[BOOK SPOILERS] EP105 Discussion

[Ran]

There were many other knights shown watching and getting ready for the joust last episode. I think they've basically made the Mountain and the Knight of Flowers the final joust of the tournament, which is why we don't glimpse anyone else who's ready.

Episode 6:

Beric is introduced, but this actor is basically a featured extra and will not necessarily ever be seen again. ANd they've already introduced Thoros by mentioning him last episode. Why does he need to actually be seen? Especially when, again, it'd be as a featured extra who isn't necessarily the "real" Thoros that we'll see if the show gets a third season? You have to take these things into account.

Oh, and re: the Eyrie,

They changed the effects some from the screener! They had a big gate/castle at the head of that bridge, which I figured was their nod to the Gates of the Moon... but it's gone entirely now. Baffling.

Hey, geologist types, what do you figure that mountain is even supposed to be? I'm thinking some sort of karst limestone formation, with a bit of fantasy twist. I literally spent ten minutes researching and trying to figure it out for my recap.

Re: Loras,

I wonder just what people think Loras should look like? I'm getting the sense that some think he ought to be all rippling muscles and stuff. That's... that's not Loras from the book.

[Eddard house stark]

jamies sword play was weak. the whole scene was so slow and poorly executed. jamie literally looked like he was fighting in slo mo. bronn was betrayed as a better swordsman and looked like he woukd own jamie

[Arrogant Bastard]

I agree, they should have introduced Thoros and Beric, because they become so important in the later books. overall, I was a bit disappointed about the lack of knights at the Hand's Tournament. I understand that they have to watch the budget, but if you build an entire set for the tournament, why do we only see THREE knights jousting and "Don't-call-me-Ser" Sandor crossing blades with his brother. If you don't have enough people for the melee, at least have two stunt guys don different suits of armour and coat of arms a couple of times, so we at least get the impression that this is a tournament.

The show has enough characters as it is right now, there's really no need to introduce Thoros and spend time on his melee when he won't become relevant until the third season. They don't even know if there will be a third season at this point so why cast an actor for one episode where he appears for less than a minute and won't show up again for two years? This show has to appeal to people who haven't read the books and introducing characters in the first season that won't do anything for a while will just confuse new viewers and honestly waste screen time.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

I don't like how the did the fight with Jaime and Ned. I understand they needed to make Ned put up a fight, Jaime is his vast superior as I understand in the books. Also Loras looks....soft. He's supposed to be a great knight, and the dude they cast for him is in terrible shape. Nitpicking.

Overall I'm very pleased!

I am not sure how people get Loras "was a great knight"

He was a tourney knight and something like 16 years old---he puts on a good show, but he used a nasty trick to win, not skill

Yes, he has been training with sword and lance since he could walk, but at this point, he has not fought any actual battles---the only thing great about him (at this point) is his armor

[Samalander]

Some thoughts:

- Ned's fighting skills in the show are way better than in the books. He's supposed to be an average swordsman and great strategist, but here he is holding his own against the Kingslayer, presumably the best sword alive at this point.

- "Heads on spikes" threat is supposed to be a very Lannister shtick. Yet in this episode every character we meet from Robert to Arya seems to be using it.

[SerArthurHeath]

On TVWOP, several people think Jaime would have been easily killed by Ned. It's only a small thing but it's rather galling. They can show Lannister killing a million Karstarks at the Whispering Wood but it will be irrelevant because on screen everybody knows that only main characters count and at the moment Jaime looks decidedly average with a sword which means when Kingsguards refuse to argue with him when he only has one hand because they are so scared of how good he used to be it's going to look ridiculous. Especially after he's been beaten by a girl (who in the TV adaption will almost certainly be reasonably feminine). His change of character post mutilation is not going to work at all I fear...

[Herr Fick]

Best episode yet!

But I just remembered that I have to be annoyed nonetheless.

;)

I grant Mr Reeves that the Kingslayer seems to have the upper hand throughout the fight, but it's still a little bit annoying. In the novels Jaime Lannister is the greatest living knight of the Seven Kingdoms and he would cut Eddard Stark into shreds. At least, he is appropriately pissed at his guardsman in the series...

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Best episode yet!

But I just remembered that I have to be annoyed nonetheless.

;)

I grant Mr Reeves that the Kingslayer seems to have the upper hand throughout the fight, but it's still a little bit annoying. In the novels Jaime Lannister is the greatest living knight of the Seven Kingdoms and he would cut Eddard Stark into shreds.

I think he would have if the fight had continued---Ned holds his own for a few minutes, but that's all

His man-at-arms actually keeps Jaime from killing Ned

[julandro]

ohhhh, the scene of Loras and Renly, has been very sexy. It's a shame it has been very short. Are we going to have a sex scene?

On the subject of Lancel. I have already assumed that we will not see anything of him with his cousin Cersei. :frown5:

[ingsve]

I wonder if part of the scene with Loras and Renly is so that it makes more sense when Renly suddenly proclaims himself king at the end of the season. (That was from the end of AGOT wasn't it? And not the beginning of ACOK?)

