Boarders Writing a Novel, Take 6

[Myrddin]

I'm loving this thread, so I have a question I wanted to throw out there. Has anyone had this problem?

I'll get an idea, really like it, and work on it furiously in my mind. Then when I go to write it, the original fire is just kind of gone and it never comes out as strongly as I "crafted" it in my head. I wind up getting bored of it. When I just write off the top of my head it's more fun and interesting to me but stuff can go in random unnecessary directions and it's harder for me to guide the story/keep the characters distinct. Any suggestions to get better balance?

Yep. Guilty.

It's much easier (and more fun) to make up stories in your head. Writing it down in a cohesive fashion is hard. Making yourself sit at the computer the required hours to finish is even harder.

I struggle with this daily. And fail.

[ZombieWife]

Happens to me too. If I find it's fizzling out, I outline it and put in every crappy detail I can think of. I don't think about how I sound or if it is linear or makes 100% sense. I "empty it" onto the page and, more often than not, I can go back and find another way to attempt it again. For me, if I don't get it out onto the page, it will linger, interrupt other ideas and so forth, AND I don't want to lose it.

I have found ideas that I had 6 years ago that I'll read and say, "oh wow, I know exactly what to do with this now."

I say get it somewhere and store it away.

Or, you could always try to "push through" regardless of how crappy you think you are in your execution. I've pushed through on a FEW ideas like that, but it's always a very messy and mentally exhausting process.

[Aximand]

I'm loving this thread, so I have a question I wanted to throw out there. Has anyone had this problem?

I'll get an idea, really like it, and work on it furiously in my mind. Then when I go to write it, the original fire is just kind of gone and it never comes out as strongly as I "crafted" it in my head. I wind up getting bored of it. When I just write off the top of my head it's more fun and interesting to me but stuff can go in random unnecessary directions and it's harder for me to guide the story/keep the characters distinct. Any suggestions to get better balance?

It sounds to me like I have similar problems. I usually have very strong image of a scene, or even an overall arch of a book in my head but the second I try to write it some of my passion is gone, or the task becomes a little daunting. With my current project whenever that happens I just start outlining/spitballing-on-paper, usually that helps me a little. I have had some success with just "doing it", I am not particularly fast when I am doing this but I have been able to make some progress.

About my current short story that I have been working on it is a little over 4k words now. That is honestly a personal best for actually getting words on a page (non-school work anyways) so I am pretty excited about that. I estimate that I am about 2/3 or 3/4 of the way through the first draft currently. It feels pretty good! Hope everyone else is having some success!

[Kaldaur]

Hello everyone, thought I'd chime in and wish you all well on your projects. I've started putting my foot in the water with a project and will be using this thread to keep morale/motivation up. There's been a lot of good advice distributed so far, can't wait to hear how everything is going.

[Kaldaur]

Okay, so I'm working my way through the first 20,000 words of my project, a rather large novel which plans to be the first in a series of books detailing a new world and hierarchy that my characters have to navigate. My question is, how far ahead do you all plan? I've started making notes for things that are going to happen in future books, but what about planning for the novel currently being written? Do you plan out just the chapter you're working on with only a tenuous thought for how future events in the novel will play out? Do you instead extensively chart how your plot and story will unfold chapter by chapter?

Just looking to hear some different ideas, I have a feeling each person develops their own unique style of preparation and writing.

[The Marquis de Leech]

As far as plot planning goes, I don't do anything detailed: it's more a case of knowing what the ending will be like and then considering in vague fashion how the plot will get there. Basically, I set up a few generic markers then try to work towards them. I'm also getting better at avoiding the trap of continually re-editing as I go.

Plot incidentally is a bit of a weak point of mine. I tend to get too interested in the characters or the background.

[Zoë Sumra]

Okay, so I'm working my way through the first 20,000 words of my project, a rather large novel which plans to be the first in a series of books detailing a new world and hierarchy that my characters have to navigate. My question is, how far ahead do you all plan? I've started making notes for things that are going to happen in future books, but what about planning for the novel currently being written? Do you plan out just the chapter you're working on with only a tenuous thought for how future events in the novel will play out? Do you instead extensively chart how your plot and story will unfold chapter by chapter?

My completed novel is intended as the first in a series. (As an aside, some agents believe this is presumptuous of a first-time author, wheothers like the sales potential in several linked books. I digress.) I have a rough plan of what is going to happen later - some bits in detail, most of it just a big important events list - and in terms of its relation to the rest of the books, I focused on making sure this first volume both did not contradict anything I wanted to happen later and contributed, in as much as it was able, to setting up the right conditions for those later events.

In terms of planning it as a singular entity as opposed to part of a series, I did so very roughly - took a note of its events in approximate order - and let myself get there any old way. Many of the events moved, some were omitted and some new ones were added.

