MLB: Offseason Sweepstakes Edition

[Jaxom 1974]

TEA, he wasn't cleared. His suspension was lifted because of a technicality, not because of a faulty or inaccurate test. It's an important difference. Maybe he will be cleared of wrong-doing in the future, but as it stands he's just a guy who got caught juicing and isn't going to be punished, which IMO sets a bad precedent for the sport.

Well, Manny Rameriz coming back to play and serving a 50 game suspension for his second PED offense doesn't help either...

[Mack Kilimaro]

TEA, he wasn't cleared. His suspension was lifted because of a technicality, not because of a faulty or inaccurate test. It's an important difference. Maybe he will be cleared of wrong-doing in the future, but as it stands he's just a guy who got caught juicing and isn't going to be punished, which IMO sets a bad precedent for the sport.

Are you an expert on what happens to urine when it's left in a Tupperware container in someone's basement for 44 hours? I will freely concede I am not, but the fact that this peculiarity was introduced into the process is reason enough for me to give him benefit of the doubt.

If he is still dirty, they will catch him again. You can be sure they will be looking to catch him again.

[Lightning Lord]

I am not an expert, no. I don't claim to be. Maybe I have missed something, but every story I've read specifies that his suspension is being overturned not because of a faulty test, but because of a fault in procedure. Maybe the guy holding the urine introduced something extra into the specimen. He passed a subsequent test, not to mention earlier tests.

I am open to Braun being clean. I want him to be. But in sports, particularly baseball, I am cynical. Too many stars flatly deny steroid or other substance use...until they get caught.

Btw, I am not sure they'll be out to get him. Selig likes the guy and he plays for the team that Selig used to own. I think he'd prefer Braun be clean, rather than witch-hunted.

[TheBigTEA]

I can understand why everyone would be really skeptical, I really can. But this guy has had no great uptick in productivity (Hello Bautista) no big increase in size (Bonds) or any of the other traditional tell tale signs of PED use. The guy was great in HS, he was great in College and he has been great in the minors and then the pros. He has passed over 30 drug tests previously and I am willing to bet he will pass 30 more. His stats of the his first 6 years have been remarkably consistent (his .285 season he was playing with a pretty injured back) and I think they will continue to do so.

The guy has either been REALLY good at hiding his drug use or it was a fluke mistake. The fact that his levels where over 5 times higher than the next highest recorded level tells me there was something wrong with the specimen. How does a guy have testosterone levels that high and not show a single symptom of drug use? No weight gain, no performance boost...nothing.

Again, I get why people are hating on the guy. But I personally feel much better about the whole thing.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I can understand why everyone would be really skeptical, I really can. But this guy has had no great uptick in productivity (Hello Bautista) no big increase in size (Bonds) or any of the other traditional tell tale signs of PED use. The guy was great in HS, he was great in College and he has been great in the minors and then the pros. He has passed over 30 drug tests previously and I am willing to bet he will pass 30 more. His stats of the his first 6 years have been remarkably consistent (his .285 season he was playing with a pretty injured back) and I think they will continue to do so.

The guy has either been REALLY good at hiding his drug use or it was a fluke mistake. The fact that his levels where over 5 times higher than the next highest recorded level tells me there was something wrong with the specimen. How does a guy have testosterone levels that high and not show a single symptom of drug use? No weight gain, no performance boost...nothing.

Again, I get why people are hating on the guy. But I personally feel much better about the whole thing.

You make some really good points. It is fair to say that Braun has earned some benefit of the doubt.

That being said, I'm not hating on the guy. For me it has more to do with MLB's reaction to potential PED use by its' players. Given how much the Steroid Era has damaged the history of the game, I feel that MLB really needs to throw the book at offenders and adopt a hard line. I completely agree with Jaxom regarding Manny Ramirez. That bum should not be allowed to come back at this point.

[Mack Kilimaro]

Btw, I am not sure they'll be out to get him. Selig likes the guy and he plays for the team that Selig used to own. I think he'd prefer Braun be clean, rather than witch-hunted.

It's a good point about the Selig factor. The temporary-commissioner-for-life has spun the wheels of fortune in favor of the Brewers in the past. I think that the MLB apparatus has so much invested in this stuff with snuffing out PEDs, though, that will trump any possible favoritism that might be at play. MLB has serious egg on their face right now, and the only way to get it off at this point is busting somebody high-profile and having it stick.

