[ADWD SPOILERS] Hope for Jon + Dany

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

For me, the main difference is that they are not a possible love interest for Jon, who is supposed to have one of the strongest morality in the books.

Jon may work together with people who burn people (Stannis) or use torture (some NW rangers like Quorin - they used torture to get information from the free folk) - but since he is appointed to LC, he never ordered anyone's torture and the only person he saw being burned alive ("Mance") he ordered to be shot in order to save him from the pain. And Stannis or NW rangers are not his future love interests. As Mel thought: "he may not love me but he will use me" or something like this.

This. Also, no one is running around claiming that Tyrion and Theon are going to save the world or that they're the messiah or some benevolent mother figure.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

Yes, and he didn't have a problem with anyone else marrying their niece or nephew or aunt or uncle. He's used to Westerosi aristocrats, who have to marry the correct houses even if it means occasionally marrying a cousin, aunt, or uncle.

Besides, he probably won't know he's a Targ when he falls for Dany anyway.

Falling in love with her doesn't mean they won't end up on opposite sides. I'm sure they will. It would be just like GRRM to have them fall madly in love, and then have to lead armies against each other anyway.

I think Val's silvery hair and white skin in the moonlight do forshadow that Snow's going to be mesmerized by Danaerys' beauty. His conflicted attraction to Melisandre shows that he's hot for fire. "Kissed by fire" was the sexiest thing about Ygritte, to Jon. If you combine Mel, Val, and Ygritte, you do get something a great deal like Dany. At least Dany's not burning innocent people. Her ideals are very much lke Snow's. They both want equality, peace, and freedom. They've both struggled to be taken seriously as rulers, despite extreme youth, inexperience, and idealism. Both have had to be much harsher than they were comfortable being.

I think he'd understand killing to free the slaves. He'd understand not intervening to help Viserys, too, because he himself probably isn't moved to intervene to help Theon Greyjoy. He's been tolerant of Stannis and Mel's tendency to burn people alive who haven't really done anything to them personally. I don't think he'd hold MMD against Danaerys--he's had to execute people, too. He's not turned off from Val just because she thinks Shireen should be put to death. He seems prepared to make a lot of allowances for people, under most circumstances.

I hate that I have to go when things are more interesting! So tze already explained what I wanted to say. I don't think we have seen so many marriages between family members and certainly not aunt/nephew, someone correct me cause I'm not an expert but I suppose aunt/nephew is even closer than cousin/cousin, right? Since you are marrying a brother of your father/mother. No sorry, I don't think incest in the North is well considered, I recall Ygritte saying to Jon something about the wildlings stealing women south of the Wall so they didn't have to marry their relatives, and I think also Cat said something about incest (I'm not sure about this part though) Whatever, Alys marriage is not the best example since she was being forced by her uncle to get hold of Karhold, nothing else. We are not in Jon's head 24/7 so we don't know what he thinks the whole time about this situation.

About the supposed foreshadowing on Val's silver hair, well, the moon has always had a silver light (even before Daenerys existed :P ), and every blonde haired in the seven kingdoms would turn pale silver haired under the moonlight, it certainly didn't remind me of Daenerys. I don't understand why people give more credit to a prophecy/vision, that might or might not be true, than to actual facts like the fact that, at this point and with all the information we have, is not believable that Jon could even like someone like Daenerys. About the beauty part, to each their own, but my bet is that she is probably overrated :D sometimes exoticisim is mistaken for beauty, Cersei, Sansa and even Val are probably way more beautiful than her. But that's not an important fact actually, cause, unlike Daenerys, Jon likes ugly and beautiful people all the same, see Ygritte. He liked Ygritte for what she was, he knows she wasn't a great beauty. He likes Val not only cause she seems to be unquestionably beautiful but he also admires and respects her. Both of them are capable woman. And I'm sorry but I don't see that supposed attraction of Jon for Melisandre, the other way? yes, she is desperately to jump over him and make little shadowy lord commanders but he tries to stay away from her as much as he can and he doesn't seem to like her at all.

About the executions and so on. Yes, Jon as LC has to execute people, he does it with his own hands, in a clean and quick way. He doesn't allow to burn people alive, he shot "Mance" to prevent him from suffering a terrible death. And also I actually think that he would never allow to torture or execute Theon, other way than by his hand with a sword, I'll go further and I'd say he even might try to save him, revenge seems not Jon style, as I said thousands of times, the man who killed his father was his brother till the day he had to execute Slynt for desertion, and he gave him a clean death. When Val told him about Shireen, he was more surprised than horrified but he may understand as well, that Val is speaking what she thinks is the truth from her own experience, greyscale north of the Wall seems to be deadly and that's all she knows so I find her reaction to Shireen's greyscale to be logical.

