Gannicus Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Lena Heady's Cersei is slightly more sympathetic than the books' Cersei, and I prefer that.Actually, Cersei could have ruled as Queen Regent for years, had she been prepared to select better counsellors and take their advice. Had she wanted to strengthen her position by taking a lover, she should have set out to seduce someone like Mace Tyrell, or Lord Redwyne, whose support would strengthen her position.Agree 100%, especially with show Cersei being more sympathetic than book Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Lena Heady's Cersei is slightly more sympathetic than the books' Cersei, and I prefer that.Actually, Cersei could have ruled as Queen Regent for years, had she been prepared to select better counsellors and take their advice. Had she wanted to strengthen her position by taking a lover, she should have set out to seduce someone like Mace Tyrell, or Lord Redwyne, whose support would strengthen her position.I've said it before and will say it again-part of the awfulness of Cersei and Dany's storylines is down to the five year gap being skipped-things had to go to shit in a matter of months and for that, they had to lose 50 odd IQ points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm not necessarily a fan of the TV Cersei's change. I don't know, I think they try to blunt the edges of certain characters in the show and they did it with Cersei with her not killing Robert's bastards. But honestly, I guess I dislike it more on principle than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm not necessarily a fan of the TV Cersei's change. I don't know, I think they try to blunt the edges of certain characters in the show and they did it with Cersei with her not killing Robert's bastards. But honestly, I guess I dislike it more on principle than anything.I always like a villain protagonist to have one or two redeeming qualities. It may just be Lena Heady's acting, but one can't help feeling for Cersei when she's alone with Tommen, expecting Stannis' army to sack the city.I've said it before and will say it again-part of the awfulness of Cersei and Dany's storylines is down to the five year gap being skipped-things had to go to shit in a matter of months and for that, they had to lose 50 odd IQ points.People often turn out to be disappointing once they reach the top job, and perform far less effectively than they did on their way up. I compared Cersei to Queen Isabella, and she and her lover, Mortimer, carried out a brilliantly executed coup to overthrow Edward II, but then completely screwed up their rule over the next three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Stay classy, Gannicus.I agree with Garnicus. Her sexuality is irrelevant to me. She is a nasty bitter manipulative person. As far as her not having a choice of who she married, most high born marriages are arranged, so she doesn't get the "I didn't have a choice of who to marry" excuse because most men don't have a choice either, see Ned, Brandon and Jaime. She hated Robert because he called her Lyanna, period. Her pride was hurt and he was not abusing her then. Not that Robert was right to abuse her, it appears that the beatings took place after she started denying him sex. Divorce doesn't seem to be an option in Westeros so what were Roberts options in order have heirs? I'm talking Robert the way that GRRM wrote him, not an enlightened 21st century Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm sure that Robert's lawyers could have found a way to put Cersei aside, and if all else failed, the High Septon could have been bribed to find some ground to annull the marriage. There was speculation that he was going to set Cersei aside for Margaery, by the time of his death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm sure that Robert's lawyers could have found a way to put Cersei aside, and if all else failed, the High Septon could have been bribed to find some ground to annull the marriage. There was speculation that he was going to set Cersei aside for Margaery, by the time of his death.Set aside. According to Renly. Who knows what he meant?They could simply have had her killed. I don't necessarily buy this lawyer thing because we haven't seen it in Westeros. Ever. Honestly it doesn't seem very practical to go around pissing off lords like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Well that's a matter of opinion, but the norms of our society idealizes staying with one person your whole life, and a generally promiscuous behavior will tend to make that ideal hard to achieve.That not so clever idea was made up when life expectancy was 36 years old, though I'm willing to bet that they weren't any less promiscuous then either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 That not so clever idea was made up when life expectancy was 36 years old, though I'm willing to bet that they weren't any less promiscuous then either.And more importantly before stable contraceptives, abortions and general economic freedom. I struggle to find a good argument against promiscuity that doesn't fall under "We can't handle it because we get emotional".In Westeros however...it's a completely different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Jon Snow Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Cersei having sex with multiple people is no biggie. So did Catharine the Great but atleast Catharine was a true machiavellian. I dislike Cersei because she is so stuck up and thinks