[Mentat]

Thought the most interesting factor of the series is the omniscient viewpoint we now have.

Makes me wonder if we could maybe get to see the full Syrio Forel vs. Ser Meryn Trant fight. I'd seriously love that (and I think we're due it too, a cliffhanger too far if ever there was one...).

[TheEvilKing]

ohhhh, the scene of Loras and Renly, has been very sexy. It's a shame it has been very short. Are we going to have a sex scene?

On the subject of Lancel. I have already assumed that we will not see anything of him with his cousin Cersei. :frown5:

Hang on in there little fellow. Maybe not this season, but perhaps the next? :thumbsup:

[Axon]

I wonder if part of the scene with Loras and Renly is so that it makes more sense when Renly suddenly proclaims himself king at the end of the season. (That was from the end of AGOT wasn't it? And not the beginning of ACOK?)

I think it was shown for that very reason, yes. Now Renly has a big head...I don't know, if there was going to be an alpha in that relationship, I would think it would be Renly. Whatevs.

[The Anti-Targ]

Ummm, where was the excruciating pain and writhing in agony that would come with having a spear shoved through your leg? The endorphins don't kick in that quickly. Then again I suppose when the adrenaline is up when you're fighting the perception of pain is a bit different.

Something seemed a little off this episode, I dunno what it was, the acting seemed a bit forced maybe? Maybe some of the dialogue wasn't very meaty, I dunno. Episode in general was good. Perhaps I was paying attention to the hype of people saying it was the best yet which raised my expectations too much. Moved the story along nicely though.

I also wonder at the LF/Varys conversation. To me those characters are not the type to carry on that sort of conversation.

The Lyssa and Sweet Robin characterisations were great.

I know it has to be done but seeing Theon totally limp 3 seconds after finishing off Ros was silly. Better not to have a willy shot if you can't show what it's really like. Seemed like a bit of a pointless scene other than to show some TVP because it had been missing for the last few episodes.

I'm glad Jory took a few Lannisters down before he went for Jaime. The earlier scene with him talking to Jaime about the rebellion had a good pay off.

I need to check out the Spitball Watch forum to see how it looked to fresh eyes. Knowing everything that's coming up dampens down the drama a lot for me, so seeing it fresh through the eyes of N00bs means I can vicariously experience the drama anew.

[Herr Fick]

I'm glad Jory took a few Lannisters down before he went for Jaime. The earlier scene with him talking to Jaime about the rebellion had a good pay off.

I liked the irony of Jaime stabbing Jory through the eye after they both talked about one of the Greyjoys almost taking Jory's eye during the siege of Pyke. Contrary to those Ironmen, Jaime Lannister gets shit done. ;)

[legba11]

Why doesn't anyone ever finish that line properly? You're supposed to add:

"And they all stink!"

I prefer "And no one wants to hear some one else's."

[julandro]

Hang on in there little fellow. Maybe not this season, but perhaps the next? :thumbsup:

Thanks for giving me encouragement.

Turning to Renly and Loras. The scene is beautiful, but I thought I had scene sex.

[DurararaFTW]

Wasn't it suppose to be "Opinions are like butts; Everyone got one and nobody thinks theirs stink."

[julandro]

Incidentally, I was very surprised naked Theon. Is this a declaration of intent for the next episodes?

[legba11]

I agree, they should have introduced Thoros and Beric, because they become so important in the later books. overall, I was a bit disappointed about the lack of knights at the Hand's Tournament. I understand that they have to watch the budget, but if you build an entire set for the tournament, why do we only see THREE knights jousting and "Don't-call-me-Ser" Sandor crossing blades with his brother. If you don't have enough people for the melee, at least have two stunt guys don different suits of armour and coat of arms a couple of times, so we at least get the impression that this is a tournament.

Not that I didn't want to see Beric and Thoros (I did), but you do see a bunch of pavilion tents behind the royal stands, so the impression is there of many people visiting for the tourney. It was my only real disappointment this episode, with Loras's lack of stature as a minor quibble.

A few folks have talked about Robert looking bad here. I could not disagree more. The council scene shows Ned's fatal flaw perfectly. He holds his honor higher than his people. IS there anyone out there who thinks Robert is wrong about needing to kill Dany and Viserys? (He also shows that he is listening to his advisors and sees Dany as the true threat, Jorah must be telling them that Viserys is going to present no problem) It may be a vile act, but it is the type of act a King needs to do if he is going to protect his people.

As for Ned holding his own vs Jaime. Not really, it seemed to me Jaime had the upper hand for that brief fight, and Ned is not the type to get dispatched by anyone with 2 moves. He does just that to the Captain of the Guard of Winterfell, not some summer peacock. Jory is a scarred war veteran and probably somewhere on the top 100 list of most feared warriors in the lands. Captain of Winterfell (the roughest capital for guards). Ned is also in armor and wielding a +3 sword. Jaime is not.

I love Bran's upset over Cat's abandonment of her family. That has always bothered me about her, and she seems to get a fairly easy pass for it from the fans (minus a few ranters who see her as the anti-christ).