The Human Abstract Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 So..1) Stannis now knows the enemy is coming and can guesstimate arrival.2) He has a "plan" of some sort involving a strategic advantage we are not entirely privy to.3) He is facing his enemies' worst men.4) He is facing an inexperienced commander.5) His enemy will, in all likelihood, get stabbed in the back by Lord Manderly....Yeah. He's definitely gonna lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Godric Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I don't think she plans on taking Pyke by force. All she needs to do is show up with Theon and claim the previous Kingsmoot invalid.And how many people will follow Theon like he is? Theon's rambling to his sister probably led her to think he is completely mad, and he doesn't look the part of Theon a great leader. Asha could show up and claim the Kingsmoot invalid, but why would anyone want to follow this sickly, half-man man? And they didn't follow Asha the first time, why would they the second time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 So..1) Stannis now knows the enemy is coming and can guesstimate arrival.2) He has a "plan" of some sort involving a strategic advantage we are not entirely privy to.3) He is facing his enemies' worst men.4) He is facing an inexperienced commander.5) His enemy will, in all likelihood, get stabbed in the back by Lord Manderly....Yeah. He's definitely gonna lose.I laughed.Seriously though, after Blackwater, if Stannis somehow loses this, he should probably just quit. Assuming he's still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev yn Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I don't think she plans on taking Pyke by force. All she needs to do is show up with Theon and claim the previous Kingsmoot invalid.She also needs sufficient force to keep Euron from slaughtering them outright. You'll remember she was concerned about that as a possibility at the previous Kingsmoot, and that was before he was seen as King of the Ironborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Godric Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 So..1) Stannis now knows the enemy is coming and can guesstimate arrival.2) He has a "plan" of some sort involving a strategic advantage we are not entirely privy to.3) He is facing his enemies' worst men.4) He is facing an inexperienced commander.5) His enemy will, in all likelihood, get stabbed in the back by Lord Manderly....Yeah. He's definitely gonna lose.That's definitely how Martin works. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser-Arthur-Dayne Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 :lmao: Did anyone else notice our two favorite words, leal and serjeant, made their apperance again. But then again, as Stannis himself told us, words ARE wind :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raksha the Demon Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 As mentioned before, Dagmer Cleftjaw still occupies Torrhen's Square and remains untouched by events, so long as Stannis and the Boltons continue to focus on one another. I don't think it's a stretch to think that the Ironborn can slip out during the confusion of battle, steal some horses, and make a successful escape to Torrhen's Square where they receive word of what's being going on back at the Iron Islands (which, not incidentally, are somewhat abandoned at this point, with most of the fleet either attacking the Reach or camped out in Meereen).Unless....Davos turns up quite soon with Rickon and Shaggydog in tow; and Manderly defects to Stannis and reveals that Theon did not kill the Stark boys. Though I suppose Stannis could still kill Theon for having captured Winterfell...But I'm not sure why GRRM would have written Theon's long arc in ADWD if the character were going to do nothing more than be executed by Stannis in TWOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candor Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Great chapter! Awesome character development for both Theon and Stannis.I think this chapter proves that Stannis did NOT write the pink letter.While Stannis does learn the knowledge to write the letter (Theon told Asha who Able was) this chapter shows that the letter would completely contradict his own motivations.When Stannis sends Massey off to Bravos he makes it very clear that the wall needed to be defended, no matter what. Even Stannis' own survival was second to the wall. There is no way Stannis would deplete the wall's defences. And if Stannis needed help he would have asked, (who am I kidding) he would have demanded it straight up. Deceit is not something Stannis is capable of.This.Also, a thought. Theon spilled all the beans to Asha. Might she not have the motivation and the information to be writing a pink letter? Also, a point that is brought up often: There was no piece of flayed skin with the PL. Asha being the sender would clear up why that is. She wouldn't very well go flay a skin off her brother, not when she pities him as she seems to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Unless....Davos turns up quite soon with Rickon and Shaggydog in tow; and Manderly defects to Stannis and reveals that Theon did not kill the Stark boys. Though I suppose Stannis could still kill Theon for having captured Winterfell...But