Cersei and Sexuality

[Lyanna Stark]

if that is what you want, go ahead. Never said you are bound to cheat on him. I merely said for such people, it is an easier thing to do. And as said, forgot to tell it's my opinion.

For such people as me, it's easier to cheat, you mean?

I'm not sure what exactly is too many for me, but twelve is definitely too much. I'll start at least at four, I'd say.

I'm curious, what these numbers are based on? This means Dany is ok, with two, or three if we count Hizdahr but she might end up with at least four is she marries again. Does that mean that Dany will probably become promiscuous in the future, since she will break the magic number barrier here? And if she marries again, and her husband dies, does that count towards becoming promiscuous?

It also makes almost every single male character in ASOIAF promiscuous in the extreme since they frequent brothels, apart from Ned, Hodor, Rhaegar and Varys. (Although Rhaegar cheated on his wife though.)

I think Taena should count because for example we wouldn't say that Renly didn't really have sex with Loras. Cersei couldn't penetrate her with a penis but I think homosexual sex is just as legitimate as heterosexual sex (not that the reverse was implied).

I agree, I think Taena should count, and Loras count for Renly.

[Lummel]

With regard to the OP I suppose we can fairly conclude that readers who have an opinion of people that diminishes with the number of sexual partners that they have will apply the same standard to the books.

I would agree that the comment above that Cersei's relationship with Kettleblack shows poor judgement - but than I wouldn't limit that to sex. The Kettleblacks are shown to be unreliable from ACOK taking money from Cersei and Tyrion and then we learn in ASOS that they were Littlefinger's men all along.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

For such people as me, it's easier to cheat, you mean?

I'm curious, what these numbers are based on? This means Dany is ok, with two, or three if we count Hizdahr but she might end up with at least four is she marries again. Does that mean that Dany will probably become promiscuous in the future, since she will break the magic number barrier here? And if she marries again, and her husband dies, does that count towards becoming promiscuous?

It also makes almost every single male character in ASOIAF promiscuous in the extreme since they frequent brothels, apart from Ned, Hodor, Rhaegar and Varys. (Although Rhaegar cheated on his wife though.)

I agree, I think Taena should count, and Loras count for Renly.

Daenerys was married to two of those men. If she marries again, that's the third. I don't mind her having sex with three different partners, as they were her husbands. Now, if she was screwing Daario and another one and just picked another one too, I'd say she's promiscuous. Cersei had sex with three or four different people in less than a year; her 17 year old cousin, two Kettleblacks (right?) and Taena. She counts for me as promiscuous, yes. Robert Baratheon as well. Rhaegar not really. Ned Stark definitely not, Jon being his or not. My opinion could be quite extreme, but what's the fault in having an extreme opinion, as long as I don't kill people for it? ;)

[The Frosted King]

Her indulgence of her sexuality is her right and choice.

Just as it is everyone elses right and choice to weigh that, and act accordingly.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

If you don't mind, I have a presentation to prepare now. Ciao!

PM me if there are some other pressing things you need to tell me. :P

[ARYa_Nym]

I agree, I think Taena should count, and Loras count for Renly.

Yeah, and the more I think about it the scene evoked to me that Cersei was trying to take Taena like a man would so it's still sex to me.

I got more of a sense of it showing Cersei's prior problems to being born a woman.

[Elder Sister]

If you don't mind, I have a presentation to prepare now. Ciao!

PM me if there are some other pressing things you need to tell me. :P

Good luck with your presentation! Please don't take the discussion in this thread personally; I enjoy debating the characters, and it's always worthwhile to consider another person's viewpoint. :)

Back to the topic, another poster brought up Robert. I would assume he would be judged much more harshly for his promiscuity considering he left babies over every hill and vale with poor women, yet it's seldom ever mentioned.

[Lummel]

...Back to the topic, another poster brought up Robert. I would assume he would be judged much more harshly for his promiscuity considering he left babies over every hill and vale with poor women, yet it's seldom ever mentioned.

Of course not! He's virile! Manly! A manly man!

Chases everybody who ever wore a skirt, laughs loudly and hits people with his big hammer!

[Mikkel]

Back to the topic, another poster brought up Robert. I would assume he would be judged much more harshly for his promiscuity considering he left babies over every hill and vale with poor women, yet it's seldom ever mentioned.

Say what? I think it's in every single topic about Robert that he was a whore-mongering, drunken sot (which he was).

[Melifeather]

Women frequently are targets of "slut-shaming". But, in Cersei's case, the incest is what grosses me out the most.

[Mr Stereo1]

Her sexual behaviour does play a part in my dislike of Cersei, mainly because it's so venal. She's a psychotic powerhungry murdress, which is more than enough for her to be a villian in my book, but the sex (incest particularly) that drops her from magnificently entertaining bitch to just crazy.

[Lummel]

Women frequently are targets of "slut-shaming". But, in Cersei's case, the incest is what grosses me out the most.

Hey! At least she's keeping it in the family...

Her sexual behaviour does play a part in my dislike of Cersei, mainly because it's so venal. She's a psychotic powerhungry murdress, which is more than enough for her to be a villian in my book, but the sex (incest particularly) that drops her from magnificently entertaining bitch to just crazy.

venal? She earns money from it?

A game of thrones - title of the first book does suggest that power hunger is a key theme...

