 'unobtanium' seems vitally important to humanity on Earth, suggesting that humanity has not yet begun mass-colonisation of other star systems with other resources.

The spacecraft that ferries Sully to Pandora appears to be radically less advanced than the Nostromo in Alien (let alone the Sulaco of Aliens), with solar panels and a rotating section for gravity, whilst the Nostromo didn't need the former and had artificial gravity without the need for a rotating section.

Whilst the Aliens franchise spin-offs suggest that the existence of other alien races is known (and the AvP films' events indicate that the Company is at least aware of the existence of the Predators as well), the actual films themselves seem to suggest that the existence of animal-like creatures like the Xenomorph is rare enough to be treated with scepticism, suggesting the existence of a sentient race of near-humanoids is unlikely and would have been mentioned.

Fun as it would be to see the Na'vi fending off facehuggers and aliens in the inevitable sequel, there doesn't really seem to be any logical reason whatsoever to tie the two franchises together. The few things that hint at a connection can be dismissed as, at best, shout-outs from Cameron to his other work (much as Hyperdyne Industries in Aliens was a shout-out to Cyberdyne from The Terminator).

Conclusion

They aren't linked at all, but it was briefly fun to theorise about it.

[Spring Bass]

I saw it about an hour ago. Goddamn, that was awesome - definitely one of the most detailed and intricate uses of CGI that I've seen since the "Final Fantasy" movie back in 2001. The simple plot actually helped keep focus on that, although if they do sequels it probably won't stay that way; I almost wonder if Cameron is going to aim for the same type of thing as what happened with the native Americans, where they could win some major battles but still lose the war.

I loved the characterization in it. Worthington did a good job portraying Sully, particularly in Avatar form. In particular, I liked

how he showed Sully going from a human using the body for business and pleasure, to getting confused over which was real and which wasn't, until finally at the end, when Colonel Badass asks him how it feels to be a traitor to his own race, he hisses in response. Not to mention his comment about how the "aliens were sent back to their dying world".

Zoe Saldana was freaking hot in blue-cat-alien form as Neytiri. She may be the face that launched a thousand furries (well, except that the Na'vi don't have fur).

Colonel Badass was, well, badass. Seriously, that guy was so over-the-top, Obviously Evil, and chewing up the scenery like crazy that I was grinning whenever he opened his mouth for the most part. Sigourney Weaver did a pretty excellent job as well.

They aren't linked at all, but it was briefly fun to theorise about it.

Yeah, the connection seems pretty tenuous and likely non-existent.

That said, I wish they hadn't linked the "Predator" universe with the "Alien" universe. A crossover between the Predator and the Na'vi on Pandora sounds like it would be pretty hilarious and wild. :devil:

[IheartTesla]

I just got back from watching it. I'll agree with everyone that it was visually very stunning. However, the plot was very predicatable. Thematically its very similar to Dances With Wolves. Hero sent to observe natives, lives with them and learns more about them and how they commune with nature, falls in love with woman from tribe and becomes one of them - taking up arms against home team at some point as well.

I have to say Cameron employed every possible trope you can about indigenous folk that you can. Its probably too much to ask for a nuanced take about the battle between technology and nature in such a movie though.

[Ser Warpechowski]

We finally got two good negative reviews. Walter Chaw and Nick Schager both gave it two stars and focus on the cliches, bad dialogue and refried storytelling. Both commend the visuals.

I havent readed their reviews, but I agree with them. I also add that the sound and music sucked bad.

Nonetheless the overall quality and the awesome visuals make me give it 4 stars out of 5 (8/10).

[Ser Warpechowski]

Well, it was my first 3D film, so I don't really know how they've used it until then. The thing is, just before the film started we had a 3D commercial were things appeared to fly to our faces, which was really impressive, so I kind of expected to see at least a few use of this in the movie.

That said, thinking about it now I kind of see your point. It would have felt cheap if they had done it a couple of time during the film, and it would have broken its visual consistency.

They did that with the golf ball, right in the start when that boss is playing.

And I agree with the other guy, they used the 3d in a much more subtle way and that really made the diference.

[Ser Warpechowski]

Scott:

It's not unbelievable, it's just a Deus ex Machina plot device. When Sully prays to the god, the Na'Vi even say that it doesn't take sides. Eventually it does, proving Sully new their God better than the Na'Vi themselves... I found it to be poor story telling. The humans only wanted to mine some ore anyway, so they probably wouldn't have wantonly attacked the rhino-like creatures or devastated the whole planet. Their conflict was with a very specific tribe of Na'Vi.

The human operation doesnt look very big. Looks like every troop and every machine they had on the planet was used on the final operation. So much that they didnt even had bombers, they only had the shutle and those small helicopter aircraft.

[Ser Warpechowski]

And theres another rumor that he wants to shoot a live-action version of Battle Angel Alita heavily using the (his) new digital 3D technology. Meaning Avatar was just the test bed of what is now doable in movies.

For the most part I hate anime/manga.

But to a live-action, heavy CGI, Battle Angel Alita, directed by Cameron. I say "fuck-yeah"!

Shit, I´ve just jizzed in my pants.

Battle Angel Alita was my first manga and it is very good. Solid reading material, its worth it.

[Lupigis]

Saw it. Enjoyed it but I agree with what has been said upthread - it's a movie you see for the visuals, not for the plot or the acting. I read a review that said that Avatar delivers sense of wonder and that's certainly true.

Regrding the plot, people mention about Dances with Wolves and The Last Samurai, but lot of the themes in the plot have also course been used by SF writers. LeGuins The Word for World is Forest is an obvious one, but I kept thinking about the early short stories of GRRM too.

And Seven Times Never Kill Man has the humans against the natives, With Morning Comes Mistfall has the ailien planet which may contain any amount of mystery (or none at all, as the case may be) The Hero has the veteran solider in conflict with his superior and A Song for Lya has the alien group mind that a human can join.

It's not like the similarities are overwhelming but it goes to show to what an extent the themes in Avatar are present in SF from the 60ies and 70ies.

[Kymeera]

I just got back from seeing this. I didn't have high expectations going in, but overall I enjoyed it. In a way it reminded me of The Dark Crystal. The story was fairly standard with no major surprises, but what makes it memorable is that very creative people were given free reign (and lots of money) to work their magic. It felt like there were lots of artistic touches that went above and beyond what it would take to make a visually interesting movie. Usually I find CGI to be excessive and overused, but in this case it was wonderfully executed.

I was also surprised that even though the theater was packed, and there were many children present, everybody sat through the movie and enjoyed it without the jackassery I'm used to. There was even a good amount of applause at the end. There seemed to be plenty of positive comments from the people around me.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

I was also surprised that even though the theater was packed, and there were many children present, everybody sat through the movie and enjoyed it without the jackassery I'm used to.

This was my experience as well. Full theater, no misbehavior, applause at the end.