Eradicating "Nice Guy" from your life

[Elrostar]

just be yourself

This only works for people for whom their real personality is affable. What about people who are genuinely douchebags, assholes, or just completely off-putting? Should they be themselves as well? :)

The advice that one should 'be oneself' is a trite little truism that does little to actually help anyone. Because seriously, unless your other plan was to actually assume the identity of a different person, it's hard to be someone other than yourself. One might say that it's a philosophical question whether it's even possible.

So seriously, don't be yourself. Be awesome. You know, like me.

[alguien]

just be yourself

Virgin.

:P

[lokisnow]

There is the whole Gottman theory of conflict types, It could relate to the nice guys issue. The background: people, both male and female, tend to fall into three categories. Avoidant, validating, or volatile. Conflict avoidant people tend to try to cover up conflict as quickly as possible and will nearly instantly focus on reassuring one another of the positive things in the relationship. Validating people like to have long, meaningful discussions of feelings and are the people for whom the traditional "I-statement" style of conflict resolution comes naturally. Volatile people like the passion and excitement that comes from a good argument, and also tend to be equally passionate when it comes to declarations of devotion and love. And it seems one of the factors that most influences relationship success is being matched with someone of the same style.

[turinturambar]

In my experience, most of the guys who say "I'm such a nice guy, but it's not getting me laid, so I'll try and be a dick and see if that works!" already are dicks, and that's why the ladies are not interested. Just sayin'.

Na, it's more like they observe what works and try to mimic it. People tire of being lonely. Also, people can become bitter from continual rejection which can lead to a change in behavior. And oddly enough that change in behavior often gets them more attention from the opposite sex. Now, if their complain is about getting laid, then yes they probably already were dicks. If it's companionship they want and can't seem to find because what they have is not working, then I don't see anything wrong with those who want to change it.

The way I look at it though is that it's possible to change the behavior while still being nice. I like the way Lord o' Bones put it. Nice guys though need to quit being afraid of putting themselves out there, or afraid of offending a woman, and just go for it more often. And some women need to consider that sometimes those guys who always say and do the right things and appear to be brimming with confidence are that way because they have perfected the game as a result of practicing it on hundreds of women. But these things will never really change and I doubt people will ever really understand them.

[Godlikebuthumble]

/snip

QFT

In other news, I can't believe this thread is still going strong. :stunned:

How about the more pressing issues, like the fact I just had to pay €26 (that's about half a million if you are from Oz), for two vending machine beers, one straight Jack and a Jack-Coke? WTF is wrong with people? Never EVER going back to that club again.

Apologies, that came from my slightly drunk and mightily ticked off self. Proceed.

[kiko]

Na, it's more like they observe what works and try to mimic it.

Seriously. If you are the nice guy in it's positive definition (shy, respectful, and so on - we just had a thread about it, no need to rehash it) - what are you doing in an environment where assholes get the girls?

Remember, similar negative character traits that lead to assholism in guys probably exist in those women who are attracted to them.

If you try to get them, good luck! I'm sure you have your reason to not go for the nice girls, but don't come whining if the other kind ignores you.

People tire of being lonely.

They feel less lonely after one night stands?

[turinturambar]

QFT

In other news, I can't believe this thread is still going strong. :stunned:

How about the more pressing issues, like the fact I just had to pay €26 (that's about half a million if you are from Oz), for two vending machine beers, one straight Jack and a Jack-Coke? WTF is wrong with people? Never EVER going back to that club again.

Apologies, that came from my slightly drunk and mightily ticked off self. Proceed.

That's a good amount my friend. Next time I find myself in a tornado warning I'll be sure to search the fucker out. Sounds like my wallet will go a long way there.

Seriously. If you are the nice guy in it's positive definition (shy, respectful, and so on - we just had a thread about it, no need to rehash it) - what are you doing in an environment where assholes get the girls?

Remember, similar negative character traits that lead to assholism in guys probably exist in those women who are attracted to them.