so greatly of herself when she is incompetent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Set aside. According to Renly. Who knows what he meant?They could simply have had her killed. I don't necessarily buy this lawyer thing because we haven't seen it in Westeros. Ever. Honestly it doesn't seem very practical to go around pissing off lords like that.Certainly, Tywin would have been furious if Cersei had been set aside, but what he could he have done, given that Robert has the backing of his own Bannermen, the North, the Riverlands, and the Vale of Arryn, and (presumably) the Tyrells if he marries Margaery?A society like Westeros would certainly need lawyers (as medieval societies did) to handle property and inheritance disputes. They'd have combed Westeros' history to find a precedent for setting aside a wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannicus Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Daenerys was married to two of those men. If she marries again, that's the third. I don't mind her having sex with three different partners, as they were her husbands. Now, if she was screwing Daario and another one and just picked another one too, I'd say she's promiscuous. Cersei had sex with three or four different people in less than a year; her 17 year old cousin, two Kettleblacks (right?) and Taena. She counts for me as promiscuous, yes. Robert Baratheon as well. Rhaegar not really. Ned Stark definitely not, Jon being his or not. My opinion could be quite extreme, but what's the fault in having an extreme opinion, as long as I don't kill people for it? ;)I'm inclined to agree with you on this point. Cersei was, shall we say, open for business. Jamie(brother, but fine), Lancel(sold herself to used him), Kettlebacks x2(sold herself to use them), Teana(I think was the same). It's not that she has had sex with a lot of different people, but she was in essence a whore.By Lady Starks definition I'm assuming many of us would fall under her promiscuous bracket, but I don't think it's about the number. There is a certain trust and expectation that partners share in my society. If you are the one night stand type I think that's fine to as long as people are honest that they're just looking to test out the new PlayStation.It's not Cersei's number that makes her promiscuous, and it's not that she is a women. I found LF use of sex and treachery a lot worse than Cersei's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 That not so clever idea was made up when life expectancy was 36 years old, though I'm willing to bet that they weren't any less promiscuous then either.A surprisingly large number of people do manage to remain married to the same person for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannicus Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 One other thing I would like to note, is in Westeros there is no DNA testing. When so much relies on blood lines a woman sleeping around is worse. There will be no confusion as to who the mother is. But if that woman has been with 3 men, whose the father? I think that is part of the reason society until recently frowned on women sleeping around more than men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 It's not Cersei's number that makes her promiscuous, and it's not that she is a women. I found LF use of sex and treachery a lot worse than Cersei's. Pretty sure that you're using a definition of promiscuous known only to yourself. You seem to be appealing to the moral judgement carried in the term instead of the term itself.A surprisingly large number of people do manage to remain married to the same person for life. And a surprisingly large number of them cheat and break up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannicus Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Your right, my writing got jumbled. I meant to say neither her number nor promiscuity as a woman is a problem. But the way she and LF use sex is what demonizes them more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 A surprisingly large number of people do manage to remain married to the same person for life.Last time I checked divorce rates are well over 50%, here in the US. Not sure where you are from. Also, just because a person remains married, it doesn't mean that extramarital sex is not occurring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 That not so clever idea was made up when life expectancy was 36 years old, though I'm willing to bet that they weren't any less promiscuous then either.Where does it say life expectancy in Westeros is 36 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Where does it say life expectancy in Westeros is 36 years?I think she's using the old stats that we use for medieval societies. Although I'm not really sure that those are good since I don't know if they were adjusted for infant mortality, which could skew things terribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think she's using the old stats that we use for medieval societies. Although I'm not really sure that those are good since I don't know if they were adjusted for infant mortality, which could skew things terribly.Oh I knew the source, but as Westeros has quite a different medical know how with the Maesters, I really have to wonder why that number should be gospel. And as you say, I can't remember that number being adjusted for infant mortality either. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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