[Arya Targaryen]

I don't think we have seen so many marriages between family members and certainly not aunt/nephew, someone correct me cause I'm not an expert but I suppose aunt/nephew is even closer than cousin/cousin, right?

The closest relationship: identical twins: their genomes are the same. (1)

Next: parent/child or regular siblings: they share half of their genome (1/2)

half-siblings: 1/4

aunt (uncle) / nephew (niece) : 1/4

cousin/cousin : 1/8

Alys / Cregan : 1/16 (as I recall, Arnolf (Cregan's father) was Lord Rickard's uncle, which would make Cregan and Lord Rickard cousins. Correct me if I'm wrong)

Rhaegar/Dany: it's tricky, their parents are siblings as well, so it is definitely closer than 1/2. I would put it around 3/4.

It would make Jon/Dany: 3/8 (which is 1/8 more than a regular aunt/nephew relationship)

And yes, we haven't seen any aunt/nephew or uncle/niece marriages, and the only cousin-cousin I can come up with is Tywin/Joanna. And Lysa considered Robert Arryn/Sansa as well.

[PatrickStormborn]

Regarding the incest:

1) As far as we know, Daenerys cannot carry to full-term, so their children won't be affected.

2) They weren't raised knowing that they were related. That is a huge factor, and it's the reason that Arya/Sansa and Jon won't hook up even though they might only be cousins.

A political marriage between Jon and Dany would be highly effective. They would essentially -- and symbolically -- unite the North and the South. From a literary perspective it also makes the most sense. Which other character is significant enough for Daenerys? And what about Jon? Val is a background character at best, and I can't think of another character significant enough for him to fall in love with.

If you don't ship Dany x Jon, then that's absolutely fine, and I'm inclined to agree with you. But it's almost guaranteed to happen.

[ARYa_Nym]

Queen Cersei I brought it to my attention in another thread that Jon is shallow. For the record I don't think there's anything wrong with being shallow in terms of your sexual partner.

It didn't seem evident to me before because it was less blatant than someone like Tyrion.

However, despite sleeping with Ygritte and knowing her better he never considered marriage with her. She could have gotten pregnant so it would be logical to cross his mind.

He put down Ygritte when he compared her to Val.

"Ygritte had been pretty in her own way, with her red hair kissed by fire, but it was her smile that made her face come alive. Val did not need to smile; she would have turned men's heads in any court in the wide world."

& when he noted Val for her strength and independence the praise that he was able to come up for her was that she would make a worthy wife for any lord which is somewhat insulting. I think he meant well with his comment though but he didn't see how she may not see that as a compliment. It's a good thing that he didn't say that to her.

It's likely she was seen as worthy and not Ygritte because he liked the way she looked.

For me, the main difference is that they are not a possible love interest for Jon, who is supposed to have one of the strongest morality in the books.

Ygritte isn't any more moral than Tyrion or Theon. She may not have raped anyone but she defended the wildling men's rape of northern daughters. She also killed an elderly man who had no weapon on him. She is very much like Theon there to prey on the weak and defenseless.

EDIT:

I don't understand the sentiment that Jon wants a good moral woman. For example, if a guy liked Asha and women like her why would I think that his type is some woman with good morals?

I like Asha but she takes part in the Ironborn culture just as Ygritte took part in the wildling culture. She's a guilty party and has done bad things or condoned them. I still like her but I'm not going to deny how she is.

As far as Dany goes arguments can be made that she's guilty of worse atrocities but as I said before she was given much more power than Ygritte. Ygritte would not be a Good Queen Alyssanne if she were given any power.

[Winter's Lady]

Sigh, why do the good ones always come up when I have to go to bed?

Queen Cersei I brought it to my attention in another thread that Jon is shallow.

The very last character trait I would attribute to Jon is being shallow! I'm intersted in your definition of that word.

He likes Ygritte for her personality, her looks are secondary. Sure, he notices it, but it doesn't matter to him(= opposite of shallow) and he later comes to love those little flaws. Keep in mind tihs is also the guy who was the only one to not jump on the "Ser Piggy" train when everyone was mocking Sam, and the guy who judges people on their skill and character, not on outward appearances or titles.

However, despite sleeping with Ygritte and knowing her better he never considered marriage with her. She could have gotten pregnant so it would be logical to cross his mind.

