NFL 2012 Week 12: Coaches still don't know the rules

[Mexal]

Carry on...

Griffin is the ORoTY, but Luck will probably win it if the Colts make the playoffs.

If his name was anyone but Luck, he wouldn't. Last year Newton won the OROTY yet it was Dalton that lead his team to the playoffs. But because his last name is Luck and his hype was greater than anyone else in the last decade, you're probably right. I will say though that if the Giants lose on Sunday night, the Skins are only a game out of first in the NFC East.

[Maithanet]

If his name was anyone but Luck, he wouldn't. Last year Newton won the OROTY yet it was Dalton that lead his team to the playoffs. But because his last name is Luck and his hype was greater than anyone else in the last decade, you're probably right. I will say though that if the Giants lose on Sunday night, the Skins are only a game out of first in the NFC East.

Keep in mind that this Thanksgiving game was a colossal advertisement for Griffin winning Rookie of they Year. He absolutely light it up, while simultaneously under intense pressure. AND at the same time, the defense was as terrible as usual, letting Dallas back in the game even after getting a 25 point lead.

What was Luck's biggest, nationally televised game of the season? The Pats game last week. 2 tds, 3 ints and badly outplayed by one of the Old Guard quarterbacks.

Griffin has a really really big media profile, so it's not like Luck is preordained to win this thing (although he would most years). Griffin is more personable and more exciting than Luck. And his stats are so much better. Incomparably better.

RGIII: 16 tds, 4 ints, 104 passer rating, 8.2 yards/attempt. 640 yards rushing, 6 tds.

Luck (with one fewer game): 12 tds, 12 ints, 77 passer rating, 7.2 yards/attempt. 163 yards rushing, 5 tds

I'm not knocking Luck, he's having a strong rookie season, and he will only get better. But this isn't "who is more likely to be a hall of famer" (which is very debateable), it is Rookie of the Year, which barring RGIII getting injured, is no longer in doubt.

[Fez]

Regarding the thread title, I saw on espn that the competition committee is planning to review the rule now. Which is good, it is a silly thing.

[Mexal]

Regarding the thread title, I saw on espn that the competition committee is planning to review the rule now. Which is good, it is a silly thing.

It's a horrible rule but the coaches should know it. Schwartz has no one to blame but himself. That being said, it was a terrible call on the field.

[Independent George]

It's a horrible rule but the coaches should know it. Schwartz has no one to blame but himself. That being said, it was a terrible call on the field.

I agree, but I guarantee that every coach in the league knows the rule now. Except maybe Andy Reid; I'm pretty sure he'd still screw it up, but not necessarily because he didn't know the rule.

I'm ok with the 15-yard penalty (though I think it should be 5), but the fact that the play doesn't get reviewed is just plain dumb.

[Maithanet]

I'm ok with the 15-yard penalty (though I think it should be 5), but the fact that the play doesn't get reviewed is just plain dumb.

I don't see why it needs to be 15 at all, 5 is plenty. If there is any sort of penalty, this sort of thing will happen very rarely, and it's not like this is dangerous or something. The Lions were punished far far worse than their infraction warranted.

[Bronn Stone]

I think the penalty should be a five yard delay of game and a timeout. Fifteen for unsportsmanlike if the team does not have a timeout and should then have doubly know they could not challenge.

Edited to add: I would not be shocked if this is not dealt with in the very near future - as in before the end of the month. The NFL can change rules very quickly when there is a consensus and I think one can be found here in short order.

What was Luck's biggest, nationally televised game of the season? The Pats game last week. 2 tds, 3 ints and badly outplayed by one of the Old Guard quarterbacks.

That game was not televised in my area.

[BLU-RAY]

Yeah. The truly bomkers thing is that this was the SECOND time that penalty got called this week- Mike Smiyh on the Falcons had the same thing happen trying to challenge a turnover play this weekend vs 'Zona.

[Sivin]

That game was not televised in my area.

