Winter's Knight Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Ah, no I agree that referring to death as she doesn't necessarily mean it's Cersei. I mean I do believe that she's referring to Cersei here, but not because of the use of she. It's strange though, because I seem to remember The Stranger ("Death") is supposed to be male - but maybe that's just my own preconceptions playing in! Theoretically, the Stranger is genderless, Neither "male nor female"-so the Seven come out as three male forms, three female and one genderless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Ah, no I agree that referring to death as she doesn't necessarily mean it's Cersei. I mean I do believe that she's referring to Cersei here, but not because of the use of she. It's strange though, because I seem to remember The Stranger ("Death") is supposed to be male - but maybe that's just my own preconceptions playing in! Stranger isn't death, anymore than the Father is justice, or the Smith labor. The god and the concept are not the same thing. The most probable explanation of the use of the feminine for death when personified is part of the linguistic particularities he invents to add spice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Theoretically, the Stranger is genderless, Neither "male nor female"-so the Seven come out as three male forms, three female and one genderless. But it doesn't have to be the Faith maggi worships. Remember, "her husband had brought her back from the east with a load of spices"She could be from Essos for all we know. Thus what Maggi is using for "death" is a complete unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Stranger isn't death, anymore than the Father is justice, or the Smith labor. The god and the concept are not the same thing. The most probable explanation of the use of the feminine for death when personified is part of the linguistic particularities he invents to add spice. Well the gods probably aren't real (GRRM is vague on the subject), and there's also the fact that the seven gods are really one god with seven aspects if you ask the Septons, but they're probably still not real, as in tangible, conscious beings. That's a discussion for another thread though. It's a good point that Maggy is likely not referring to the Stranger, anyway, not being from Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 "Death" as a concept is very different from "your death". Death is everywhere. Trying to explain "your death is here tonight" in terms of death generally in this context sounds like someone's manufacturing excuses for Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Grumpy Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Geez, Occam's Razor people. Cersei murdered Melara. End of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 "Death" as a concept is very different from "your death". Death is everywhere. Trying to explain "your death is here tonight" in terms of death generally in this context sounds like someone's manufacturing excuses for Cersei. Geez, Occam's Razor people. Cersei murdered Melara. End of the story. Agreed on both counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Geez, Occam's Razor people. Cersei murdered Melara. End of the story. I don't get what the bolded really is. Does that mean if there's nothing to really contradict it, its okay to assume its true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I don't get what the bolded really is. Does that mean if there's nothing to really contradict it, its okay to assume its true? It means that if you agree it's heavily implied that Cersei pushed Melara down the well, then she most likely did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 It means that if you agree it's heavily implied that Cersei pushed Melara down the well, then she most likely did. Okay. So using Occam's Razor I think I will pass off Cersei killing Melara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enyellara Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I think Maggy killed Melara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I always thought she killed MElara, and I think that was an important part of Cersei's background-GRRM wanted us to realize how violent and unstable she was even from an early age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 People should realize that GRRM will not say some stuff plain straight. This is one of them. Just like Dunk was not knighted as he claimed and Maynard Plumm was a glamour of Bloodraven, Cersei killed Melara. Oh and Varamyr skinchanged into a dog and killed his brother when he was 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 She did kill Melara. People cannot really believe she happened to coincidentally "fall" in the well right after telling Cersei the prophecy would be meaningless as long as they never spoke about it to anyone...and that coincidentally Maggie mentions death as a female being in the tent with her...and then even more coincidentally Cersei sees the dripping wet Melara on her walk of shame...how many dots are needed, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I think Maggy killed Melara. Then why didn't Cersei try to rescue her friend? Throw her a rope or something. Not just stand around until the cries for help stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord rosa Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 She killed melara out of jealousy over Jaime. I believe in affc she talks of how melara betrayed her or something of that nature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitering Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 why should it be frowned upon to post in an old thread? It shouldn't be. This is the only place I visit regularly that allows it though. I think it's insane that people complain about resurrecting old threads. It makes sense in the computer industry where pulling up something from the initial release of a game may lead to misinformation or some such, but the simple act of resurrecting a thread 3 months old gets lambasted in some forums. So, I wasn't being snarky, I genuinely appreciate that it is fully supported here. See how I am answering you ten months later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I always thought she killed MElara, and I think that was an important part of Cersei's background-GRRM wanted us to realize how violent and unstable she was even from an early age. Yeah. Lets not blame Robert for her actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Fox Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Cersei seeing a vision of Melara during her Walk sealed it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The fact that Melara eyes were accusing suggests some kind of foul play from Cersei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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