[Sample] Arianne I

[What a Flayed Man Holds]

I don't think it's a mistake on Arianne's part. She was leaving almost immediately, and her job isn't to deal with dragons (if they ever come); that's for Quentyn and her father right now.

And really, just what can you learn from reading some random book about the history of the Dornish resistance to Aegon and his sisters? I'm pretty sure that the Dornish tactics used are basically enshrined by the singers, and everyone more or less knows the basics.

True, researching dragon evasion was outside of the scope of her mission. And the tactics of the Dornish resistance to Aegon is probably pretty common knowledge to the Dornish [even if the general ASOIAF readership didn't know much about it until the World of Ice and Fire sample revealed last fall]. But that story ends with the Dornish unkilled, unburnt, and uneaten; you're right that researching dragonlore wasn't her purpose at the time, but it surprised me that she didn't take the opportunity to read them, or at least have Feathers or one of her knights read them, especially since reliable knowledge about dragon behavior is rare and the window to obtain it was slim.

[Bastard of Boston]

Arianne could simply be projecting onto Dany. In her chapter, she seemingly felt some type of connection to Dany's story. If the impression is she doesn't trust Dany, it could be because she has problems trusting herself at this point. Arianne appears to be at odds with her own motivations...love for family vs. her own ambitions. She has some guilt. I'm sure it's affecting her view of Dany, who has a similar story.

Arianne, in a lot of ways, reminds me of Sansa. Sansa is one of the characters who has had a very satisfying character arc up to now. She's hard to like in the beginning, and watching her journey over the course of the various novels has been a lot of work, but also very rewarding. Nobody likes a character who just "gets it" right from the jump.

So, while Arianne appears to be prone to her prior MO, she's cognizant of her character flaws, so she's not a total narcissist. The issue is whether she'll completely "get it" before it's too late.

[Lord Varys]

It's logical that Arianne would take Viserys's side over Dany's. She was betrothed to him, and that was a revelation to her when she learned about it not so long ago. Her status completely changed. First she considered herself to be the unwanted daughter of her father, now she learns that she was supposed to marry the rightful King of Westeros. And realizing that Quentyn is now supposed to play her part vexes her a little. This does not mean that she wants her brother to fail. But she would also like Aegon to be the real deal.

After all, this could enable her to marry her Targaryen prince.

But I wonder, what is her mission exactly? Find out whether Dany, Quentyn, and the dragons are with Connington? One should assume that Connington would have told Prince Doran if that was the case. In fact, they would have all gone to Dorne if they had Quentyn with them, I think.

So what is Arianne supposed to do when she meet Connington and Aegon? Demand proof that they are who they are supposed to be? Connington is the real deal, she will realize that. Will that be enough for her to believe Aegon is real as well? How can Connington hope to convince her? And what kind of evidence is she going to demand in exchange for the spears of Dorne?

[Lady KotLT]

Gads! I had finally weened myself away from ASoIaF for awhile which made the wait more bearable and now there is a new chapter!!! My brain cannot take it. ME WANT NEW BOOK NOW!

Now that is out of the way. The girl who had the dream of the dancing dragons (cannot remember her name) does that mean she has dragon blood since she dreams of them?

It was mentioned in earlier posts that because of her red hair (which is uncommon in Dorne) that she might be descended from the first men... and she was having a greendream. But she could have some dragon-blood!!!

[Faint]

At best, her thinking is slowly moving her to being ready to try and betroth Aegon herself if it turns out Quentyn fails.

I think it important to keep in mind that Arianne is already predisposed to view Daenerys in a certain way that will only be helped on when she finds out about Quentyn’s fate. The groundwork is certainly there for her to regard Daenerys unfavorably and then pass on that view to Aegon who, as Tyrion has already demonstrated, is quite impressionable. I don’t even entirely fault Arianne for her mindset; it’s very reasonable under the circumstances. But, at the same time, I can see how this will all prove disastrous for her and for Dorne in the future, and how the author is preparing us for that particular storyline with these early Arianne chapters.