Marriage? The guy who was a sworn brother of the Nights Watch? And she told him she was drinking moon tea or something to that effect, so he probably wasn't too worried about a pregnancy. I'm pretty sure if he hadn't been bound by vows he would have considered marriage.

He put down Ygritte when he compared her to Val.

& when he noted Val for her strength and independence the praise that he was able to come up for her was that she would make a worthy wife for any lord which is somewhat insulting. I think he meant well with his comment though but he didn't see how she may not see that as a compliment. It's a good thing that he didn't say that to her.

It's likely she was seen as worthy and not Ygritte because he liked the way she looked.

He didn't put Ygritte down. I have no idea where you read that. It is said numerous times that Val is a very beautiful woman, and acknowledging that is not shallow, it's a thing guys(and girls) do. The line about her being a worthy wife for any lord wasn't insulting. It's what he grew up with, so it's logical he would draw a comparison like this.

Not even starting on the Asha part, gotta go sleep now. Nighty!

[David Selig]

I don't understand the sentiment that Jon wants a good moral woman. For example, if a guy liked Asha and women like her why would I think that his type is some woman with good morals?

I like Asha but she takes part in the Ironborn culture just as Ygritte took part in the wildling culture. She's a guilty party and has done bad things or condoned them. I still like her but I'm not going to deny how she is.

As far as Dany goes arguments can be made that she's guilty of worse atrocities but as I said before she was given much more power than Ygritte. Ygritte would not be a Good Queen Alyssanne if she were given any power.

Exactly. Jon has had exactly one love interest so far, who was very far from a paragon of morality. So all that talk how he can't fall for someone with questionable moral outlook makes no sense to me.

[ARYa_Nym]

The very last character trait I would attribute to Jon is being shallow! I'm intersted in your definition of that word.

He likes Ygritte for her personality, her looks are secondary. Sure, he notices it, but it doesn't matter to him(= opposite of shallow) and he later comes to love those little flaws. Keep in mind tihs is also the guy who was the only one to not jump on the "Ser Piggy" train when everyone was mocking Sam, and the guy who judges people on their skill and character, not on outward appearances or titles.

Marriage? The guy who was a sworn brother of the Nights Watch? And she told him she was drinking moon tea or something to that effect, so he probably wasn't too worried about a pregnancy. I'm pretty sure if he hadn't been bound by vows he would have considered marriage.

He didn't put Ygritte down. I have no idea where you read that. It is said numerous times that Val is a very beautiful woman, and acknowledging that is not shallow, it's a thing guys(and girls) do. The line about her being a worthy wife for any lord wasn't insulting. It's what he grew up with, so it's logical he would draw a comparison like this.

Not even starting on the Asha part, gotta go sleep now. Nighty!

I don't remember Ygritte confirming that she was taking moon tea. I'd have to check. I know Tormund told Jon that she could take it if she didn't want a child.

If Ygritte had gotten pregnant he would have to marry her if he was so intent on never having a bastard. GRRM killed her so it never became an issue.

I think his comparison did make Val seem like the better of the two. Pretty in her own way is kind of back-handed compliment and then saying that Val didn't even need to smile to look attractive makes her look better. It's fact that Val looks better but the way they were compared uplifted Val and made Ygritte seem basic.

[Lady Octarina]

He still seems to respect Stannis, despite the fact that he's happy to burn fairly innocent people to please his followers.

Everyone Stannis burned so far was guilty of treason or another crime. "Mance" named himself King, Alester Florent tried to negotiate peace with the Lannisters behind his back. Really, the explanation Mel gave in both cases might have been "good winds on the ride North" or whatever it was in Mance's case, but Stannis's attitude here was the same as when he almost threw his (mater at arms?) from the walls of Storm's End during the siege, because he threatened his authority and disobeyed his direct orders. Ok, Stannis threatened to burn Edric Storm (Jon doesn't know about that), and it was suggested he might burn Mance's son, but that never happened, and Jon seems content on putting Melisandre as the one responsible for that - doesn't matter if she is the guilty one or Stannis; Jon excuses him and is, therefore, able to respect him, but not Melisandre.

Jon doesn't like Val because of her hair and skin colors---he likes her because she's capable and down-to-earth. Two qualities that have never been used in conjunction with "Daenerys of the Many Names". (Dear lord, she's like a version of Tormund that just takes herself way, way too seriously.)

