Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP 205 Discussion

Recommended Posts

Good episode although I didn't care for some of the changes. I guess King in the North means literally King in the North...go fuck yourselves, Riverlands!

Renly's death in the book was much better though Brienne kicking ass was pretty cool.

Liked Bran's scene a lot too. Hey, Rickon, you're still alive! I was amused by what he was doing with the walnuts.

I don't mind The Tickler's getting it early. He disappears for so long in the book that non-readers might not even remember when he shows up again later. Arya still needs to kill one of her enemies when that moment is eventaully shot though. Loved the scene with her and Tywin and that is a fascinating dynamic. Although it's going to be hard to justify her not telling Jaqen to kill Tywin.

Liked Stannis/Davos. Liked Cat/Brienne even more, despite having to rush through that a little.

I think Cersei did come up with the wildfire idea but it was Tyrion who utilized it in a way that didn't burn down the entire freakin city.

More Bronn, a plus. More Edd, a plus. "We live for another day. Hoo-rah!" Liked seeing Qhorin and I'm glad that they kept his line about never being called a Lord before.

I am having a problem with this season though. It's hard to focus on what's going on because they can only spend a limited amount of time on each storyline. Season 1 handled that well but Season 2 is having a problem with all the new characters and stories.

I think this episode did jump around a lot, but I'd argue that the previous two were actually very focused. I think this episode served as a fallout/setting up point for the next five episodes. It certainly seems like the next one in particular will be somewhat focused around Theon/Winterfell and reaction, plus Jon in the North, and I get the feeling Stannis/Davos may not even be in the next episode, considering they are "consolidating" the army.

I definitely see what you mean though.

I was a little disappointed with the actual Shadow Creature, and I was fully expecting it to come out of Renly's shadow. Perhaps it would have cost too much?

That said, the build up, for someone who has read the book and knows what is going to happen, was intense in that scene and my heart was in my throat.

I don't have a problem with what they did with margery's character because I honestly believe she had to have been that ambitious in the books. We're just getting a first hand look at it.

I miss Jamie, but that's because his character doesn't really get to flourish until the third books anyway.

Arya (Maisie) is tremendous, and the scene with her and Tywin was definitely my favorite.

The Dany scenes don't do it for me, but that's because I really didn't like them in the books either, till near the end.

What is everyone's problem with Qarth though?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also have to say how brilliant they made Pyat Pree and Qaithe. Both entirely creepy/mysterious and leaving me wanting more. I'm glad they didn't cut the House of the Undying bit because I think that is the climax of Dany's entire story across all 4/5 books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was my favorite episode this season by far. No unecessary sex scenes or made up nonsense that wastes screen time. The exchange between Tywin and Arya was brilliant. Maisie is awesome, and that look she gave him as she said "Any man can be killed."! That sent shivers down my spine.

I thought the Qarth scenes were very well done, and was thrilled to see Pyat Pree introduced and the House of the Undying mentioned.

Renlys death could be viewed as cheesy but it's cgi; what do you expect. I thought it was handled very true to the book. Brienne killing the guards was awesome; and when she offered herself to Cat later was very moving.

Theons further embarrassment was amusing. Having Theon not know who Dagmer is doesn't really bother me. He's such a small character it's not important to inform the audience he was previously known. It's kind of disappointing he isn't missing part of his jaw but that's to be expected.

I loved how they laid the groundwork for Margaery to come back and become engaged to Joffrey. It was a much need POV from her to see how determined she is to become Queen. It also shows how Littlefinger will be the one to broker the alliance.

The wildfire scene was done exceptionally well. For those saying why did they make it Cerseis idea? Well, in the books it is her idea. Cersei has been habing them secretly make wildfire until Tyrionmfinds out and then takes over. They nailed the casting of the pyromancer. The casting in the show is always unbelievably good. I can't wait to see the chain be thrown in there.

I'm not sure how I feel about Davosnbeing the reason Melisandre is left out of the battle of Blackwater, but meh whatever. It gives an explanation for him being in the leading attack of the ships. The actor playing Stannis is getting better and better with each episode.

