Infidelity - when, if ever is it acceptable.

[Lyanna Stark]

I don't think there's been too many "men being stereotypically male" in here.

And I personally think there's a distinct lack of empathy for the guy's situation in this matter (although the manner in which it's being described certainly isn't helping that). There's alot of posts explaining how the women may feel in this situation which also heavily imply (or outright say) that the man should suck it up and deal and "she just squirted 8 pounds of baby out her vagina so you aren't allowed to complain about feeling unloved!".

Yeah, she just did. And that completely changes your body, your life and everything. Takes some getting used to. ?Maybe the guy should have thought of that before thinking a baby was a good idea. The thing is, a lot of men lose their sex drive as well when they become fathers, cos their life change drastically as well. Problems vary. However, saying stuff like "oh she should be able to put out, what with being physically able" is just horrible.

I don't think men are being stereotypically male in here, I think a lot of guys have no experience of being a parent, and will one day become rather shocked when it hits them full on in the face. And then they'll deal with it, grow a thicker skin and higher tolerance to sleep deprivation and become happy parents to beautiful kids (and hopefully also with a stronger bond to their partners, since if you manage to overcome the initial awkwardness of the first year or so, you can actually become even closer. )

[Kalbear]

If the OP's friend thought it was ok to cheat, he wouldn't be asking the OP to validate his desire to cheat. He's have just done it.

I think he probably has, and his friend is trying to reconcile that with doing something reasonable or making it justified.

[Lyanna Stark]

I think he probably has, and his friend is trying to reconcile that with doing something reasonable or making it justified.

Ah Kalbear, you are like a school teacher standing there peering through your glasses roaring "I SAW YOU BEING NAUGHTY!" :lol:

Ten points from Gryffindor.

[tenalpia]

...saying "I'm too tired" when one really means something else is not nice...

People use a short phrase to cover convoluted turmoil all the time. It's not a matter of not being nice it's a matter of not being able to or not wanting to explain the full picture.

How often does someone ask how you are and you answer with 'Fine' or 'Good' when you actually feel like crap because of a million different things that you've got going on? Sometimes it's just easier to use a short answer because the long answer is too complicated / too personal / too confusing.

I'm not saying that only one person here is suffering. I am saying that infidelity will not solve the problem, proper communication has a far better shot of achieving a positive outcome.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

saying "I'm too tired" when one really means something else is not nice,

But how else would you describe PPD, when you don't even know that what you do have is PPD? When there are a ton of feeling that you just don't understand, but the one thing you do understand is you are tired?

It's not lying, it is reducing a jumble of things to the most understandable one.

eta: what Ten said :)

[Shryke]

Yeah, she just did. And that completely changes your body, your life and everything. Takes some getting used to. ?Maybe the guy should have thought of that before thinking a baby was a good idea. The thing is, a lot of men lose their sex drive as well when they become fathers, cos their life change drastically as well. Problems vary. However, saying stuff like "oh she should be able to put out, what with being physically able" is just horrible.

I don't think men are being stereotypically male in here, I think a lot of guys have no experience of being a parent, and will one day become rather shocked when it hits them full on in the face. And then they'll deal with it, grow a thicker skin and higher tolerance to sleep deprivation and become happy parents to beautiful kids (and hopefully also with a stronger bond to their partners, since if you manage to overcome the initial awkwardness of the first year or so, you can actually become even closer. )

Agreed.

But it's still a big problem in (most) relationships.

I think the whole "It's understandable but not OK" thing flies both ways in this situation. It may be understandable that the women doesn't feel like sex for the 13 months or whatever after she just gave birth, but that doesn't mean a year's worth of lack of intimacy is good for the relationship.

I mean, in any situation really, if one partner decides they just aren't interested in sex any more for whatever reason, that's a personal decision that may be understandable, but it's ok if the other partner DOES still want sex. That's a serious breakdown right there.

But, again, communication is what's needed here. Though I think that's obvious to everyone in this thread.

[Guest Raidne]

I don't think men are being stereotypically male in here, I think a lot of guys have no experience of being a parent, and will one day become rather shocked when it hits them full on in the face.

Yep. And to be clear, I said some guys in this thread were being jerky in a stereotypically male fashion. Focus on the jerk part. Not that all stereotypically male things are jerky, or any other interterpretation.

And then they'll deal with it, grow a thicker skin and higher tolerance to sleep deprivation and become happy parents to beautiful kids (and hopefully also with a stronger bond to their partners, since if you manage to overcome the initial awkwardness of the first year or so, you can actually become even closer. )

Well, one would hope, but clearly this hasn't happened for the OP.

[Altherion]

People use a short phrase to cover convoluted turmoil all the time. It's not a matter of not being nice it's a matter of not being able to or not wanting to explain the full picture.

How often does someone ask how you are and you answer with 'Fine' or 'Good' when you actually feel like crap because of a million different things that you've got going on? Sometimes it's just easier to use a short answer because the long answer is too complicated / too personal / too confusing.

To an extent, you are correct -- it's fairly common to gloss over problems like that... but it is not something done repeatedly per issue. That is, if a question is asked multiple times and the short answer is given every time to the point where it becomes obvious that the questioner is at best not being told the whole story and, more likely, simply being lied to. Of course, in that case the questioner is also partly at fault for not pressing the issue in a diplomatic way, but the lion's share of the blame for the lack of communication is definitely on the answerer.

