Fragile Bird Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 The argument that I am discussing is regarding whether a person would fail to vote because they saw a flyer giving the wrong date. My argument is that there is all kinds of information about the election being provided on TV, radio, in newspapers, on the internet, from frienda and neighbours, and maybe at work too.Was there information about applying for a driver's licence, residency cards, etc etc being discussed on TV, radio, in the newspapers, on the internet, by your friends and neighbours and at your workplace for one year leading up to a specific date? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 FB, you're awesome and all, I know. :Pbut please refer to Ser Greguh's post. There are times when he's way too acerbic for my taste. This isn't one of them.Sweetie, in a politics thread, we live to argue. :tantrum: :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Mitt Romney Refuses To Talk About FEMA After Hurricane Sandy Event "Gov are you going to eliminate FEMA?" a print pooler shouted, receiving no response.Wires reporters asked more questions about FEMA that were ignored.Romney kept coming over near pool to pick up more water. He ignored these questions:"Gov are you going to see some storm damage?""Gov has [New Jersey Gov.] Chris Christie invited you to come survey storm damage?""Gov you've been asked 14 times, why are you refusing to answer the question?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 My apologies to y'all if you are busy ripping me apart and haven't posted yet - 1.30 am and I need to go to sleep. :closedeyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.C. Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Sweetie, in a politics thread, we live to argue. :tantrum: :lmao:Well by the standards of this thread, you're a sweet pea, as ES would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Lord Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 My apologies to y'all if you are busy ripping me apart and haven't posted yet - 1.30 am and I need to go to sleep. :closedeyes:Your position boils down to "It doesn't matter that the government document was wrong, because someone else will correct the people." I am not comfortable just giving a pass to government agencies for sending out incorrect information. Especially not when it's multiple times and in a place with officials negatively interacting with Latino population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Your position boils down to "It doesn't matter that the government document was wrong, because someone else will correct the people." I am not comfortable just giving a pass to government agencies for sending out incorrect information. Especially not when it's multiple times and in a place with officials negatively interacting with Latino population.It also relies on believing the person in question will actually bother to question the government document.Which is just a fucking stupid assumption because why would you think the government is lying to you about when the election is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimlessgun Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Was there information about applying for a driver's licence, residency cards, etc etc being discussed on TV, radio, in the newspapers, on the internet, by your friends and neighbours and at your workplace for one year leading up to a specific date? I don't think so.I watch a non-trivial amount of election coverage on CNN, BBC and the like.Not a single instance jumps out in my memory of someone mentioning the election date in this coverage. I'm sure it's been referenced in passing a couple times, but this is the kind of information that is assumed to already be known.If I had a govt. document with the date vs. some hazily remembered references to the date from the news, I'd go with the govt. document.As for being informed by other people, the "assume you already know the date" thing comes into play. And you can't assume that everyone is even going to interact much with people at all leading up the election (people with depression, crazy cat ladies etc, they have a right to vote too!). And if they do interact with other human beings, no guarantee that the exact election date will come up.So I doubt your assertion that it isn't effective enough to be worth the backlash (though of course I'm not sure at what level of effectiveness that equilibrium point might lie :) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 The argument that I am discussing is regarding whether a person would fail to vote because they saw a flyer giving the wrong date. My argument is that there is all kinds of information about the election being provided on TV, radio, in newspapers, on the internet, from frienda and neighbours, and maybe at work too.I actually agree with this, that sending the wrong day out is a stupid way to try and steal an election. It doesn't make it less an attempt to steal an election though. And the other things I hear about - deliberately creating long lines, misleading people about documentation, throwing away their registrations, saying that there will be legal reprecussions for them if they mess up in crossing one the myriad obstacles that have been set up for them...That sounds effective as well as heinous, and whoevers doing it should be locked up for decades, as far as i'm concerned. Not some activist or whathaveyou - the party. Honest to god, i'm pretty sure if this kind of stuff was happening here, that would be more than enough to get that organization in front of court and it might be simply declared illegal for them to participate in the elections. Ie, I think the Republican party would be illegal here, thus joining the company of terrorists and fascists.More to the point, that there's a sizeable group of people willing to vote for these racist, fascist clowns is messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isalie Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yeah, I'd say Christie has decided that Romney is toast and is trying to set himself up as the reasonable, moderate guy for 2016; the guy who wasn't willing to play politics after a major storm.Booo! I thought it was sweet, stop making politics of a disaster! ;) Damn you cynics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 More to the point, that there's a sizeable group of people willing to vote for these racist, fascist clowns is messed up.