The one gripe I have with this episode: The Fist of the First Men. It was not in the middle of the mountains. It was a high hill surrounded by dense forestry. I suppose they made it look like it was in the frostfangs for more WOW factor. It definitely looks harsher and more dangerous. However, it looks near impossible to barricade. I can't wait to see Qhorin and Jon's scouting adventure and the introduction of Ygritte and Rattleshirt.

Ok I lied; I have another gripe. Wtf is with making Jojens green dreams come from Bran? And it appears Osha knows about the three eyed crow beyond the wall. This really makes me worry about Jojen and Meera ever showing up in the series. The way it seems it's going we will probably see Osha lead Bran north. I'm not sure what will happen to Rickon then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought it was a good transitional episode. There's a new boss or bosses in town and that's the series' writers. There's a lot of consolidation, simplification, and plain old skipping of scenes and characters. I still love the series, although it is different from the books in some aspects. They still keep the spirit of the books, even if they don't follow the letter exactly.

Agreed. I'm very happy with what they're doing. Could it be better? Of course. Could it be much, much worse? Absolutely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have a problem with what they did with margery's character because I honestly believe she had to have been that ambitious in the books. We're just getting a first hand look at it.

I prefer the way they are showing Margaery. Like you said she probably was also this ambitious in the books too, we just didn't see her, and this scheming/ambitious character will be so much more fun to have in King's Landing later on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Rickon signing, which was pretty funny.

I was hoping Bran would ask the lord having the audience to kindly wait a moment, snatch a knot in his creepy little ass, and have one of the guards haul him bodily out of there.

I guess next episode will end where Theon says he's going after Winterfell.

Winterfell will fall in the next ep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just remember that this is an adaptation. The ultimate story is being told and told excellently. Yes, there are minor changes, there has to be. Budget, things making sense to non-book readers, not having too many characters to remember, etc are all things that the people making the show have to consider. David and Dan are huge fans of the books, I'm sure they would include everything if they could, but it probably just wouldn't work on t.v. In the end.

Overall, my favorite episode so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's from the book.

I obviously defer to you on the matter and its been quite a while since I've read acok; but I honestly don't remember him ever saying 'I' or 'you'.

Shame that. He goes from a 10 on the badass scale to a 9.9. If you're gonna have a cool verbal tic that makes you completely distinct; you gotta stick with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

House Snow,

B/C Brienne was the badass instead of Loras? Or b/c it didn't look like Stannis?

No problem with Brienne fighting well -- that's what happens in the book -- but I do note that her killing those men is rather early, where it's something of a big deal when she finally does kill her first man.

But the failure to make the killing match the eeriness of the shadow birth was a big surprise, and I think it largely has to do with the "Lost monster" entry, the rather mediocre direction, and so on. I think had it been done more as in the book, in this particular case, it would have worked better. I actually think they had intended to do it that way at some point -- notice how superbly clear Renly's shadow is against the tent wall. But they then went another direction, I guess.

As to Loras, that's also a part of it -- it's not that he goes "badass", it's that he rages and kills his sworn brothers in his grief. It's the emotion of it, and the tragedy, as it affects Loras that doesn't really get conveyed with anything like the power of what Martin mentions in a couple of lines. This is stuff that haunts the Loras Tyrell of the novels, but it just doesn't exist.

Would it have been hard to have Loras spattered with the blood of two guards that killed because they stood outside shouting for help rather than running in?

And why did they decide to have him know that Brienne didn't do it? I'm baffled by this sort of thing, to be honest. They literally gave Finn Jones the scene where Loras accuses Brienne for his audition -- because, hey, good scene with a lot of emotion in it -- and then they go to something... well, boring. "Oh, wasn't Brienne, must be Stannis." If they feared that they needed them to settle on Stannis quickly to motivate the Tyrells jumping to the Lannisters, why not just have him suppose that Brienne did it at Stannis's behest?

Anyways, I had really looked forward to the killing, and it was only okay. I had really looked at their taking those couple of lines and really giving Loras Tyrell that moment of rage and grief on the screen, in the way that the TV show can do because it's not wedded to a POV structure... and they didn't do it. It was disappointing.