[Blaine]

Well, one would hope, but clearly this hasn't happened for the OP.

He's barely made it a year. It definitely takes some time to adjust to the situation. Not saying he's right in feeling like he should cheat - but like some other guys have said, I understand where it's coming from.

The whole first year is basically a mess for most couples. Each year after that gets easier to manage a sex life along with all the new responsibilities/changes/etc, at least it has so far in my experience.

[Guest Raidne]

I can see where he's coming from also, to a degree. From what's been said, it seems like Doctors are partially to blame here and should be providing more realistic expectations.

[Stego]

Ah Kalbear, you are like a school teacher standing there peering through your glasses roaring "I SAW YOU BEING NAUGHTY!" :lol:

Ten points from Gryffindor.

Anna, just pointing out that he's Hufflepuff.

[brook]

Having said that, the lack of postpartum sex was a huge driving force in my divorce. I had my daughter and I was told I'd be good to go for sex after 6 weeks. My exhub was patient and everything for a while - but it HURT! I couldn't do it. Six months went by and it still was so painful I couldn't have sex. I would try but the prospect of the pain was just too much of a turn off - not to mention all of the hormonal issues, I was breastfeeding til she was 10 months old, etc. I didn't feel unattractive, I just didn't want sex, period. This was also rooted in two other things - my fear of getting pregnant again (I was only 17 when I got knocked up due to a broken condom) and very likely the birth control shot I was on to avoid said accidents, DepoProvera, which is a horrible, awful drug and was very likely one of the culprits in the pain and lack of drive.

It may have been the breastfeeding itself. I find sex very painful when I'm breastfeeding, it starts to ease off after the 6 month mark but it doesn't get to the point where its actually 100% comfortable until after I wean.

That did cause a few problems after we had our first, I was avoiding any situation which might turn into sex because I didn't want the pressure which lead to him feeling unloved and unwanted and me feeling resentful that he would even want to do something that had made me cry every time we attempted it.

I'm rather relieved that we were able to solve the problem by talking to each other honestly (and at a time when sex was not an option so I wasn't feeling defensive from the start) rather than someone deciding infidelity was a better solution. I had the same pain problems after both the two younger boys but it didn't cause the same issues between us because we were able to communicate instead of just sitting around resenting each other.

[Relic]

That did cause a few problems after we had our first, I was avoiding any situation which might turn into sex because I didn't want the pressure which lead to him feeling unloved and unwanted and me feeling resentful that he would even want to do something that had made me cry every time we attempted it.

Oral?

[brook]

Oral?

Happened a few times and generally lead to bigger arguments because, in our relationship, thats usually foreplay not the main event. So it was one of those situations that generally leads to sex that I was trying my hardest to avoid.

Plus when you're already resenting someone its not exactly number 1 on the list of things you want to do...

Like I said, communication helps, but it really does need to come at a time when sex is not an option anyway or else it just feels like more pressure.

We had a much better sex life after the two younger boys than after our first even though I actually found it hurt more and for longer with each of them. Once we felt like we could talk to each other without it just ending up horribly we were a lot more likely to come up with creative solutions

[Lord Mord]

EDIT: Lost the focus I wanted to bring to the thread. Please disregard.

[turinturambar]

Happened a few times and generally lead to bigger arguments because, in our relationship, thats usually foreplay not the main event. So it was one of those situations that generally leads to sex that I was trying my hardest to avoid.

Plus when you're already resenting someone its not exactly number 1 on the list of things you want to do...

Like I said, communication helps, but it really does need to come at a time when sex is not an option anyway or else it just feels like more pressure.

We had a much better sex life after the two younger boys than after our first even though I actually found it hurt more and for longer with each of them. Once we felt like we could talk to each other without it just ending up horribly we were a lot more likely to come up with creative solutions

I'm really happy for you that you two worked it out. Kudos! The OP and his wife need to communicate like you two.

[Stego]

Talked to my wife about this. It was very amusing. She said "14 Months!?!? Cheat away!"

She made a good point about how absurd it is that the man is supposed to deal with the changes in feelings in the woman, but the woman isn't required to consider that the man has not changed.

Basically, I can't help but agree with her wisdom. A solid relationship is about trust, communication, and compromise. If you lack any of those, your relationship is just a waste of your life. The key word in this case being compromise.

[jurble]

This is why we need legal polygamy.

[lokisnow]

Talked to my wife about this. It was very amusing. She said "14 Months!?!? Cheat away!"

She made a good point about how absurd it is that the man is supposed to deal with the changes in feelings in the woman, but the woman isn't required to consider that the man has not changed.

Basically, I can't help but agree with her wisdom. A solid relationship is about trust, communication, and compromise. If you lack any of those, your relationship is just a waste of your life. The key word in this case being compromise.

Right, defer to the woman's biological imperatives, but man must overcome and set aside his. ;)

kidding aside, there was an interesting article on CNN today about male neuroscience that relates to sex and childrearing

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/23/brizendine.male.brain/index.html

[Stego]

Right, defer to the woman's biological imperatives, but man must overcome and set aside his. ;)

I'm not saying ignore a woman's biological imperatives, man. Really. I'm just sick of the moronic mindset that the acknowledgment that men might actually have imperatives as well is some sort of misogynistic over-testosteroned plot from the He-Man Woman Haters Club.