Thank you, tze, now I can't help shipping Daenerys and Tormund (really, to the point where I actually want them to be king and queen beyond the Wall, and torture the other rambling endlessly about how great they are). :drunk:

Regarding the incest:

1) As far as we know, Daenerys cannot carry to full-term, so their children won't be affected.

2) They weren't raised knowing that they were related. That is a huge factor, and it's the reason that Arya/Sansa and Jon won't hook up even though they might only be cousins.

A political marriage between Jon and Dany would be highly effective. They would essentially -- and symbolically -- unite the North and the South. From a literary perspective it also makes the most sense. Which other character is significant enough for Daenerys? And what about Jon? Val is a background character at best, and I can't think of another character significant enough for him to fall in love with.

If you don't ship Dany x Jon, then that's absolutely fine, and I'm inclined to agree with you. But it's almost guaranteed to happen.

You see, this is what I don't understand. You agree Daenerys is probably barren - so how come you think she'll marry Jon? I can see the use of an alliance between them, with the Others invading etc etc. But the first thing to be considered in a marriage in a monarchy or nobility is producing heirs. If she's barren, what would be the point of Jon marrying her? The political stability the marriage could create would be ruined the moment people realized she was incapable of having children and the king had no heirs. I can see Daenerys tricking him about it, sure, but suppose he learned that after marrying - don't you see a new Elia-Rhaegar-Lyanna happening? Jon would probably see that and nullify the marriage before things got to that point, but either way tere probably would be another war, sooner than Westeros would be ready to stand.

[Heathered]

I am probably one of the few, but I am not a fan of the Dany + Jon alliance. Yes, it would be sweet and nice and neat, but that is why I do not like it. As Lady Octarina points out, the marriage would not be beneficial to Jon, whereas it would be very beneficial to Dany. She lands in Westeros, with or without dragons, knowing no one and no one knowing her. I don't care how many sellswords she has, she would literally have to go from castle to castle to get support. Where Jon is known to be the natural son of Eddard Stark, Robb's heir (with potentially the full support of the North, which is more than a quarter of the kingdom), and the (former) Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, not to mention probably Rhager's REAL son. She needs him more than he needs her. And, if she cannot reproduce, then everyone and their brother will be proclaiming themselves king again. No heirs and another all out war in the kingdom.

If Martin is basing this on the War of the Roses, it makes more sense for Jon to marry Myrcella. Martin has already established the main conflict between the Starks and Lannisters, similar to the conflict between the Yorks and the Lancasters with the War of the Roses. The War finally ended with the marriage between Henry Lancaster (Henry VII) and Elizabeth of York. Of course, it could be said that Martin formed an alliance with the marriage of Tyrion and Sansa, but it was not consummated and not really valid. Jon and Myrcella make more sense, plus Jon has a soft spot (like Tyrion) for broken things. And Myrcella is a bit broken.

Oh (I added this to give more support to my claim of Jon + Myrcella), and like Elizabeth of York, Myrcella has been the daughter, sister, and niece of Westerosi kings (Elizabeth also had the distinction of being the wife and mother of kings as well).

[Lord Godric]

I think his comparison did make Val seem like the better of the two. Pretty in her own way is kind of back-handed compliment and then saying that Val didn't even need to smile to look attractive makes her look better. It's fact that Val looks better but the way they were compared uplifted Val and made Ygritte seem basic.

But from all the descriptions we have of Ygritte she is basic. She wasn't beautiful, she was just an average-looking woman. And yet, Jon loved her. He does notice that Val is more attractive, but that doesn't make him shallow. It makes him a person who can acknowledge beauty. If Jon had engaged in a relationship with Val simply because she was beautiful, or refused a relationship with Ygritte, then he could be considered shallow.

But all of this is moot when the discussion is Dany as she is supposed to be very beautiful. So shallow or not, he will find her attractive.

[ARYa_Nym]

But from all the descriptions we have of Ygritte she is basic. She wasn't beautiful, she was just an average-looking woman. And yet, Jon loved her. He does notice that Val is more attractive, but that doesn't make him shallow. It makes him a person who can acknowledge beauty. If Jon had engaged in a relationship with Val simply because she was beautiful, or refused a relationship with Ygritte, then he could be considered shallow.

But all of this is moot when the discussion is Dany as she is supposed to be very beautiful. So shallow or not, he will find her attractive.

I don't think he was shallow for recognizing that Val was more attractive. I think it should be noted that he thought that Val was good enough to marry but never considered this of Ygritte. She's good enough for him to sleep with but that doesn't mean that he'd ever want to marry her.