MLB only has itself to blame on this one: first, by not ensuring the procedure they agreed to was followed; second, by vindictively leaking the initial positive result, they turned it into the circus it ultimately became. Had this not been done and the entire process remained confidential (as it's supposed to), they wouldn't be sitting around looking like idiots now. Seems they would have still lost, and still been pissed, but they wouldn't have had the public rebuke.

[TheBigTEA]

Mack-

That is the one point that I think gets over looked a lot. If this whole thing had been done correctly none of it would have ever been known. If the process had been followed Braun's appeal would have gone through and nobody would have been any the wiser. The worst part is if Braun is as innocent as he claims to be his reputation is totally soiled for no good reason. It's sad and I feel for the guy...assuming he didn't do anything wrong.

Again trying to PROVE he didn't do anything with a possibly tainted sample is almost impossible to do. It's sad that the history of PEDs in baseball has put him in the position of being guilty without any benefit of doubt in the public eye.

Like I said before I am a huge Brewer fan and a huge Braun fan so my opinion is full of bias. That said it also provides me with a great amount of insight into how Braun is day in and day out. I watched over 130 Brewer games last year and about a 100 or so each year he has been a Brewer and the guy has been the consummate team player and all round good guy.

Like I said, I am happy he will be playing a full season this year.

[Lord O' Bones]

regarding Manny Ramirez. That bum should not be allowed to come back at this point.

He isn't. He signed with the A's.

[Bronn Stone]

The only way Braun clears his name in my book is to hire an independent lab and do testing with public results EVERY day for the next three years. He has the money - he can afford it. Until then, I am not buying it.

[naz]

The only way Braun clears his name in my book is to hire an independent lab and do testing with public results EVERY day for the next three years. He has the money - he can afford it. Until then, I am not buying it.

This is pretty harsh. Perhaps there's a bit of fanboyism going on with TEA's comments, but he acknowledges it and also makes valid points. People treat the term "technicality" as if it's meaningless, but they exist for a reason. Finding a kilo of cocaine in a suspect's house without a search warrant is a "technicality" but it's what protects an innocent person from someone who may indeed have a grudge or even from someone who's simply incompetent.

And as TEA says, where are the usual indications and symptoms that he's taking PEDs? The only reason you have to consider him guilty in the court of public opinion is the lazy statement that "the sport is riddled with PEDs, so he's probably taking them" (I know Bronn didn't say this, but others essentially did).

If Braun had showed the kind of power boosts and symptoms that known users have shown in the past and then this came up, I'd agree that he's probably taking. But that's not the case. There's nothing in Braun's stats or history to suggest that he's a user. This was the only thing - the only thing - that implicated him until now and even so, it wasn't carried out properly.

[Jaxom 1974]

The guy has either been REALLY good at hiding his drug use or it was a fluke mistake. The fact that his levels where over 5 times higher than the next highest recorded level tells me there was something wrong with the specimen. How does a guy have testosterone levels that high and not show a single symptom of drug use? No weight gain, no performance boost...nothing.

And as TEA says, where are the usual indications and symptoms that he's taking PEDs? The only reason you have to consider him guilty in the court of public opinion is the lazy statement that "the sport is riddled with PEDs, so he's probably taking them" (I know Bronn didn't say this, but others essentially did).

I'm cynical enough to believe that, if he's taking something, the reason we haven't seen the change in appearance a la Bonds is that Braun's been at it just that much longer. Early high school for example.

Look, this whole thing was handled poorly on all sides. However, he did get off on a technicality of proceedure, not because the sample was shown to be in error. If the inital flagging was due to medication for herpes then damn it, face the herpes like a man and do everything you can to take the stain away from what could very well be a Hall of Fame career...

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Look, this whole thing was handled poorly on all sides. However, he did get off on a technicality of proceedure, not because the sample was shown to be in error. If the inital flagging was due to medication for herpes then damn it, face the herpes like a man and do everything you can to take the stain away from what could very well be a Hall of Fame career...

I don't know about that. He's entitled to his privacy regarding his health and medical care.

[naz]

I'm cynical enough to believe that, if he's taking something, the reason we haven't seen the change in appearance a la Bonds is that Braun's been at it just that much longer. Early high school for example.

