Dunk and Egg TV Movie - Spoiler Free

[_Oberyn_]

How do you properly explain Dunk and Egg? It's a pre Game of Thrones series (80 or so years before the events of GoT)... People will get it.

Im not sure about that. The tv show its all about the here and now, they have cut out all of the backstory, understandably with time constraints. I dont realy think someone who just watched the tv show would even come close to understanding what enormous ramifications the events of D&E have on Westeros.

[Arrogant Bastard]

Im not sure about that. The tv show its all about the here and now, they have cut out all of the backstory, understandably with time constraints. I dont realy think someone who just watched the tv show would even come close to understanding what enormous ramifications the events of D&E have on Westeros.

I disagree. The novels have far more necessary backstory than the Dunk and Egg novellas, and the TV show was packed full with backstory. The first couple episodes constantly had characters discussing the past and covering exposition, such as Robert's Rebellion, Jaime killing the Mad King, Balon's rebellion, the role of the Wall etc. The Dunk and Egg stories don't really have any absolutely necessary exposition to get across in the same way.

[_Oberyn_]

I think us missed my point. GoT does not have enough back story that relates to D&E. And even if viewers did watch a D&E just because they liked GoT they would not get the magnitude of the D&E events. Thats not much more i can say with this being a soiler free thread.

[The hairy bear]

If the series are a huge success and the whole story is told, it will last seven seasons or more. I think that viewers will have enough of the specific events directly tied to the ASOIAF plot. D&E should be presented as they are: just another story in the same setting with no connection to ASOIAF besides the occasional cameo. And in some ways that'd help to publicize it: it'd be hard to convince new viewers to start watching the series if they were heavily interconnected with a previous show of many seasons.

My oh my... If he's really planning out towards there, I feel like the readers will get fatigued before he does. That last one in particular sounds like it could be a great bore if he's not fully dedicated to creating something truly unique out of it.

Speaking only for myself, every new Martin story keeps me wanting for more, so it's unlikely I'll ever get fatigated. And, precisely Aegon's story is the one I'm most eager for. The background of Daeron's war, Baelor's zealotism, his father's rule, and the rivalry with his brother. And then his own rule, with nine mistresses, countless lovers, the conflict with the Toynes, his brother's death... It's a very interesting period and I'd love to read Aegon's POV about it.

[ICE CROW]

I hope at some point Dunk and Egg does really come to television cus the cost of the books those stories are expensive, so this may be the only way some people can enjoy them.

[Arristan the Old]

...GRRM has given figures for a number of D&E novellas ranging from 9 to 12. We're not even halfway there. He's also said that after ASoIaF itself he plans at least two more books set in the same world, a murder mystery set in the Free Cities and a novel told from the first person of Aegon IV, 'the worst king in Westeros'...

I have read those Dunk & Egg numbers before somewhere but the two novels you mention are news to me. Where'd you hear that? ie. is there a SSM link or something that someone could post? Are these real plans, or just random ideas he tossed out at some point which may or may not really be on his to-do list? Sounds amazing, I hope it's true!

For the record, I'd love a Dunk & Egg movie (or better, a movie series) with feature film budget(s). But I'm not sure if there's enough there to attract ticket-buyers who aren't already part of the fandom (much of the attraction is how they tie into the books). Still, I would love to be proven wrong there, and I'd definitely go see them. More than once.

ps. Ice Crow, Dunk & Egg I - IV are supposed to get published as a collection in one book at some point after the 4th tale is published in Dangerous Women. So if people are willing to wait a while, they will be able to get all the D&E tales (so far) without having to buy 4 different books. Although I really enjoy getting them in the anthologies they have come out in so far; it's a great way to discover new authors, not to mention bringing new fans to Ice & Fire who buy the books for some other author's story...

[CrypticWeirwood]

we understand that The Hobbit predates Lord of the Rings.

I always knew that Hobbits were predators.

[Ran]

I should note that GRRM did not say he plans to write those books after ASoIaF. They're ideas he's toying with, but it's nothing set in stone.

In 2005 he indicated nine stories, but I don't think there's a firm number and I'm sure he's floated the idea of as many as twelve.

[CrypticWeirwood]

As Ran relates in the revised post, it sounds like HBO may consider doing something D&E-related in two years or so, but nothing before then.