[NotSoSilentSister]

I think she's supposed to sort out whether Aegon has already locked in Dany's support for his campaign. If JC could tell her that they are already in talks with Dany and that there's a timeline in place for her eventual arrival in Westeros with dragons to support the Targ cause, Doran would probably sleep a lot easier about throwing in his towel with Aegon.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

I don't get all the fuss about Arianne rejecting to read in the books about dragons. What is she supposed to do after a day of travel? They leave the next morning so whatever she could read could mean anything or nothing. There should be enough people around in Dorne with knowledge like that. And they have probably talked about that topic back with Doran when discussing Quentyn's quest and so on. Now she could have talked with Lady Toland on the topic and that's what probably was meant with "come see our books" thing. But again, not sure if that could change much.

We readers see this as a plot point, because it's in the chapters, but we do not see all the other days that have passed since we last saw her. We do not see what she's discussed already on dragons with he father, some maesters and other people and besides that's not her task. Changes are there are other competent people in Dorne and sometimes it's best to focus on her present task which has nothing much to do with dragons (who are still in Meeren).

[Faint]

I don't get all the fuss about Arianne rejecting to read in the books about dragons . . .

I think the symbolism is crucial here. This is the second time, following when she was locked up in the tower by her father, that Arianne has failed to educate herself about dragons. I think this continuing pattern of keeping herself ignorant regarding the subject is intentional on the part of the author.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

Doran is nothing, if not shrewd and cautious. He needs a sense of whether Aegon is indeed legit, a sense of Connington's plans regarding Dany, and a sense of the strength and potential of their forces. I'm sure he has armed Arianne w/ coded questions designed to discern the aforementioned.

The question is whether Arianne will exceed Doran's instructions, much like Oberyn did. She does not want to fail Doran, but she is eager to come into her. She is considering a seduction of Jon, meaning she/ Doran thinks that he is one actually running the invasion. Connington's proclivity likely means he is ill equipped to take advantage of Arianne's weakness for bad boys, but he is shrewd enough to take advantage of her other weakness (overeagerness). I can see Connington seducing her with talk of vengeance and conquest, instead of sexually.

A seduction of Aegon is possible, as he is young and inexperienced like Ser Arys. However, Aegon seems to be emerging into the type of jerk that Arianne falls for. A Combination of Aegon seducing her body and Connington seducing her mind may lead Arianne giving the "Dragon" call instead of the "War" call.

I think Doran made a mistake by sending her. He should have invited Aegon and Connington to Dorne or he should have dispatched a more seasoned lord to fell things out. I know Doran wants to believe in her, but she simply is not ready to lead. Maybe Doran has thought of this and Ser Daemon has secret instructions.

[ckal]

Great chapter.

Very interested in the Darkstar situation. So...Obara, Swann, AND Hotah are after him now? I don't quite know about this...it seems like over kill unless Darkstar is truly a bad ass. Something is questionable there though.

More mentions of krakens are really interesting as well.

[ckal]

Surprised with the sentiment that thinks Darkstar will slay Areo Hotah. One of the characters dying in their own POV? It has never been done before unless one wants to include Catelyn. In any case, Darkstar is obviously quite important now that he has a POV dispatched to document his story. Although, to be honest, I haven’t the slightest idea how he connects to the bigger picture.

Didn't Quentyn die in his own POV? You can add Jon Snow, depending on what you believe. I feel like there has been another, but maybe not.

[Aly]

I don't get all the fuss about Arianne rejecting to read in the books about dragons. What is she supposed to do after a day of travel? They leave the next morning so whatever she could read could mean anything or nothing. There should be enough people around in Dorne with knowledge like that. And they have probably talked about that topic back with Doran when discussing Quentyn's quest and so on. Now she could have talked with Lady Toland on the topic and that's what probably was meant with "come see our books" thing. But again, not sure if that could change much.

We readers see this as a plot point, because it's in the chapters, but we do not see all the other days that have passed since we last saw her. We do not see what she's discussed already on dragons with he father, some maesters and other people and besides that's not her task. Changes are there are other competent people in Dorne and sometimes it's best to focus on her present task which has nothing much to do with dragons (who are still in Meeren).

:agree: I really don't see the big deal with Arianne not reading the books, the stories would have to have been told in Dorne before, especially among the nobles. Besides, it's not like they were able to defeat the dragons, they simply (or not-so simply) evaded them.

On the issue of Darkstar...I have always felt that there was more to that story, like he was the spy for Dorian. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall anyone being sent after him initially, if at all. I don't think that they are in search of him, I think it's a ploy to get rid of Arys Oakheart, especially since Areo Hotah has already seen himself doing battle with him.