If you try to get them, good luck! I'm sure you have your reason to not go for the nice girls, but don't come whining if the other kind ignores you.

Well, assholes often pick up women at the bars. Are nice guys not suppose to hang out at bars now? And I don't think that women who fall for assholes are suffering from the same traits. Some people are fall for the lines, the moves, etc. And some people are simply attracted to the edgier bad boys or bad girls. And as Raids said, sometimes people intentionally go for people they know they don't want to marry because they themselves aren't looking to settle down. Just looking for a bit of fun. Usually when they reach the point that they want to settle down they start looking for other characteristics. As for myself, I use to date a lot of women who were the woman's equivalent of an "asshole". Probably because I was nervous and shy and didn't put myself out there often so I often ended up with women who came onto me. Perhaps the pursuers are more likely to possess these traits? I don't know.

They feel less lonely after one night stands?

Often times yes. It can be a good medicine. It may be different for other people, but when I split with my ex, the only woman I'd been with for 5 years, I was with more women in the immediate months following the split than I had been my entire life before meeting her. I hated waking up alone with nobody there so I slept with more and more women as that was the only thing at the time that kept me from completely breaking down. It helped quite a bit in many ways. It's not something I would recommend to anybody, but cold turkey isn't for me.

[Shryke]

Yeah, the thing about waking up after a one night stand or something in that vein, especially if you have been or generally think of yourself as a shy/nice/etc guy, is that you feel GOOD.

I mean, you fucking did it! That thing you never thought you could. It's a hell of a confidence boosting high.

And hell, that applies to even the start of a serious relationship. When you really like that girl but you are used to rejection, when you actually get that girl, it's a great feeling.

[Isis]

This only works for people for whom their real personality is affable. What about people who are genuinely douchebags, assholes, or just completely off-putting? Should they be themselves as well? :)

Yes. It's best to be honest. Otherwise they'll be deluding someone into thinking they're a decent human being and when that person discovers the truth they'll be even more pissed off about it than they would have been if they'd known up front that there were involved with a [insert derogatory term of your choice here].

[Ormond]

When we decide to go out to eat, don't tell me, "aww, wherever YOU want to go, honeykins."

Don't use baby talk to me.

Don't whine like a little girl when you're having an orgasm.

Get off your momma's titty. No, I don't want to move in with you if you live next door to your mom - no matter how cool you say she is.

Don't call me every hour or text me every hour.

These are things that folks might associate with the "nice guy." I, however, associate it with being less assertive and manly. Yes, manly. If I wanted to date someone with a vagina, I'd be a lesbian.

I'm sorry, but that "vagina" comment is just sexist and rude. The idea that that body part somehow should or does go along with these personality characteristics is insulting. Most of the women I know don't have those traits.

[Solmyr]

A page ago there was a heated debate about sensitive guys and the only conclusion I reached was that sensitive guys in their early 20s are less likely to succeed in scoring women than their future selfs.

Without trying to generalize for the entire population, I do believe this is somewhat true, as both guys and girls in their early 20s are rarely looking so settle down with a life partner just yet. They'd rather experiment, so the demand for sensitive, "nice guys" is less than the supply.

Many older (yes, the age card is strong in this discussion) posters claimed that sensitive guys have just as big a chance to find a good relationship, however, the existence of such bitter and controversial articles as the one given earlier proves that there are quite a number of girls out there who prey upon those "unmanly" man.

Since we've stayed on the guy topic for waay too long, I'm gonna try passing the ball by questioning women's sensitivity.

Why does a sensitive men spark so much controversy, but it is ok for women to be as sensitive as they wish (in rational boundaries, ofc - we're not talking about those girls who start crying/yelling at every second comment). I've never seen a woman being hampered in finding a relationship by her sensitivity. There are actually a lot of guys to whom sensitive chicks are appealing.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Because in many cultures, women are "supposed" to be the sensitive ones. They cry, they get upset, they have feeeeeelings that men don't. (Or that men aren't supposed to show.)

