Lost season 6

[G'Kar]

I agree with that. There conversations about the nature of time travel and Star Wars in season 5 were fantastic. By far my favorite scene with them was when Mile's dad confronts them as they are leaving the Dharmaville.

Chang: What year were you born?

Hurley: Uh, 1931.

Chang: You're 46

Hurley: Yes.

Chang: So you fought in the Korean War.

Hurley: There's no such thing.

Chang: Whose the President of the United States?

Hurley: ...alright dude, we're from the future.

Edit: As for great female characters, have we all already forgotten Charlotte Staples Lewis?

[Kalbear]

Edit: As for great female characters, have we all already forgotten Charlotte Staples Lewis?

Yes, because she was utter shit.

[ztemhead]

I'm wondering who gets the blame for lack of likeable female characters on the show. Writers? Producers? Actors?

[Kalbear]

It's a spec fic show. So women are already not part of the demo, and already get hosed.

JJ Abrams along with the others are pretty traditional writers. Even in their pieces that have a leading female, they tended to favor more men. Felicity, Alias, Star Trek, MI3 - all did not have particularly well-balanced gender roles, and the more interesting characters tended to often be men.

They've had some misses on casting too. Ana-Lucia had the potential to be fairly interesting until they had to write her off. Naomi as well. But the original archetypes? Kinda sucked. We have Kate, the pregnant woman, the kept wife (who doesn't speak English, yay), the spoiled rich girl...how do you compete with Iraqi torturers, con men and crazy guys who win the lottery?

Just poor choices for women in general.

[ztemhead]

I was thinking that sounds like a pretty sexist thing to say, "I hate most of the women on the show," but then I remembered that old saw that rears it's ugly head now and again:

"It's not because you're a woman. It's because you suck."

but to what you're saying, who'd have thought the kept wife would become the most dynamic one on the show? she's like the anti-Kate.

[Kalbear]

Heh. I actually hate a few of the men more, but as a group it annoys that the women are so incredibly impotent on the show and have done so little that is remotely compelling. It's also pretty weak that women are invariably the targets for poignant deaths; women as victims has gotten a bit old.

What's really funny is how many women die if they have sex out of marriage. Shannon - DIE. Ana-Lucia dies almost immediately after having sex with Sawyer. Juliet dies mere days before Sawyer can propose. Libby? Oh noes, you like Hurley and must die! Nikki? Oh yeah.

I'm surprised they haven't offed Kate yet.

[ztemhead]

maybe they all conceived and got pregnant, thus keeping with the totally important but completely forgotton about plotline of women who get pregnant on the island all DIE!!

[Quijote Light]

The worst thing about the lack of strong, interesting female characters on the show is that we'll never know what could have been. I often wonder what Kate would have been like if they had not decided to keep Jack and pretty much transferred much of her story to him. Sad.

[marwyn]

Heh. I actually hate a few of the men more, but as a group it annoys that the women are so incredibly impotent on the show and have done so little that is remotely compelling. It's also pretty weak that women are invariably the targets for poignant deaths; women as victims has gotten a bit old.

What's really funny is how many women die if they have sex out of marriage. Shannon - DIE. Ana-Lucia dies almost immediately after having sex with Sawyer. Juliet dies mere days before Sawyer can propose. Libby? Oh noes, you like Hurley and must die! Nikki? Oh yeah.

I'm surprised they haven't offed Kate yet.

Well I think the best way of replying to that would be this.

I really don't get what gets you guys so fussed about there not being enough females. Why do you guys care so much if there are not exactly as many females as males? There's dozens of shows where it's the other way round.. why should it have to be balanced.

I might as well complain for there not being enough gay characters. Cause statistically speaking, there should be at least one gay main character.

Lost (just like any other fictional tv-show) still exists in it's own universe. It doesnt have to depict everything realistically. It's not like the show has been discriminatory towards women, because some of the females have had kickass moments throughout the series.

Also, some of the posts here were a bit exaggerated, IMO. Charlotte had a pretty big role (I suspect she would have had a centric in season 4 if not for the Writer's strike). Claire had a pretty big role in the first 3 seasons. Juliet has been great from start to finish. Kate is maybe not the most well-written character on the show but she's not bad either. We had Ana Lucia with two centrics in a season. Sun has undergone a lot of character development since we first saw her. We have Rose, who is maybe not a big character but still a fan favourite. Rousseau was never a main character but ended up getting quite a lot of screentime as well (AND she was, at least in my eyes, a very intriguing character). Shannon's had one-and-a-half centric. Ilana's a pretty intriguing new female role. We now have our very own female scientist as well (Zoe).

So yeah. Maybe not a 1:1 ratio if you compare it with the males. But still.

As to the reason why there are less well-written female roles on the show, I personally have no idea. But the point is that that doesn't matter.

If it bothers you so much then I suppose you shouldn't watch it, and the show's creators might notice that, when they create more female roles, they'll reach a wider audience. That's how tv works after all.

[Kalbear]

As to the reason why there are less well-written female roles on the show, I personally have no idea. But the point is that that doesn't matter.

If it bothers you so much then I suppose you shouldn't watch it, and the show's creators might notice that, when they create more female roles, they'll reach a wider audience. That's how tv works after all.

Right, because no one could possibly ever have a problem with a show or other work they like without watching it. That's great.

I guess I personally like seeing characters that are strong regardless of their sex. It's not so much that I want strong female characters; I want strong characters, and as it turns out most of the women who have been on the show have also been the least interesting characters with the worst plots. There doesn't have to be a balance or ratio of men and women that's precisely the same. However, it would be nice if they are going to tokenize the women, at least make them compelling.