[Razha]

Its funny how protective people are of their favorite characters and how critical of those who are not their favourites

Arianne might end up being much better person than Danny

not a better player though....

her alliance with Aegon is quite obvious now but there is an interesting twist:

how exactly Aegon/Danny confrontation will start? at this moment Aegon and co have no anti-Danny feelings - actually they expect her to marry him andsupport him, it is actually Arianne who might want to turn Aegon against Danny because of her ambition to become a queen or to avenge her brother, anyway...

and I have to mention it - its ridiculous how much hate Aegon gets and how many people accuse him of being a dushe adn a jerk just for being rude on one paricular occasion to Tyrion (we like tyrion but for Aegon - who is he? a guy who killed own father? a member of a family that had his grandfather killed, his sister murdered, his mother raped and murdered...I think given all that Aegon real or fake was exeptionally tolerant to Tyrion...)

+ one more argument of Aegon not being a bad guy - there is a high probability he is going to die by the end of next book, probably thanks to Danny - so I am sure in a typical GRRM manner we will understand Dannys reasoning but we will fill sorry for Aegon and co.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

NotSoSilentSister and Ran, you both make some very good points regarding Daemon...he's not like Darkstar, he can be trusted. So even though Arianne thinks she shouldn't get with him, her later ignoring that thought and trying to sleep with him doesn't bring the same danger to her and Dorne as lusting after Darkstar did. So I concede that her trying to have a fling with him is not much of a sign that she has not changed from the Arianne we saw in AFFC.

I would also like to point out that I was never arguing that Arianne (or any woman/man) needed to give up sex completely to be a good ruler/focused on their responsibilities. I was criticizing the characters, male and female, who have lusted after a certain type of person (Daario, Darkstar, Shae, Cersei), and then paid dearly for it. In hindsight, I should not have lumped Daemon in with that group and then took Arianne's going after him as a sign she hadn't learned her lesson from Darkstar.

I agree, but you can also lump in rob and jeyne and even robert and his whores undermined him. The reason Daario gets brought up is that the fall out hasn't happened yet. There's a tendency to come off as saying Dany or Arianne shouldn't enjoy sex when you analyze their relationships especially given contemporary moral standards, but the reality in Martin's world is that when you're a ruler, sex is rarely just sex

My guess is that Daemon is supposed to represent that Arianne has learned (i mean why even put it in), but hasn't learned enough yet. However, as many posters pointed out sex with him doesn't seem like that big a deal and he seems like a pretty cool/honorable dude

[Faint]

Didn't Quentyn die in his own POV? You can add Jon Snow, depending on what you believe. I feel like there has been another, but maybe not.

No, he didn't, actually. He died later and we read about it from Barristan Selmy.

[Southron_Ambitions]

Dorne is so boring. Quentyn, Hotah, Arianne...awful, uninteresting characters. Doran is an idiot too. They guy sits around for decades scheming and never does anything.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Arianne's view on Dany doesnt mean outright shes against Dany. Its providing the reader a different perspective on Dany's actions. Something that seemed to be oddly missing from Dany's arc. Sure, it may foreshadow Arianne and by extension, Dorne's opinions of Dany later on. But really, i find it pretty realistic for someone to get that information and side eye it a bit.

[The BlackBear]

Dorne is so boring. Quentyn, Hotah, Arianne...awful, uninteresting characters. Doran is an idiot too. They guy sits around for decades scheming and never does anything.

Dorne takes a long time to do anything because they have very little power.

[Razha]

Dorne is so boring. Quentyn, Hotah, Arianne...awful, uninteresting characters. Doran is an idiot too. They guy sits around for decades scheming and never does anything.

Doran, Quentyn, Hotah are quite decent people - nothing wrong with that

Both Quent and Arianna are very human in their weaknesses - and thats very good

And there is nothing idiotic about Doran being cautious- an idiot would start war and start poisoning people around, ending up with entire Dorn destroyed...

Ever since demise of Targariens up until very lately Dorn was hardly in a position to fight with the Iron throne

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

"I will lead it!" His bells rang merrily. "We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh."

March = The 'Stepstones' being raided

seahorses = Aurane Waters

Into the Sea and out again = hit and run tactics of pirates

Mermaids = Mermaids Palace island at the Arbor. The chapter talked about the Redwynes who's seat is the Arbor. The Iron Born took the island in AFFC.