[Elrostar]

Real men don't have feelings. It's an illusion perpetuated by the weak, pathetic, follower types who aren't able to stand up for themselves.

Real mean are the strong silent type. And they know how to take control of a woman and show her who's the boss. Howard Roark is a real man, and he knows how to take Dominique.

I mean, if we can't trust Ayn Rand to be the ultimate source for wisdom regarding relationships between men and women, to whom can we turn?

[Guest Raidne]

Currently, at almost this very moment, I am falling all over myself making conversation with the cute tech guy who just waltzed into my office to fix my printer, and he is most assuredly a "nice guy." He's just really cute, and wearing skinny black jeans with with a white button down shirt and a skinny tie and sneakers, and at least 5 years younger than me. So cute. *sigh*

[DanteGabriel]

Currently, at almost this very moment, I am falling all over myself making conversation with the cute tech guy who just waltzed into my office to fix my printer, and he is most assuredly a "nice guy." He's just really cute, and wearing skinny black jeans with with a white button down shirt and a skinny tie and sneakers, and at least 5 years younger than me. So cute. *sigh*

Uh oh. Don't be the Creepy Nice Chick. ;)

[Guest Raidne]

I'm just going to adopt a male attitude and not care if he thinks I'm creepy. :)

Truthfully, after three weeks without a working office printer I'd probably think James Gandolfini was Jude Law if he showed up with a brand new laser printer.

[Shemy]

Currently, at almost this very moment, I am falling all over myself making conversation with the cute tech guy who just waltzed into my office to fix my printer, and he is most assuredly a "nice guy." He's just really cute, and wearing skinny black jeans with with a white button down shirt and a skinny tie and sneakers, and at least 5 years younger than me. So cute. *sigh*

Puppies are cute.

I don't think you'd take one to bed with you or consider making it your partner ;p.

I hate that word. Its a word of 1000 meanings, and each one more confusing than the next.

[Guest Raidne]

Puppies are cute.

I don't think you'd take one to bed with you or consider making it your partner ;p.

I hate that word. Its a word of 1000 meanings, and each one more confusing than the next.

Well, that works, because, personally, I can wholly enjoy talking to someone that I think is cute, and have fun with it, without ever even considering some hypothetical boning of the person in question.

Also, FYI, I'm married. Other guys are "cute."

[Shemy]

Well, that works, because, personally, I can wholly enjoy talking to someone that I think is cute, and have fun with it, without ever even considering some hypothetical boning of the person in question.

Oh, no doubt, I never said there's no such thing as just being friends with people. I was getting the feeling your post was to emphasize that you can be a nice guy and get paid attention to in that way. I have no problem with nice guys having a lot of women friends. That's just it though, they see them as friends, cute can mean anything from sweet to attractive in a boyish way to warm to friendly to huggable to friendly looking but not hot to bringing out motherly tendencies in you to blaaaaa its neverending. Not that there's anything wrong with making friends, but well it's not what you want to achieve, 100 women friends with no prospects of seeing any of them as a chance of a relationship.

[Insert Edit]

There is the whole Gottman theory of conflict types, It could relate to the nice guys issue. The background: people, both male and female, tend to fall into three categories. Avoidant, validating, or volatile. Conflict avoidant people tend to try to cover up conflict as quickly as possible and will nearly instantly focus on reassuring one another of the positive things in the relationship. Validating people like to have long, meaningful discussions of feelings and are the people for whom the traditional "I-statement" style of conflict resolution comes naturally. Volatile people like the passion and excitement that comes from a good argument, and also tend to be equally passionate when it comes to declarations of devotion and love. And it seems one of the factors that most influences relationship success is being matched with someone of the same style.

This is my life story. I'm an avoider. I dig women who are volatile. 25 years and two divorces later, here I sit - now interacting with society largely through a keyboard. :)