Raven's Shadow: Blood Song

[Calibandar]

For some positivity, what did those who like Tower Lord appreciated especially? What stood out as great?

[johndance]

Loved this book. I was shocked at how emotional it got at the end. Thought the ending was great. I was satisfied with the ending it terms of this being a stand alone book, but it still left some things open for this one to move along to the 2nd in the planned trilogy. One part I got confused on and I'm hoping someone can help me out.

What is the deal with Barkus? So all those years ago during the test of the wild, the 'witches bastard' kills Barkus and takes over his body? Is this right? If so, what is his purpose for this? Also, for being an 'evil witches' bastard' he behaves pretty normally for those 5,6,7 however many years up until the final encounter with Vaelin. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? What were his motivations here?

[ljkeane]

I think we're probably alright with spoilers for the first book at this stage?

It's not definite but it's suggested that the ghost things aren't fully in control all the time. So for a decent chunk of that time it was probably largely Barkus' personality Vaelin and co were interacting with.

[Darth Richard II]

I believe it's mentioned somewhere that the one controlling Barkus was known for being good at blending in, but I'm not sure. I know Barkus' personality was gone completely after the testing, or at least it implies such at the end of book 1.

[johndance]

I think we're probably alright with spoilers for the first book at this stage?

It's not definite but it's suggested that the ghost things aren't fully in control all the time. So for a decent chunk of that time it was probably largely Barkus' personality Vaelin and co were interacting with.

Yeah I think so to just wanted to be safe. That would make a bit of sense to me if it was Barkus a lot of the time and the 'witches' bastard' just took control in certain spots. Otherwise, If Barkus was actually dead and the bastard took over his body completely right after the test of the wild, it just seems really bizarre that other than planting those notes he seems pretty straight edged and acts like a brother of the 6th order for the most part. Unless of course there are other subtle things I missed.

[Corvinus85]

I think we're probably alright with spoilers for the first book at this stage?

It's not definite but it's suggested that the ghost things aren't fully in control all the time. So for a decent chunk of that time it was probably largely Barkus' personality Vaelin and co were interacting with.

I think the witch's bastard can control Barkus fully, but only when completely concentrating on him. Spirits like the witch's bastard can possess multiple people at the same time. but exert lesser control when they do. The witch's bastard controlled one of the assassins in the house of the Third Order, One-Eye and Henter Mustor.

[First of My Name]

I finished this book a couple days ago and thought it was enjoyable, but overrated.

The grammar was distracting, with all those added and missing commas. Vaelin's not a very interesting protagonist (or at least I feel like I don't know him that well), the story and characters were okay. I don't have a clue how it received a 4.8/5 average on Amazon. I'd give it a 3.7 or so. I won't be reading the sequel, which I hear is worse than this one.

[Migey]

The sequel is not worse in any way. It's just very different. If you enjoyed this book at all its certainly worth reading the second.

[ᴛɪᴍᴏᴛʜʏ]

I mean, I'm never going to not read a book I was heretofore looking forward to for any reason I can think of; but the Internet tells me there's a good chance any consumer of the pair will find Tower Lord a letdown. That's not so remarkable. Blood Song was better than OK and people were looking forward to the followup. What's telling is the uniformity in the answers you get when you ask people what the problems with it are. I'm swimming with the current here, personally, and I have more issues besides. If this is Ryan's second published work it will be interesting to see how he responds to it all.

But anyway, instead of further exhausting that topic I wondered if anyone else noticed something about one of the characters in book 2 that jumped out at me right away but that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere.

When Lyrna is ennobling her two ladies toward the end of the book, one of them (Orena) gives her last name as Vardian. It's also the last name of Vaelin's mother.

[naz]

Hmm.. I enjoyed the first book, despite its obvious fantasy tropes and cliches, which didn't detract from what is essentially a building-up character study of a reluctant badass. I also enjoyed the second book. I don't see it as a drop in quality at all... it's just very different in scale and structure. I found the additional POVs much more interesting and fleshed out the story significantly.

There were many times when I kept comparing plot points and characters to well-received books/authors from the last 20 years (Martin, Jordan, Rothfuss, Abercrombie, etc. included), but I think that could very likely just be me, being overly analytical about things.

It's funny... I'm reading Sanderson's Stormlight Archive at the same time, and it strikes me how completely opposite these books are. Stormlight is incredibly inventive, but so annoyingly and naively written. Meanwhile Raven's Shadow is nothing incredibly new, storywise, but is written to be much more engaging and compelling. It makes me realize that simple ideas written well work so much better than new ideas written poorly.

[Gaston de Foix]

I mean, I'm never going to not read a book I was heretofore looking forward to for any reason I can think of; but the Internet tells me there's a good chance any consumer of the pair will find Tower Lord a letdown. That's not so remarkable. Blood Song was better than OK and people were looking forward to the followup. What's telling is the uniformity in the answers you get when you ask people what the problems with it are. I'm swimming with the current here, personally, and I have more issues besides. If this is Ryan's second published work it will be interesting to see how he responds to it all.