Re: Jaqen,

From the book:

"Three lives you shall have of me."

Why he slips out of the tick just then, who knows? GRRM may have slipped himself, or perhaps there's some meaning to it.

As to the red god, yes, Jaqen repeatedly refers to R'hllor because he, Rorge, and Biter were going to burn alive if Arya didn't help. So she stole their deaths from R'hllor, the firey aspect of the Many Faced God.

Edited by Ran

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Reeds have not been cast. But perhaps they'll show up in season 3.

I hope, but I'm doubting it more and more. Jojen, at least, is now totally superfluous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I don't get though is why they changed the way in which someone gets stabbed from the books.

In the first season Jaime killed the mad king by stabbing him in the back instead of cutting his throat.

Here, Renly dies by being stabbed in the back instead of the shadow cutting his throat.

Hmmm....

Seriously? Who cares? They are both dead...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this episode did jump around a lot, but I'd argue that the previous two were actually very focused. I think this episode served as a fallout/setting up point for the next five episodes. It certainly seems like the next one in particular will be somewhat focused around Theon/Winterfell and reaction, plus Jon in the North, and I get the feeling Stannis/Davos may not even be in the next episode, considering they are "consolidating" the army.

I definitely see what you mean though.

I was a little disappointed with the actual Shadow Creature, and I was fully expecting it to come out of Renly's shadow. Perhaps it would have cost too much?

That said, the build up, for someone who has read the book and knows what is going to happen, was intense in that scene and my heart was in my throat.

I don't have a problem with what they did with margery's character because I honestly believe she had to have been that ambitious in the books. We're just getting a first hand look at it.

I miss Jamie, but that's because his character doesn't really get to flourish until the third books anyway.

Arya (Maisie) is tremendous, and the scene with her and Tywin was definitely my favorite.

The Dany scenes don't do it for me, but that's because I really didn't like them in the books either, till near the end.

What is everyone's problem with Qarth though?

That's a fair point, they have been a little more streamlined and given more time for certain stories, like Tyrion and Dany.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 eyed raven?

I caught that as well. I guess they're worried about viewers getting confused i.e. crow/raven, etc..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. This was probably my least favorite episode so far this season. I'm surprised how many people love it so much. There were so many made-up things and huge modifications that it made my head hurt. Loved the first four, but I just didn't feel the same for this episode....

Edited by hk47

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And we got to see Drogon which was awesome. And Ghost.

Drogon was adorable... and so was Doreah. Va va va- voom! :devil: :drool: :bowdown: :love:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does Jaquen reference the Red God in the books?

Faceless Men are supposed to revere the "Many Faced God"

I think they're combining the foreign religions for simplicity. There's already the Northern and Southern religions and the foreign Red God. Bit annoying, but having four religions, including one that's fairly minor until much later on, might have been a bit too confusing for some people. They can just make the faceless men a different sect or division of the R'hllor worship and make things work out reasonably.

Edit: Saw Ran posted and that referencing the Red God actually makes sense in this instance. I'd forgotten that aspect of things.

Edited by Atreides

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. This was probably my least favorite episode so far this season. I'm surprised how many people love it so much. There were so many made-up things and huge modifications that it made my head hurt.

You complain about every episode it seems. Why watch the show if you are going to hold it to impossible standards?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And why did they decide to have him know that Brienne didn't do it? I'm baffled by this sort of thing, to be honest. They literally gave Finn Jones the scene where Loras accuses Brienne for his audition -- because, hey, good scene with a lot of emotion in it -- and then they go to something... well, boring. "Oh, wasn't Brienne, must be Stannis." If they feared that they needed them to settle on Stannis quickly to motivate the Tyrells jumping to the Lannisters, why not just have him suppose that Brienne did it at Stannis's behest?

This part definitely baffled me. It didn't bother me, really because it is a minor piece that doesn't change the overall story which is all I really ask for. But I think there would have been better opportunities for emotional scenes down the line (particularly when Jaime schools Loras upon their reunion in Feast).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×