[Cleighton the Pure]

I believe that in the books sexuality could have a major effect on the persons persona and actions. Although, with mine own opinion is the actions of Cersei in general. The way she carries herself is all about how she is a shapley women, alluring, beautiful etc. She executes this "forbidden love" of bein a Queen very well, but i think its all personal gain. I just really do not like her character at all,

Ill tell you something i found interesting. I started feeling myself think that i HATE Margarey Tyrell. Then i started thinking again and saying.. wait.... i dont hate her i only feel this way due to Cersei's POV. Margarey Tyrell is actually a good-kinded spirit. Sure she is ambitious but in a good way. She is the one at fault when Cersei immediately starts attacking her.

So, in conclusion. Cersei's sexual desires/ orientation is of her own, she does use it to her advantage...but really for her own needs. Look at Lancel or the Kettlebacks who are actuallly LF's agents.

[Lyanna Stark]

Ill tell you something i found interesting. I started feeling myself think that i HATE Margarey Tyrell. Then i started thinking again and saying.. wait.... i dont hate her i only feel this way due to Cersei's POV. Margarey Tyrell is actually a good-kinded spirit. Sure she is ambitious but in a good way. She is the one at fault when Cersei immediately starts attacking her.

Interestingly, I reached the opposite conclusion on Margaery Tyrell. Cersei is wrong in her reasons for suspecting Margaery, but she is right in that Margaery *should* be seen as suspect.

Margaery was in on the poisoning of Joffrey, very likely she put the poison in the chalice herself, coldly condemning Sansa (whom she pretended to befriend) and Tyrion (who had never done her any harm) to take the fall for it, which would very likely mean their deaths.

Dontos said to Sansa "The Tyrells are Lannisters with flowers" and he was 100% correct.

Cersei may suspect Margaery for trying to steal Tommen away from her, but what Margaery really did was murder Joffrey. The Tyrells engineered so Margaery became Queen, and they engineered the King she was going to be partnered with, too.

[ARYa_Nym]

I love Margaery unlike Cersei. She owes no one else loyalty. I like how the Tyrells stick together to the very end no matter what. I don't mind that they let others be the fall guy. It takes more suspicion off of them. They are all about self preservation and would never side with another over one of them.

It kind of reminds me of Boardwalk Empire Nucky vs. Jimmy. Jimmy killed his own blood and tried to side with Nucky. Nucky felt that his own blood is what mattered and killed Jimmy. I disliked both of them though and favor other characters such as the New York crew, Richard, and Chalky.

[Quiet Isle]

a

Cersei was madly in love with Jaime before, during and after her marriage and had no business being queen.

Really? where did you ever get the impression Cersei was madly in love with Jaime? i never thought so. And i don't see anything in the books to indicate it, nor in the HBO series. power over him, yes. Lust, yes, love? Seriously? She wanted to marry Rhaegar, but Aerys nixed that to hurt Tywin who was seen as more powerful. When Robert was victorious, Tywin engaged her to Robert. She wasn't unhappy about that either. But love for Jaime? just not there. Jaime loved HER, but heh, we're seeing what THAT got him. and of course, he certainly is FAR from in love with her now.

[Quiet Isle]

Welcome to the Death Camp of Tolerance.

Exactly what i was thinking.

[Elder Sister]

Exactly what i was thinking.

I don't think anyone is being intolerant in this thread. We're not nodding our heads in agreement with each other, but we're discussing an issue. Disagreement does not equal intolerance. :)

Having said that, I agree with you about Cersei and Jaime. I never saw evidence of Cersei loving anyone other than her children. I don't think she's capable of romantic love. Maybe she was at one time, but she uses the feelings she engenders in others to get what she wants. The only time we see her truly thinking of someone else and their well being first is with her children, and she occasionally uses them to get what she wants as well.

ETA - also agree with you about Margaery, although I do really like the actress playing her. But book Margaery is much more interesting, and you don't really know her motivation...she's a puzzle.

[Quiet Isle]

Her sexual behaviour does play a part in my dislike of Cersei, mainly because it's so venal. She's a psychotic powerhungry murdress, which is more than enough for her to be a villian in my book, but the sex (incest particularly) that drops her from magnificently entertaining bitch to just crazy.

See I don't see her originally as a villain. She was the daughter of a powerful man Tywin who rebelled against his own father's incredible weakness, as Tywin saw it. Cersei lost her mother at a young age, and her parental figure was only Tywin, who she desperately wanted to be like, but her female sex prevented her from achieving it as a man could in that time. She was frustrated by it. She didn't have Joanna to balance it for her. So she used what she had to get her way - her beauty and sexuality. Lots of women through history have done this (and are still probably doing it). Now I am not discounting that she is becoming paranoid, vicious, and dangerous. but to simply say that she is only your above description is in my opinion incorrect or at least one sided. GRRM has said NONE of his characters are monsters. They are complex human beings. Your own feelings towards her are valid, but she is more than that. and btw Lena heady is brilliant.

[SeanF]

Lena Heady's Cersei is slightly more sympathetic than the books' Cersei, and I prefer that.

Actually, Cersei could have ruled as Queen Regent for years, had she been prepared to select better counsellors and take their advice. Had she wanted to strengthen her position by taking a lover, she should have set out to seduce someone like Mace Tyrell, or Lord Redwyne, whose support would strengthen her position.