Jon measured Val as a wife and as a mother and this was well after his opportunity to marry her passed. He never considered this with Ygritte despite the fact that she was the one who he was intimate with.

It was asserted by another poster that Val's looks had a lot to do with it and IA.

Whether he could have actually married Ygritte or would have done it isn't really relevant it's the lack of desire. He couldn't have Winterfell for example but it was still something he wanted deep down. He didn't feel that he could marry Val but he still wanted to.

[NotToday]

I don't think he was shallow for recognizing that Val was more attractive. I think it should be noted that he thought that Val was good enough to marry but never considered this of Ygritte. She's good enough for him to sleep with but that doesn't mean that he'd ever want to marry her.

Jon measured Val as a wife and as a mother and this was well after his opportunity to marry her passed. He never considered this with Ygritte despite the fact that she was the one who he was intimate with.

It was asserted by another poster that Val's looks had a lot to do with it and IA.

Jon Snow was anything but shallow, as mentioned before, he would never have actually like Ygritte if he was shallow, because she wasn't supposed to be particularly attractive. Acknoledging Val's beauty was simply a curteous thing to do for him.

Anyhow, I want Jon and Dany to get together. So what if its a fairytale ending, they have both been through alot, they are from opposite sides of the world, it would be an interesting match. It would seem to me that Jon would have a lot more to gain than Dany though. Jon is concerned about the impending invasion of the Others, and the Others are vulnerable to fire. So having a couple of dragons on his side would pretty much drive back the invasion. To our knowledge, the Others have no projectile weapons (bows, catapults, scorpions) with which to attack the dragons. (Of course, should a dragon be "touched" by the white walkers, that could be very bad.) Dany on the other hand, would get the alliance of an illequiped force sworn not to participate in the politics of the realm. Unless Jon renounces his oath, becomes lord of winterfell as Robb's heir and reunites with Sansa (who has never really liked him) to get the forces of the Riverlands and the Vale, there is not much he can offer Dany. Also, if Dorn were to find out that Jon was the product of Rhaegar's disloyalty to Princess Elia, then they would most certainly loose Dornish support. The Lannisters and the Tyrells are not likely to bow down, nor are the Stormlords. So Dany pretty much has nothing to gain and everything to loose from marrying Jon.

Also marrying Jon means that she will no longer be at liberty to marry Ageon (with his golden company) or any other southron lord.

[NotToday]

When/If Dany makes it back to Westeros, do you guys think that there is any chance that she will spare the Lannisters and Casterly Rock?? Considering of course that they betrayed her father and had the children (along with Elia) murdered.

[tze]

I don't think he was shallow for recognizing that Val was more attractive. I think it should be noted that he thought that Val was good enough to marry but never considered this of Ygritte. She's good enough for him to sleep with but that doesn't mean that he'd ever want to marry her.

Jon measured Val as a wife and as a mother and this was well after his opportunity to marry her passed. He never considered this with Ygritte despite the fact that she was the one who he was intimate with.

It was asserted by another poster that Val's looks had a lot to do with it and IA.

Whether he could have actually married Ygritte or would have done it isn't really relevant it's the lack of desire. He couldn't have Winterfell for example but it was still something he wanted deep down. He didn't feel that he could marry Val but he still wanted to.

For Jon, marrying Val was actually within the realm of possibility, because Stannis had offered him Winterfell and made it clear that Winterfell, which Jon really, really wanted, required him to marry Val. But his entire time with Ygritte was spent planning how to return to the Watch, which meant marriage was never even remotely on the table during their relationship. Marrying Ygritte was never within the realm of possibility for Jon. It's not like he was thinking about marriage with Val solely because she was pretty, but wasn't thinking about marriage with Ygritte because she wasn't. Ygritte simply died long before any set of events that could free Jon of his vows (either via Stannis's royal decree or by his own death and resurrection) could occur, while Val was put into a position where marriage to her was, however briefly, a genuine possibility for Jon.. .

[ARYa_Nym]

Jon Snow was anything but shallow, as mentioned before, he would never have actually like Ygritte if he was shallow, because she wasn't supposed to be particularly attractive. Acknoledging Val's beauty was simply a curteous thing to do for him.

I'm just saying there are different degrees of it. Some people have no standards on who they will sleep with but on who they think is worthy to being their actual life partner their standards may not be the same.

I think he always paid attention to looks even in AGoT. Most of his judgements of the Lannisters and Baratheons had to do with how they looked. He thought Jamie was how a king should be because of how he looked.