Look, I'm not gonna argue this forever because you're gonna believe what you want to believe. As you said, your cynicism is driving this, not anything else. But what's more likely - that the guy's been taking PEDs since high school with no symptomatic effects that we can see, or that some guy who collects samples happened to goof up one time? I'm willing to believe the latter until proven otherwise.

Look, this whole thing was handled poorly on all sides. However, he did get off on a technicality of proceedure, not because the sample was shown to be in error. If the inital flagging was due to medication for herpes then damn it, face the herpes like a man and do everything you can to take the stain away from what could very well be a Hall of Fame career...

Again, you talk about a technicality of procedure as if procedure is completely unimportant. These are biological samples that require correct procedure for tests to work correctly. Not being a scientist, I couldn't tell you what effect it might have, but considering they dropped his penalty, I'm gonna figure that correct procedure is pretty damn important. Especially when they can make or break a person's career.

If you were ever accused of a crime you knew you didn't commit and the evidence was based on biological samples that were collected improperly, I'm willing to bet that you and your legal team will find "technicalities of procedure" pretty damn important all of a sudden.

And Tormund is right. Whether admitting to herpes is better or worse in the public perception than admitting to a PED has no bearing whatsoever. You never know, he might very well have admitted it was herpes medication to the only authority that really matters in this case... the one that determines his fate as a ballplayer - the MLB. If that's true, than I can see why they'd want to keep that detail under wraps... because it's no one's damn business.

[Jaxom 1974]

Look, I'm not gonna argue this forever because you're gonna believe what you want to believe. As you said, your cynicism is driving this, not anything else. But what's more likely - that the guy's been taking PEDs since high school with no symptomatic effects that we can see, or that some guy who collects samples happened to goof up one time? I'm willing to believe the latter until proven otherwise.

It is cynicism driving the thought. I freely admit it. But I wasn't actually trying to argue one way or another whether he's been or is clean...just saying that cynicism of the whole issue of PEDs drives me to think in terms like that...

Again, you talk about a technicality of procedure as if procedure is completely unimportant. These are biological samples that require correct procedure for tests to work correctly. Not being a scientist, I couldn't tell you what effect it might have, but considering they dropped his penalty, I'm gonna figure that correct procedure is pretty damn important. Especially when they can make or break a person's career.

The point being that, while he won his appeal, he didn't do it because he was proven innocent. He won his appeal because the procedure was effed up.

Good on him. He won the appeal. He gets to play ball. There's nothing wrong with that. But this double edged sword means that he doesn't get to claim actual innocence from PEDs either as it wasn't an actual tested sample that proved any kind of innocence from the matter and he'll be carrying that stigma all the way to the Hall of Fame voting.

[naz]

It is cynicism driving the thought. I freely admit it. But I wasn't actually trying to argue one way or another whether he's been or is clean...just saying that cynicism of the whole issue of PEDs drives me to think in terms like that...

Indeed. And it's a shame, and it's what I consider the biggest fallout from the whole PED mess of the last 10 years, that everyone gets looked at with so much suspicion and cynicism. While I can understand that attitude, I try not to let it take away from what I still like about baseball.

The point being that, while he won his appeal, he didn't do it because he was proven innocent. He won his appeal because the procedure was effed up.

Good on him. He won the appeal. He gets to play ball. There's nothing wrong with that. But this double edged sword means that he doesn't get to claim actual innocence from PEDs either as it wasn't an actual tested sample that proved any kind of innocence from the matter and he'll be carrying that stigma all the way to the Hall of Fame voting.

True enough, to some extent. But I would hope that what matters most to him, his team, and his fans right now is getting those 50 games back. And, when it does come down to his actual HoF voting, that's so far away in the future that not only could it have much less of an impact, but HoF voters - for better or worse - tend to care more about how much of a douchebag a player was about the whole thing (esp. to the press) than whether the guy actually took PEDs or not.

Hey, it's not necessarily fair, but that's how this particular system works and as you said, we'll how much he'll have to bear the brunt of it.

[Myshkin]

Are you an expert on what happens to urine when it's left in a Tupperware container in someone's basement for 44 hours?

Does it convert to testosterone? Does urine + tupperware x 2 days = steroids? Do you remember the OJ Simpson case, where the defense argued that the DNA had been mishandled and had therefore degraded, and the prosecution argued that even if it had been mishandeld it would not have "degraded" into an exact replica of OJ's DNA? Let's be clear, they did not overturn Braun's suspension because of the possibility that the sample had degraded; they overturned it because of the possibility, however improbable, that the collector tampered with the sample. I think they made the right decision, but I also think Braun was probably juicing. It doesn't "clear" Braun in any way.