Plans are for adaptability, IMO. I only write a detailed plan of a scene either when I'm completely stuck (I usually write too quickly to refer to a plan mid-flow, unless I'm stuck) or when I'm not sure which of two or more options for Precisely What Happens is going to be best for the scene, the book or the series.

[Gabriele]

Every writer is different when it comes to planning. Some work better with detailed outlines of all 10 boosk to come while others, like me, have a vague idea and some geneaologies of the main families. To make things worse, I also write out of order. :) GRRM called the first group architects and the second gardeners, but I think there's a number of intermediate stages, architects who got size and shape but not the exact place of the bathrooms, and gardeners who are sure those fir trees belong here but don't know what flowers to plant where.

There are also extensive worldbuilders (Sanderson has 300K worth of notes for the Stormlight Archives) and those who develop a world more or less while they go. So there are splurfs in this wood who bite unwary travellers into the ankle. Ok, sounds fun, let's go with it. :)

You'll have to figure out what works for you. If writing detailed chapter summaries makes you feel you don't want to write the damn book after that, don't do them. If you feel like you're meandering around in made up stuff worth three different trilogies, try an outline.

[Jojen]

I write mostly short stories, so there's usually not a lot of planning or outlining beforehand. I often start with an idea and just see where it takes me. The real work comes after.

Lately, however, I've been attempting longer (but not novel-length) stories, which has required serious planning. I don't make formal outlines. I do more like general synopses which evolve as I go. Even if I don't strictly stick to them, they still provide a foundation to build on. I also usually take notes as I go, quickly jotting down ideas for the current chapter, or for earlier or later ones as they occur to me. Again, I don't always use them, but it helps keep me focused and they sometimes lead to better ideas.

Now for some words of wisdom from two successful genre writers, M. John Harrison and Neil Gaiman. May they prove inspiring to all.

"Don’t fauxthenticate. Don’t make a text that begs, 'Believe in this, please believe in this.' Rationale is the sound of the stuffing falling out, the sound of the failure of imaginative intensity." (Harrison)

"You don't choose what will work. You simply do the best you can each time. And you try to do what you can to increase the likelihood that good art will be created." (Gaiman)

[Ebenstone]

I blogged about my process last year. It's a lengthy post, but this is what works for me:

http://johnzeleznik.blogspot.com/2011/11/keep-up-pace.html

[SpaceChampion]

Some interesting words from Kristine Katherine Rusch regarding traditional and independent publishing.

It was mentioned up-thread that someone wanted to skip even trying to submit to a publisher and publish with Amazon on Kindle. Danger Will Robinson! If I read that right, Kindle Select contracts have a non-compete clause, which would mean you'd have to seek permission from Amazon to publish anything (even blog posts) elsewhere.

[PhoenixFlame]

I used to be able to remember things in my head (concerning stories) down to the minute detail. Nowadays I need to write it down so I don't forget the minor points. Guess I'm getting old.

For longer stories, I think a basic outline is really useful for making sure there aren't any plotholes or inconsistencies. Details can come later (in fact I try not to think about the details because elsewise I get bored while writing) but the skeleton needs to be there. Not immutable at all, but serviceable.

I'm loving that podcast Writing Excuses! Thanks for recommending it.

[Derfel Cadarn]

I finally worked out a few plot changes, and can now proceed :)

I've broken the 50,000 word barrier, I'm aiming for 90,000 to 100,000 words.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Nine chapters polished up in second draft. 44,500 words. Getting there...

[The Marquis de Leech]

Question: how do you others represent internal monologue? Italics? Thought tags? I was using italics until I realised I was massively overusing them; to remove the temptation, I've limited them to special occasion usage (dreams, etc).

[Kaldaur]

I use italics. I find you can spice up internal monologue by using both "I figured that was just the way of the world" or "He knew that there was little hope for them now. It amused him." to show different sides of the internal thought. That way the italics don't become spam-worthy.

[JGP]

I use italics for special emphasis and unusual nomenclature. My style of writing is predominantly third person objective. Really rare when one of my characters monologues internally. Those breaks from form usually trend to when the character is alone in a scene.

[Myrddin]

I use italics.

Also keep in mind that for manuscript formatting, editors prefer underlining to indicate italics.

(you can use find and replace for this, so don't panic :) .)

[Aximand]

I use italics.

Also keep in mind that for manuscript formatting, editors prefer underlining to indicate italics.

(you can use find and replace for this, so don't panic :) .)

This is interesting, I have to admit that I didn't know about this.

I do use italics (atleast so far) for internal monologues. I do need a way to better distinguish between the characters monologues and a memory of a voice that pops in his head.

[Myrddin]

This is interesting, I have to admit that I didn't know about this.

I just went looking for a source to back up my claim (which I read years ago) and it seems like this is changing. The underline method is not as widespread now as it was just a few years ago. As always, ask your editor for his/her preference. :)