I don't think he only cares about looks but he's like a lot of people. He's conscious of it and it does matter. He disapproved of Yoren when he saw him because of how he looked. Yoren as we know is actually a good person.

For Jon, marrying Val was actually within the realm of possibility, because Stannis had offered him Winterfell and made it clear that Winterfell, which Jon really, really wanted, required him to marry Val. But his entire time with Ygritte was spent planning how to return to the Watch, which meant marriage was never even remotely on the table during their relationship. Marrying Ygritte was never within the realm of possibility for Jon. It's not like he was thinking about marriage with Val solely because she was pretty, but wasn't thinking about marriage with Ygritte because she wasn't. Ygritte simply died long before any set of events that could free Jon of his vows (either via Stannis's royal decree or by his own death and resurrection) could occur, while Val was put into a position where marriage to her was, however briefly, a genuine possibility for Jon.. .

This was in ADWD after it was past the realm of possibility though. He said that she was lonely, lovely, and lethal and he could have had her so for him the potential marriage was past tense. He still desired it all throughout the book.

Marrying Ygritte never was completely out of the realm of possibility. If Ygritte had gotten pregnant and wanted to keep it what would he have done?

NW brothers have deflected and married before.

He was already breaking his vows because even though the NW vows says take no wife technically they are supposed to be celibate. But more than half of the NW brothers break this vow though.

Having a bastard was a possibility with Ygritte and the only way to prevent that is moon tea or marriage. Accidents can happen with contraceptives. Maybe she forgets to take it or is in a position where she doesn't have access to it. Or maybe she decides she wants to have Jon's child and refuses to.

At the very least it would have made sense for him to question whether or not he thought that she would make a worthy mother of his child like he did with Val. All he really thought was that he did not want her to have his bastard.

As I said even if he felt that could not marry her it's not relevant. He couldn't have Winterfell but he still wanted it. He said that he wished to have ICE when that was never in the realm of possibility for him either.

[ARYa_Nym]

When Val told him about Shireen, he was more surprised than horrified but he may understand as well, that Val is speaking what she thinks is the truth from her own experience, greyscale north of the Wall seems to be deadly and that's all she knows so I find her reaction to Shireen's greyscale to be logical.

I like Val but I got the impression that he disliked the way she spoke about Shireen.

"If I had given birth to that poor child, I would have given her the gift of mercy long ago." This was a Val that Jon had never seen before. "Princess Shireen is the queen's only child."..."You cannot leave them in that same tower as the dead girl." Jon shook her hand away. "She is not dead."

He said that it was a Val that he had never seen before. I think that also reflects on the fact they don't know each other very well. She was gone for apart of the book and they only had small talk a few times. If there's more of that he wouldn't know because he spent so little time with her.

I think Val spoke in a pitying way but at the same time it was insensitive and was resistant to new medical information on greyscale. The wildling views on it differ but I think they also kill children with greyscale so how would they really know how it effects the children who live with it?

I feel bad for Shireen but at the same time I hope she's not paired with Rickon just in case Val is right. I doubt she's right though.

[kephv]

Marrying Ygritte never was completely out of the realm of possibility.

It was, because there's no way that would've worked at the time. That's not to say he wouldn't want to marry her had the opportunity arose.

When Stannis offers him Winterfell, with marrying Val as a condition, he reflects that the decision would be an easy one had it been Ygritte in place of Val.

[ARYa_Nym]

It was, because there's no way that would've worked at the time. That's not to say he wouldn't want to marry her had the opportunity arose.

When Stannis offers him Winterfell, with marrying Val as a condition, he reflects that the decision would be an easy one had it been Ygritte in place of Val.

He said might because he knew her better. Val had looks in her favor.

"...if Ygritte had still been alive, it might have been easier. Val was a stranger to him. She was not hard on the eyes, certainly, and she had been sister to Mance Raydar's queen, but still..."

This particular comment makes it seem like he didn't particularly want to marry either of them.

Also, why would you say it might be easier to marry the girl you love rather than some stranger. It should be it definitely would be easier.

[kephv]

This particular comment makes it seem like he didn't particularly want to marry either of them.

Also, why would you say it might be easier to marry the girl you love rather than some stranger. It should be it definitely would be easier.

The decision might've been easier, which entailed much more than marriage. He would've also had to burn down the godswood in Winterfell, turn away from his vows, and take his sister's birthright.

He says he wanted it and that was without Ygritte. Saying Ygritte might've tipped his chances shows, I think, that he wasn't particularly against that part of the deal.