I'd actually be in favour of an ongoing TV spin-off series. It could be smaller in scale (and therefore cheaper) than the main series, just following Dunk and Egg as they travel around Westeros. The first 2-3 seasons could be with young Egg following Dunk as a squire and then they recast with an older actor and showing the progression of Aegon towards the throne and Dunk towards the Kingsguard, with a series finale at Summerhall. Unlikely, but interesting.

Recasting of actors is always tricky at best. It’s so hard to find the right actor to start with, have them get into the role and audiences identify them with it, just to have to go do it all over again.

If they chose a sufficiently promising lad — not a tyke nor a rake, mind you, but a lad yet to spurt — and spun off each of the Dunkin’ Eggs into a two- or three-part movie (at 60 to 90 minutes per part) every couple of years, the lad could grow into it naturally as he hits his growth spurt later on for the 2^nd or 3^rd movie.

Risky, but perhaps less so than swapping actors.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Speaking only for myself, every new Martin story keeps me wanting for more, so it's unlikely I'll ever get fatigated. And, precisely Aegon's story is the one I'm most eager for.

Much though Aegon has captured my own heart, and perhaps because he has, I must ask you: Why would you, too, wish to be “gorged on grief ” at Summerhall, like the Ghost of High Heart?

There is something soul-killing about reading a story whose tragic end looms inescapable, its ominous shadow reaching back in time from its inevitable finale to smother all of life’s joy, knowing that no matter what, it will all end in utter catastrophe, betrayal, pain, suffering, death, and grief to obliterate the dreams of generations both fore and aft?

Yes, that’s just like real life — which is precisely why we have no use for such in literature. We need stories to inspire us towards courage and hope, even when we know there is no reason for either. To be reminded of the doom that awaits Aegon, so bright and full of promise now, but without any possible hope for the future, is to reminded that we share his fate.

That does not uplift us. It drives us down. No thank you.

Martin already screwed the pooch on this one. It spoils the story with pain, with loss, with fate. It was a mistake. To nought it will all come, and worse than nought: to ruin. Would you be like Rhaegar himself? He was born under Summerhall’s pall of grief, a doom which haunted his songs all the days of his short and melancholy life.

We need not be reminded of the pointless loss, the wasted dreams, the pain of what can never be. Martin already gave away bright Aegon’s fall into tragedy. I need not follow that camera into its ruinous finale. Too much torture-porn ruins your dreams forever.

If that is what reality is all about, you can keep it.

EDIT: for typos

[Padraig]

That does not uplift us. It drives us down. No thank you.

Interesting post. Still though, is the aSoIaF series uplifting? It has uplifting moments but we all gorge on grief when we read the books. So i'm not sure the D&E arc is going to be that different.

And even at Summerhall there will be some hope for tomorrow.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Interesting post. Still though, is the aSoIaF series uplifting? It has uplifting moments but we all gorge on grief when we read the books. So i'm not sure the D&E arc is going to be that different.

And even at Summerhall there will be some hope for tomorrow.

This is why to read the books, the most beautiful thing that Martin has yet written:

As Daenerys Targaryen rose to her feet, her black hissed, pale smoke venting from its mouth and nostrils. The other two pulled away from her breasts and added their voices to the call, translucent wings unfolding and stirring the air, and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons.

Isn’t that utterly magical? Wondrously uplifting? It is a sudden joyous turn that makes you weep

This is what all faerie tales are truly about: the eucatastrophe, the release from bondage, the unlooked for rescue when all hope is lost. It is an emotion as poignant as grief. It denies universal defeat, and hints at lasting joy beyond the circles of the world.

It is not grief we seek, but its antithesis.

As for Summerhall, it is nearly impossible to see how any hope could arise from that smoking ruin upon House Targaryen.

Yes, Rhaegar was born that day, but his hopes died on the Trident, and this new Aegon the Unexpected seems more likely the scion only of Aegon the Unworthy, not also of Aegon the Unlikely who captured our hearts.

Ask the Ghost of High Heart about Summerhall.

[Pliskin]

Yes, Rhaegar was born that day, but his hopes died on the Trident, and this new Aegon the Unexpected seems more likely the scion only of Aegon the Unworthy, not also of Aegon the Unlikely who captured our hearts.

Don't forget about Jon.

[BlackTalon]

Yes, that’s just like real life — which is precisely why we have no use for such in literature. We need stories to inspire us towards courage and hope, even when we know there is no reason for either. To be reminded of the doom that awaits Aegon, so bright and full of promise now, but without any possible hope for the future, is to reminded that we share his fate.

That does not uplift us. It drives us down. No thank you.