It was horrible.

[wolverine]

What I am curious about with the replay rule: If Kubiak knew it wasn't a TD could he throw the red flag and nullify review?

[Rockroi]

If Kubiak knew it wasn't a TD could he throw the red flag and nullify review?

The short answer is "no" and they actually did a piece on this on the NFL network on whether or not a coach who knows that they are the beneficiary of a terrible call can challenge before a review, get a penalty, but keep the play from being reviewed. Basically, a coach cannot challenge a play if there is no benefit for that coach should the play be reversed. I also believe- but I do not know -that this scenario is actually spelled out in the rule- the rule says that its basically a delay-of-game penalty if you challenge an unchallengeable play or a play that is auto-reviewed. That ONLY applies to the coach that WOULD want the play reversed; the other team would just have to pick up its red flag (and may get a delay-of-game penalty).

In no way does any of that make sense. I find what happened to the Lions to be terrible. I think Schwartz did something that anyone would do- he saw clear proof that his team was wronged and he reacted.... why is that wrong?

[Lord O' Bones]

Random thought: Would anyone be stunned to see this year's SB-winning QB to be...Collin Kaepernick? I wouldn't. SF is a contender w/ just about any serviceable QB, and Harbaugh apparently thinks CK is better than Alex Smith. I would not be stunned to see them pull it off.

I wouldn't. I'd be slightly surprised that it wasn't Schaub. I'd be sad that it wasn't Smith or Cutler, but I would not at all be stunned if it were CK.

[Bronn Stone]

Random thought: Would anyone be stunned to see this year's SB-winning QB to be...Collin Kaepernick? I wouldn't. SF is a contender w/ just about any serviceable QB, and Harbaugh apparently thinks CK is better than Alex Smith. I would not be stunned to see them pull it off.

No more surprising than Maatt Schaub, Toom Brady, Aarron Rodgers or Peyyton Manning. There aren't any huge favorites right now.

[Kalbear]

Making fun of triskie on player names when rockroi is RIGHT THERE seems just mean.

[Bronn Stone]

I only pointed it out because he nailed Kaepernick. Colin was the two-foot put after that.

[Jaime L]

Possible regimes to be blown up after this year?

NYJ and Philadelphia seem quite likely to me. J'Ville too.

I somehow believe Rex gets one more year. I get the sense Woody Johnson still really likes Rex. He likes his outsized personality, his early success and how he lets them compete for headlines with the Giants. Revis and Holmes getting injured gives him an excuse for why this didn't work. Tannenbaum though has to go.

The Andy Reid era though is over in Philly. And the question is what the new coach does with the QB position. It'll be a regime with no loyalty to Foles so unless he looks much better down the stretch could see them going in a different direction. And the increasingly fragile Vick is a conundrum that seems only potentially fixable by Chip Kelly getting the job.

Dallas seems like a possibility w/ Garrett, but I think they're wedded to TR at QB for a while..

I think the Thanksgiving day game demonstrates that you can't reasonably expect to find someone better than Romo if you want to win now. QBs that good just aren't out there either as FAs or draft picks.

It's a tough spot because it hasn't worked as of late. Something always breaks down at the worst possible time but to put that all on Romo is projecting. And what are the better options? I don't think anyone from this draft class is going to step in and star in year one. I don't see a Matt Schaub like backup on someone's roster that you can trade for. Even if there was, these are all lottery tickets with an expected value way less than what Romo is guaranteed to provide. And is Schaub even a better QB than Romo? Not sure I'd even agree with that.

So my guess is they draft a QB of the future this year and hope they end up with a Favre/Rodgers situation a couple years down the line. But Romo is still playing at a high enough level that you stick with him and try to fix all the other areas of greater need around him (O-line, Dez's head, Jerry Jones' permissive culture, figuring out when to close to the roof etc.)

[Maithanet]

I think the Thanksgiving day game demonstrates that you can't reasonably expect to find someone better than Romo if you want to win now. QBs that good just aren't out there either as FAs or draft picks.