Anyway, the point isn't that there aren't as many women as men. I don't think anyone's said that. It's that the actually good characters are all men, by a large, large margin. And when they do have anything resembling a good female character they invariably die.

[Guest Raidne]

Mar, at least for me, I'm not asking if Lost is sexist. I mean, whatever. I just think the show could have been even better if half the characters weren't wastes of space on a show that devotes fully half of every episode to someone's personal growth as a character.

So I'm saying, hmmm...only about half the characters on Lost are interesting. I wonder why that's so? Well, it's interesting that most of the female characters are bor-ing, and, except for Jack, all the male characters are alright. Wow, especially the nerdy male ones - they're really good. Hmmm....I wonder if the people writing the show are nerdy men?

This is why I give Josh Holloway credit. And because in the Season 1 DVD extras they let us know that they rewrote the character for him. He's done a lot to create the character of Sawyer himself, as an actor. And, to be fair, every actress on the show has also had that chance. Especially, especially Kate. Evangeline Lilly is just...not a good actress with *zero* charisma.

ETA: Imagine if Elizabeth Mitchell had been Kate? So much better.

[ztemhead]

if it's sexism you're after, the Breaking Bad thread is blossoming nicely. In that one, it really is because she's a woman.

[Kalbear]

I'm not entirely sure that anyone could have saved Kate. Not that EL is doing her any favors, but...a toy plane? No one is going to make that shit shine.

[Shryke]

It's funny Kalbear, cause looking at your list, it looks like the issue is when they chose to kill characters, it always ends up being women.

[Slurktan]

So I'm saying, hmmm...only about half the characters on Lost are interesting. I wonder why that's so? Well, it's interesting that most of the female characters are bor-ing, and, except for Jack, all the male characters are alright. Wow, especially the nerdy male ones - they're really good. Hmmm....I wonder if the people writing the show are nerdy men?

The problem I have with this argument is that it's selective. You think all the male characters are alright. I certainly don't, I mean you have the bad boy with the heart of gold which is just ever so interesting and isn't at all there because he occasionally takes off his shirt for female viewers, you have the nerdy male sidekicks who don't evolve as characters and are simply punchlines/deus ex machina waiting to happen, you have a walking stereotype in Sayid (and certainly Jin in season 1 at least), druggie rock star (yet another original), model boy who is there to be pretty until dying, etc etc.

Are there more good male roles on the show? Yes but not that many more.

[ztemhead]

The problem I have with this argument is that it's selective. You think all the male characters are alright. I certainly don't, I mean you have the bad boy with the heart of gold which is just ever so interesting and isn't at all there because he occasionally takes off his shirt for female viewers,

about that, am I the only one who thinks Sawyer's chest and shoulders are a little funny lookin? IMO, he should keep his shirt on.

Also, I liked him better when he was 100% asshole. It's more realistic when there's some characters who don't grow and change.

[Trebla]

Just doing a re-watch before's tonight's new episode and I'm thinking about Locke's recruiting of the candidates. If he can't kill them and he can't leave without them have he and Jacob been the "cork" keeping the total darkness at bay? Or is the candidate/Jacob

what keeps the cork/island over the darkness and is also what prevents MiB from leaving?

I doubt this an original idea but I'm just getting this now.

Tonight's episode, can't wait. So interested to see if Desmond is the costant between the two time periods and why Widmore needs Jin's knowledge of the electomagnetism pockets on the island.

[SpaceChampion]

Caught the 7pm showing on CTV. That was good, not great. Always love a good Desmond/Penny story though.

since most of you are just starting to watch it I will spoilerize this:

Spoiler

What does Eloise know about the alternate universe, and does Charles know it too? Why is Penny not a Widmore? Did she take her mom's maiden name, and (not that it is significant) who is her mom anyway?

So in the alternate Desmond is going to talk to the other 815ers... I guess he bought Daniel's story, but I don't see how he went from that story to man on a mission. The writers seem to be taking shortcuts.

Not sure I like the calm and full of faith Desmond following Sayid -- Desmond is best when he is desperate and passionate. But I'm looking forward to seeing where this is going.

Desmond gets Penny in both timelines, so he has nothing to lose presumably - unless he dies in this timeline.

[Gertrude]

Arrrgh! A storm is causing the sound to cut in and out just when it's getting interesting (Eloise). Damn it.

[Trebla]

What does Eloise know about the alternate universe, and does Charles know it too? Why is Penny not a Widmore? Did she take her mom's maiden name, and (not that it is significant) who is her mom anyway?

So in the alternate Desmond is going to talk to the other 815ers... I guess he bought Daniel's story, but I don't see how he went from that story to man on a mission. The writers seem to be taking shortcuts.

Not sure I like the calm and full of faith Desmond following Sayid -- Desmond is best when he is desperate and passionate. But I'm looking forward to seeing where this is going.

Desmond gets Penny in both timelines, so he has nothing to lose presumably - unless he dies in this timeline.

Penny would not be a Woodmore because Eloise is not her mother, right. Not sure if she's a child from an older marriage or was an affair Charles had. But it appears as if in this timeline Daniel is the favorite. When I saw her running i shouted out "They switched!". Desmond was the one who got Widmore's attentions (and that expensive whiskey from season 3) while I thought perhaps Penny was training for the race to impress her father.

I was also wondering how Eloise knew so much. She seemed to immediately recognize Desmond. Either she also had an experience like Daniel did or someone is still left pullingwhats up strings. Perhaps Jacob is not dead in this timeline afterall. Also Desond seemed to have the same reaction Charlie did, he wants to "share" his experience. Charlie seemed to have seen Claire in his vision. Beautiful blonde.

Desmond following Sayid was odd but perhaps Zoe was right...his brain was fried.