Alia of the knife Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Spare me from writers who want a "legacy" I prefer writers who have a good story to tell and the ability to tell it.And the sense to write not what they "should" write.Well hopefully, part of good storytelling and balance is to be less Jackie Collins, or Jerry Springer and more Tolkein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rane008 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Just to refocus a couple of things:1. Do you guys think it makes sense to have a fully annotated list of evidence that seems to indicate that R+L=J? And if so, do we include the GOT show as well (I suppose we should since GRRM is guiding it, but still)? I'm a bit late to this party, so something like this may exist, but I haven't seen it.2. Re: the jokes and jabs about Ned bedding a fishwife. Fishwife -> Fish -> Herring -> Red Herring. I mean, seriously, GRRM is definitely that good of a writer to "show us the joke", as it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Just to refocus a couple of things:1. Do you guys think it makes sense to have a fully annotated list of evidence that seems to indicate that R+L=J? And if so, do we include the GOT show as well (I suppose we should since GRRM is guiding it, but still)? I'm a bit late to this party, so something like this may exist, but I haven't seen it.Yes, I think it makes sense to have lists of the evidence that indicates Jon's parentage. In post 3 or 4 of this thread, I included such a list which has links to two of the most reputable sites that fully explain the details of evidence. No, I don't think evidence from the show should be used to support book theories. Even though Martin is a producer on the show, these are two separate entities going in different directions on a couple of plots (case in point, Dany being completely fire/heat proof since episode 1). It can be fun and interesting to see where the show includes hints about theories, but show hints shouldn't be included as canon when discussing the books nor should the book hints be included as canon when discussing the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serie Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Just to refocus a couple of things:1. Do you guys think it makes sense to have a fully annotated list of evidence that seems to indicate that R+L=J? And if so, do we include the GOT show as well (I suppose we should since GRRM is guiding it, but still)? I'm a bit late to this party, so something like this may exist, but I haven't seen it.2. Re: the jokes and jabs about Ned bedding a fishwife. Fishwife -> Fish -> Herring -> Red Herring. I mean, seriously, GRRM is definitely that good of a writer to "show us the joke", as it were.1. as far as I'm aware of, there's the Tower of the Hand Essay on Jon's parentage.2. Ned was bedding a fishwife as far as I'm concerned (Cat Tully-->family sigil-->the jumping trout). Wasn't in need of a second one :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 1. as far as I'm aware of, there's the Tower of the Hand Essay on Jon's parentage.2. Ned was bedding a fishwife as far as I'm concerned (Cat Tully-->family sigil-->the jumping trout). Wasn't in need of a second one :P2. Good call Serie! :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Another question that has occurred to me.During the Battle of the Trident, did Rhaegar seek out Robert, or vice versa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zupoleon Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Another question that has occurred to me.During the Battle of the Trident, did Rhaegar seek out Robert, or vice versa?I'm not sure we're ever told. Would be interesting to know none the less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I'm not sure we're ever told. Would be interesting to know none the less...I don't know why I thought that Rhaegar sought out Robert.I know it says they clashed for hours in the waters, (a long time), and Robert took an almost lethal wound from Rhaegar, which read to me that Rhaegar was just as intent about killing Robert as Robert was in killing Rhaegar, rather than just trying to take him prisoner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 And the people who were in the battle as well said that they fought for the woman they both claimed to love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 And the people who were in the battle as well said that they fought for the woman they both claimed to love.Yes, and given Jaimies reflection on Robert, (paraphrasing), Robert did what he did for a c*^t, (sorry, I hate that word), and a pretty face, so by process of elimination it would seem to mean only one man was fighting for the woman he loved, and that was Rhaegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budj Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Even more motivation for Ned not to tell Jon about his parents...keeps the possibility of Jon wanting revenge out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zupoleon Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 If anything, knowing what we're told about the personalities of the two in question, I would guess it would be Robert seeking out Rhaegar. He seems the more impulsive, axe to grind type - (this guy stole my woman, and now he's gonna pay) mentality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDanny Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 1. as far as I'm aware of, there's the Tower of the Hand Essay on Jon's parentage.And, of course, Westeros's own essay on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragontamer Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Yes, and given Jaimies reflection on Robert, (paraphrasing), Robert did what he did for a c*^t, (sorry, I hate that word), and a pretty face, so by process of elimination it would seem to mean only one man was fighting for the woman he loved, and that was Rhaegar.I think in his own way Robert did love Lyanna. I mean his last thought was of Lyanna as he was dieing 16 years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I think in his own way Robert did love Lyanna. I mean his last thought was of Lyanna as he was dieing 16 years later.He in his own way loved the idea of her, never the real woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I remember thinking how Rhaegar was nonchalant about the rebellion,"cousin Robert" - showing up a year later.That was either arrogance (truly a confident person wouldn't lack hindsight like that,Robert is a warrior,not a cockroach,so you can easily squash him) or a supernatural belief that all will turn out ok (Rhaegar riding down the prophecy road) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragontamer Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 He in his own way loved the idea of her, never the real woman.This is the case with all unfulfilled loves. But it's strange to stay attached to an idea for 16 years especially with a beautiful young woman by your side and the world at your feet, nor rejoys in the idea of "meeting" her again even in the afterlife. I believe he trully loved her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serie Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I believe he had these *love* symptoms because he couldn't have her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I would tend to agree with you,Serie,for there is a definitive distinction between infatuation,sweet pre-married expectations,idealism and love that comes with years,getting to know each other and etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zupoleon Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I would tend to agree with you,Serie,for there is a definitive distinction between infatuation,sweet pre-married expectations,idealism and love that comes with years,getting to know each other and etc.Yup. Just like Robert was better suited winning the iron throne rather than sitting on it, he was also better suited at chasing the girl rather than marrying her... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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