So my guess is they draft a QB of the future this year and hope they end up with a Favre/Rodgers situation a couple years down the line. But Romo is still playing at a high enough level that you stick with him and try to fix all the other areas of greater need around him (O-line, Dez's head, Jerry Jones' permissive culture, figuring out when to close to the roof etc.)

I agree that the Cowboys are probably going to start grooming a quarterback to replace Romo, but that will be a multiyear process while Romo is still the guy. That last game was a great example of everything that makes Romo such a divisive figure. He was awful in that first half. There wasn't much pass rush, and yet he still threw for 2 ints and less than a hundred yards against a horrible secondary. Then, once the game was all but out of reach, he starts making some plays like he can, but it proves to be too late. If he could play like he did in the second half of that game all of the time, he would be in the Brees/Brady/Rodgers conversations. If he played like he did the first half, he would be out of the league very very soon. But instead he does both, and fluctuates between great and terrible seemingly at random.

[Jaime L]

I agree that the Cowboys are probably going to start grooming a quarterback to replace Romo, but that will be a multiyear process while Romo is still the guy. That last game was a great example of everything that makes Romo such a divisive figure. He was awful in that first half. There wasn't much pass rush, and yet he still threw for 2 ints and less than a hundred yards against a horrible secondary. Then, once the game was all but out of reach, he starts making some plays like he can, but it proves to be too late. If he could play like he did in the second half of that game all of the time, he would be in the Brees/Brady/Rodgers conversations. If he played like he did the first half, he would be out of the league very very soon. But instead he does both, and fluctuates between great and terrible seemingly at random.

I have two theories about was we saw yesterday.

1) Haslett's smoke-and-mirror defense can trip up good QBs for a little while but eventually they start figuring out and shredding our painfully slow safeties and LBs. The only QB who didn't eventually figure it out was Nick Foles. I think Haslett knows this and that's why he was smart during the final drive to put 6-7 Redskins defenders on the line of scrimmage, showing blitz, during every passing down of the final drive. Yes, he knows his guys might be out of position when they have to drop back into coverage but he knew the confusion that resulted from not knowing which guys were coming and which guys weren't was the only way to generate a pass rush. If he just sat back in blanket zones/man-to-man eventually Romo was going to find the open man because the pass rush wasn't getting there otherwise.

2) With a running game as bad as the Cowboys they actively hurt themselves in the first half by giving up downs for running plays. Just like outs are the most precious commodity in baseball from a sabermetric standpoint (and therefore the worst thing you can do is bunt or sacrifice a guy and give up an out just to advance a base runner), the worst thing a bad running team can do is give up a down for a running play that will not get a first down. It's not a perfect analogy as running plays "keep defenses honest" and can make the passing game more effective. But in the Cowboys case they were a better (and scarier) team last night just letting Romo wing it all second half long. And I think it was clear he definitely got into rhythm as a result in a way a QB doesn't with run-run-pass or run-pass-Tebow.

Also when will FO do an analysis of Tony Romo's DVOA on bad/botched shotgun snaps vs. other QBs in football? I feel like his numbers would be 100x better than any other QB in football. It's one of the oddest little skills he's great at.

[Maithanet]

Also when will FO do an analysis of Tony Romo's DVOA on bad/botched shotgun snaps vs. other QBs in football? I feel like his numbers would be 100x better than any other QB in football. It's one of the oddest little skills he's great at.

Does this happen against other teams or just us? Can any of the cowboys fans weigh in on this? Because it seems to happen about once a season against the Skins where this results in a big play.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

Watching Steve Gregory light up the Jets yesterday was weird for me. When I was thirteen years old we were on the same baseball team. In fact in my last game behind the plate (my arm was terrible) he was the pitcher. He had one hell of an arm. I thought for sure he was going to wind up in the majors. I'm glad he is doing well in the NFL.