I'm not sure why GRRM would have written Theon's long arc in ADWD if the character were going to do nothing more than be executed by Stannis in TWOW.Definitely agree with this. At this point, after what Theon went through in ADWD, I think it'd be a complete waste to just discard him so soon and so easily. Theon might survive or he might not, but he's not finished (or even nearly finished) yet.This.Also, a thought. Theon spilled all the beans to Asha. Might she not have the motivation and the information to be writing a pink letter? Also, a point that is brought up often: There was no piece of flayed skin with the PL. Asha being the sender would clear up why that is. She wouldn't very well go flay a skin off her brother, not when she pities him as she seems to.The lack of flayed skin — from Stannis, Mance, the spearwives, anyone's — should be Exhibit A for why Ramsay's authorship shouldn't be taken for granted. Maybe he was in a hurry, maybe it didn't occur to him, who knows. But it's still strange for him not to include skin, when we have at least two other letters of his (the one to Robb/Catelyn and the one to Asha) that did. Why establish that precedent otherwise, if not to raise such suspicions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost the direwolf Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 All I can say is when Mel and selyse are notaround him Stannis is Bad Ass.After this chapter Stannis is definitely the one to sit the iron throne for me .Boy this chapt was too good (from time to time i was watching my curser going down. I my head i was saying not the end of the page yet please)thanks George M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 So..2) He has a "plan" of some sort involving a strategic advantage we are not entirely privy to....Yeah. He's definitely gonna lose. Oh, i don't know. The fact that he has a plan the reader doesn't know about seems to guarantee his victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Lannister Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 So..1) Stannis now knows the enemy is coming and can guesstimate arrival.2) He has a "plan" of some sort involving a strategic advantage we are not entirely privy to.3) He is facing his enemies' worst men.4) He is facing an inexperienced commander.5) His enemy will, in all likelihood, get stabbed in the back by Lord Manderly....Yeah. He's definitely gonna lose.You missed the part where he removed the one looming dagger to his back in a subtly flawless fashion, keeping said dagger's ignorant men on (reasonably) fair terms in the process.Yeah, I think Stan's going to pull through here. GRRM seems to be building him up to really get one over on the Bastard of Bolton and his ragtag raid of uneasy traitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser-Arthur-Dayne Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Oh, i don't know. The fact that he has a plan the reader doesn't know about seems to guarantee his victory.Well, the last "plan" he had, he managed to take the Wall with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candor Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I'd think that Davos has given him some piece of information or way to signal Stannis that he can be trusted. Also:Stannis may have just uttered my favorite lines to have ever come out of his mouth. You liked Lady Stoneheart too, I presume?"Sword or Noose, she says, you must choose." (Or something to that effect) xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser-Arthur-Dayne Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 <p>You liked Lady Stoneheart too, I presume?"Sword or Noose, she says, you must choose." (Or something to that effect) xD:lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser-Arthur-Dayne Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 My favorite line is: "Never call him that!" Spittle sprayed from Theon's lips. "Ramsay Bolton, not Ramsay Snow, never Snow, never, you have to remember his name, or he will hurt you."'"He is welcome to try. Whatever name he goes by." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 "I am — " " — a turncloak and a kinslayer," Crowfood had finished. "You will hold that lying tongue, or lose it." idk but i kind of think this is more evidence for Mors to be the hooded man in winterfell from ADWD, or does everyone consider Theon a kinslayer when the Starks really weren't kin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 You missed the part where he removed the one looming dagger to his back in a subtly flawless fashion, keeping said dagger's ignorant men on (reasonably) fair terms in the process.Yes indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser-Arthur-Dayne Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 idk but i kind of think this is more evidence for Mors to be the hooded man in winterfell from ADWD, or does everyone consider Theon a kinslayer when the Starks really weren't kin?I don't get how that is more evidence for Mors being the hooded man :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The hooded man called him the same exact thing, a turn-cloak and a kin-slayeri was just asking if everyone considers him a Kinslayer even though the Stars weren't Kin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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