Martin already screwed the pooch on this one. It spoils the story with pain, with loss, with fate. It was a mistake.

If that is what reality is all about, you can keep it.

EDIT: for typos

how about you stop posting and go read some Winnie the Pooh or Little Lord Fauntleroy or something?

[Padraig]

As for Summerhall, it is nearly impossible to see how any hope could arise from that smoking ruin upon House Targaryen.

Yes, as mentioned, Summerhall was a neccessary step to get us to Dany etc. So we'll probably have some great uplifting moments for D&E before Summerhall, while we'll also have some great uplifting moment for Dany before her end. But who knows how pleasant her ending will actually be. There are some very grim moments in aSoIaF. There will be a lot more.

You can hope that Dany ends up ok and you can't do so for Aegon. Ok, that's a difference. But unless Dany is the only character that mattters to you, its pretty clear that a lot of those characters will have a horrible or heartbreaking end. So...I don't see the big difference between the two.

how about you stop posting and go read some Winnie the Pooh or Little Lord Fauntleroy or something?

Lets not be mean. :P

[BlackTalon]

It's people like that who go to amazon.com and give the books one and two star ratings because "they are so long, and they are about violence and people being mean to each other. And sometimes they even describe people having ess eee exx!!!"

[gmoney88]

@Weirwood

Honestly, I feel deeply sorry for you. You are clearly unable to accept the beauty of reality and desire only escapism. This is extremely unhealthy.

You say that the story is "ruined" because the characters will die? All people, all things die. The universe is in constant shift and nothing is permanent. Only by accepting and embracing that fact can we truly be "uplifted" as you so aptly put it. Great stories, like these, acknowledge the basic truths of reality and work within them. In fact, that is my favorite thing about ASOIAF, it does not hide the ugliness, and therefore is capable of profound beauty, in a way that a more fanciful story (LotR, Narnia) could never be.

You will die. Why then, do you want to pretend the characters in your stories will not? What use is a story with no connection to reality? If inevitable death prevents all beauty, then you must be a deeply depressed person, because you will inevitably die, as will everyone you have ever known. I do not find this to be a horrible thing I should hide from, I embrace it.

A story must end for it's contents to be given meaning. Life is the same way.

I really hope that you are able to come to this realization, or you will die in terror and despair.

[DragonAge93]

If HBO did go ahead with a Dunk & Egg adaption, they should do it as a miniseries in between seasons of GoT. Kinda like what that Spartacus show did. It would be a great way to keep viewers' minds on Westeros, and, I myself not having read the novellas yet, would love to see them adapted.

I hope GRRM publishes them into a big book when he's done, as I really don't wanna buy a book with other short stories I'm not interested in when I only wanna read D&E.

[7V3N]

They found ways to include a ton of backstory in the show GoT. I am sure it would not be that hard. Just have the opening title say "100 years before the events of A Game of Thrones. Year 200 AL (or 199 or whatever)." And the first story takes place at a tourney. Egg could give backstory as he labels all the knights with names, lords, histories, etc.

I think a movie would be the best format. The stories are too separate to be made continuous (as a show). Each short story would be best served as a movie around two hours long.

[GoodGuyA]

I hope GRRM publishes them into a big book when he's done, as I really don't wanna buy a book with other short stories I'm not interested in when I only wanna read D&E.

You can't blame him for promoting anthologies. He's been writing collaborative work since the 80s! That said, I'm sure the book will come. The four collection will be out soon.

They found ways to include a ton of backstory in the show GoT. I am sure it would not be that hard. Just have the opening title say "100 years before the events of A Game of Thrones. Year 200 AL (or 199 or whatever)." And the first story takes place at a tourney. Egg could give backstory as he labels all the knights with names, lords, histories, etc.

The issue: Making that interesting. Lots of simple things in writing can turn into laborious pieces if they're not done well. I don't think, whatever route they go, David or Dan would work on it (or Martin, for that matter, probably only as an adviser). It takes real effort to integrate elements of a story like an expansive history. It is better served as visual, but it needs to be solid without being abstract.

In terms of making it a full fledged movie, I don't see the point. Not only would it conflict with the style established by GoT (which is definitely a draw for some) but it doesn't need and expansive budget. I personally think that the bigger scenes in the show were well served. No one seems to get what tricks can be used in a visual medium to create the feeling of something expansive. Not every fantasy movie needs to be shot in New Zealand to feel large. A TV movie would serve the stories well enough.