+ 10^10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Will Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 The argument that I am discussing is regarding whether a person would fail to vote because they saw a flyer giving the wrong date. My argument is that there is all kinds of information about the election being provided on TV, radio, in newspapers, on the internet, from frienda and neighbours, and maybe at work too.Was there information about applying for a driver's licence, residency cards, etc etc being discussed on TV, radio, in the newspapers, on the internet, by your friends and neighbours and at your workplace for one year leading up to a specific date? I don't think so.You began your argument with a paragraph detailing how you assume US citizen's have a base level of English and therefore wouldn't rely on information printed in their own language. My primary argument is that this is not the case. Even though I spoke a base level of Japanese I deliberately sought out information in English because it was easier to understand. The more important the information was the more emphasis I placed on getting it in English since I don't want to make a mistake.As for other sources of information existing. Certainly they do, and certainly they counteract the effectiveness of the election rigging attempt somewhat. But I can only assume that the people saying this would be an ineffective way to steal an election are people who are good with dates and details. I always miss significant, publicly known and spoken about events, and I can only assume from the responses on this thread that others do the same. People speaking about a date is not enough to make me aware of it. I don't usually miss elections because I make a point of sourcing the date from some reliable, official source. Say, for instance, a flier.Beyond that:I actually agree with this, that sending the wrong day out is a stupid way to try and steal an election. It doesn't make it less an attempt to steal an election though. And the other things I hear about - deliberately creating long lines, misleading people about documentation, throwing away their registrations, saying that there will be legal reprecussions for them if they mess up in crossing one the myriad obstacles that have been set up for them...That sounds effective as well as heinous, and whoevers doing it should be locked up for decades, as far as i'm concerned. Not some activist or whathaveyou - the party. Honest to god, i'm pretty sure if this kind of stuff was happening here, that would be more than enough to get that organization in front of court and it might be simply declared illegal for them to participate in the elections. Ie, I think the Republican party would be illegal here, thus joining the company of terrorists and fascists.More to the point, that there's a sizeable group of people willing to vote for these racist, fascist clowns is messed up.Absolutely. I don't know for certain, but I believe that anyone trying this crap in Australia would be roasted alive, probably by their own party. I suspect I'll never find out though because elections here are conducted by an independent, non-partisan organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Absolutely. I don't know for certain, but I believe that anyone trying this crap in Australia would be roasted alive, probably by their own party. I suspect I'll never find out though because elections here are conducted by an independent, non-partisan organisation.Handing out fake how-to-vote cards and lying about other parties preference deals is about as rough as it gets.Then there were these geniuses - caught through a tipoff from their own branch, and probably doomed the PM they were 'helping'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 In other news: Paul Ryan is still a twit.In Hudson, the packing was proceeding too quickly, and the supporters wearing red “Team Wisconsin” t-shirts were given the order to slow down and then to stop to be sure there were still goods to be packed when Ryan entered.One by one the boxes were filled and loaded into a waiting U-Haul, and then they stopped to wait for the candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 CBS/NYT has put out the results what will probably be their final poll before the election. Spoiler: They're good numbers, all things considered.Ohio: Obama 50 Romney 45 (25% have already voted and among them its Obama 60 Romney 34)Virginia: Obama 49 Romney 47 (Virginia does not have a significant amount of early voting)Florida: Obama 48 Romney 47 (20% have already voted and among them its Obama 50 Romney 44)In clear sign of how bad its gotten, Romney is campaigning all day today in Florida; a state Republicans claimed they had locked up weeks ago. And the optics of that are terrible since Obama will be spending the day touring the Sandy damage in New Jersey with Christie.ETA:Booo! I thought it was sweet, stop making politics of a disaster! ;) Damn you cynics!That's just how I roll. Spend any amount of time living in DC and its impossible not to become almost dead inside (at least when it comes to people; still a big fan of baby animals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I would hope people know when the election is, but many people might not. I know when it is, but I pay attention to politics and not that many people do that.If you can't trust the government document with the wrong date on it, why would you trust the government document with the right one on it? And why are we even having this fucking conversation? You should be able to trust the people who run elections to give accurate information about elections, full stop. And as Datepalm said, this is only one of many methods of voter suppression being employed by the Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I get that some people may be dumb enough to be fooled by the flyers. But criminy, it was rammed through our heads in school that the election is always the first Tuesday of November. If someone sees a flyer that says to vote on Thursday and they fall for it, they're a victim of two things: their own stupidity and a group trying to take advantage of their own stupidity. It's not cool, it's not right, but for fuck sake, this is one of the few things everyone who lives in this country should be educated on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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