[Caliban2]

Aaron Rodgers comments are probably worth the suspensions being overturned for me.

[Fez]

So MLB and the Union have somehow come up with a schedule that will allow the second wildcard team format to start this year, and its a doozy.

Wed., Oct. 3: Last day of regular season.

Thurs., Oct. 4: Off day (left free for tiebreakers, weather makeups, etc.).

Fri., Oct. 5: Wild-card games in each league.

Sat., Oct. 6: One LDS in each league begins -- the series matching the No. 2 seed versus the No. 3 seed (i.e., the matchup that doesn't involve the wild-card teams). The No. 3 seed would play the first two games at home.

Sun., Oct. 7: Game 1 of the other division series -- the series involving the No. 1 seeds versus the wild-card survivors -- beginning (pay attention now) at the home field of the WILD CARDS. Also on this day: Game 2 of the other two series.

Mon., Oct. 8: Game 2 of the 1-versus-4 division series, again at the home of the wild-card teams.

Tue., Oct. 9: Game 3 of the 2-versus-3 LDS. (The No. 2 seed, the team with "home-field advantage," will be home for Games 3, 4 and 5, if necessary.)

Wed., Oct. 10: The No. 1 seeds finally go home to host Game 3 of their LDS against the wild cards. (As with the other series, Games 3, 4 and 5 will be played in the ballpark of the higher seed.) Also that day: Game 4 of the other LDS (if necessary).

Thurs., Oct. 11: Game 5 of one set of LDS/Game 4 of the other (if necessary).

Fri., Oct. 12: Game 5 of the 1-versus-4 LDS (if necessary).

Sat., Oct. 13: ALCS begins.

Sun., Oct. 14: NLCS begins.

Wed., Oct. 24: World Series begins.

I get that they were very constrained on the dates this year due to TV contracts already being agreed to, but that means they should've just waited until next year. The 2-3 format sucks and its entirely possible for a team to play 3 games in 3 cities in 3 days at the start of the postseason, as well as for an AL team to not have a travel day between the end of the LDS and the start of the ALCS.

[Mack Kilimaro]

So, with baseball's Opening Day and also the premiere of Game of Thrones season 2 approaching, I've been trying to jokingly come up with a list of which baseball teams correspond to which Westerosi noble house. I'm going to share my partial list here, in case you want to help me refine with debate or suggest what to fill in some blanks.

Yankees – House Lannister

Red Sox – Night's Watch

Rays – House Targaryen

Blue Jays – House Tully

Orioles – Will

Royals – House Martell

Angels – House Slynt

Rangers – House Greyjoy

Phillies – House Tyrell

Cardinals – House Baratheon

Marlins – House Frey

Trying to avoid repeats. A bunch of these houses could fit multiple teams depending on how I want to spin the description of the connection. Red Sox could easily be the Tyrells, for instance, because they are about as rich as the Lannisters, and you think you like them when you first meet them, only then it turns out they're pretty much the Lannisters with brown hair instead of blonde. Ruben Amaro is totally Mace Tyrell, though.

So instead the Red Sox are the Night's Watch, because whenever they go south, they expect everyone to love them, but it turns out everyone in the south hates them.

[Mack Kilimaro]

I totally agree with this. We straight up usurped the title last year, and we have a tenuous but plausible claim to power in the future.

ETA: You didn't name a House Stark?

My rationale for putting the Cardinals as Baratheon is that they are the defending champions, as Baratheon technically holds the Iron Throne at the start of Clash, but, they recently lost their great warrior and also their tactician, so the hope of their hold continuing seems to be slim...

I hadn't picked a Stark yet. I'm tempted to say Twins, because, like the Starks, one of their key players recently suffered from a serious head injury (Morneau), and they hail from a cold climate and all that. But Stark's in a better place at the beginning of Clash/S2 than the Twins are for 2012, so not sure about that one. Maybe the universal fan favorite team - the team you just can't hate unless you have a specific divisional grudge - would make a good Stark, but I'm not sure what that team is. The Tigers?

Continuing on with some others, the Cubs don't get a noble house, but they do get Harrenhal, clearly. Perhaps the Athletics are Baelish - Billy Beane as Littlefinger. Hah.