But anyway, instead of further exhausting that topic I wondered if anyone else noticed something about one of the characters in book 2 that jumped out at me right away but that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere.

When Lyrna is ennobling her two ladies toward the end of the book, one of them (Orena) gives her last name as Vardian. It's also the last name of Vaelin's mother.

well spotted, Timothy I missed that completely. I wish there were more clever little details of that kind- any fantasy writer in the post GRRM era should have these arrows in their quiver.

[Faint]

I am quite surprised at some of the reaction to the second book. I found it only slightly less engaging than the first. I see its flaws as Lyrna and Reva having not close to enough chapters to tell what were pretty extensive storylines, which also applies to Frentis as to the first half of his story (in which he travels across three continents in the space of a handful of chapters). In contrast, very little happens during Vaelin's chapters or during the second half of Frentis' story. Taken together, I wish the author had ditched Vaelin for the first two thirds of the book, giving the space to Lyrna, Reva and Frentis, in order to flesh out their narratives.

[Mexal]

I am quite surprised at some of the reaction to the second book. I found it only slightly less engaging than the first. I see its flaws as Lyrna and Reva having not close to enough chapters to tell what were pretty extensive storylines, which also applies to Frentis as to the first half of his story (in which he travels across three continents in the space of a handful of chapters). In contrast, very little happens during Vaelin's chapters or during the second half of Frentis' story. Taken together, I wish the author had ditched Vaelin for the first two thirds of the book, giving the space to Lyrna, Reva and Frentis, in order to flesh out their narratives.

I can agree with that though I personally would have liked Vaelin's story to be more localized while everything else was happening around the world. Thought Ryan could have done a ton of world building there.

It's funny... I'm reading Sanderson's Stormlight Archive at the same time, and it strikes me how completely opposite these books are. Stormlight is incredibly inventive, but so annoyingly and naively written. Meanwhile Raven's Shadow is nothing incredibly new, storywise, but is written to be much more engaging and compelling. It makes me realize that simple ideas written well work so much better than new ideas written poorly.

Agreed completely. It's like True Detective on HBO. It's a well worn story, one that's been done a 1000 times, but when executed well, it feels fresh. That's how I felt about Blood Song. To me, the execution was almost perfect and I was so caught up in the story and didn't at all think about the fact that I've read this story before even though I have. These stories work because they're good stories, it's generally the execution that falls well short thus making it derivative.

[Faint]

I can agree with that though I personally would have liked Vaelin's story to be more localized while everything else was happening around the world. Thought Ryan could have done a ton of world building there.

Honestly, it read to me like Vaelin was in a holding pattern for almost the entire book and the only reason he was included as a point-of-view character before the ending was because he was the central figure from the first book. The author should have had more courage and stripped him from the narrative until he got to the book's conclusion. If he really had no story to tell for Vaelin until the third book, then he should not have sacrificed the narratives of the other characters simply to include Vaelin for fear of how readers would react to his absence.

[naz]

Yeah, but if Ryan did that, then everyone would be complaining about keeping the "main" character away from the story until the end, like a deus ex machina. I think it was fine the way it was written. You get to see Vaelin as the reluctant hero. Sure, he mopes around a while, but he provides a good backdrop to see what's going on in the Reaches. I particularly liked Dahrena's characterization and that you saw it through Vaelin's eyes was a good decision. Also, we need to see how he's able to gain the confidence of the few people in the Realm who don't automatically worship the ground he walks on.

I think Ryan knows what he's doing. Writing a good story isn't only about stripping everything away that's not super interesting. Vaelin's chapters, while very different from his Blood Song chapters, fulfil a different but necessary purpose.

[Faint]

Then give him something much more interesting to do and make the book a whole lot longer to accommodate the characters (i.e., Lyra, Reva, Frentis) that need more chapters.

[trickster]

I mean, I'm never going to not read a book I was heretofore looking forward to for any reason I can think of; but the Internet tells me there's a good chance any consumer of the pair will find Tower Lord a letdown. That's not so remarkable. Blood Song was better than OK and people were looking forward to the followup. What's telling is the uniformity in the answers you get when you ask people what the problems with it are. I'm swimming with the current here, personally, and I have more issues besides. If this is Ryan's second published work it will be interesting to see how he responds to it all.

But anyway, instead of further exhausting that topic I wondered if anyone else noticed something about one of the characters in book 2 that jumped out at me right away but that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere.

When Lyrna is ennobling her two ladies toward the end of the book, one of them (Orena) gives her last name as Vardian. It's also the last name of Vaelin's mother.

Good catch re Orena.

Also we have a spoiler thread to discuss book 2

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113711-spoilers-tower-lord-book-2-of-ravens-shadow/

[Mexal]

Then give him something much more interesting to do and make the book a whole lot longer to accommodate the characters (i.e., Lyra, Reva, Frentis) that need more chapters.

We should probably be talking about this in the Tower Lord thread so not to spoil the book for others who just finished Blood Song.