You Are How You Look (Appearances II)

[MisterOJ]

I am just... baffled by the comfort issue. I can't speak to women's clothing, like I said, but menswear is not uncomfortable. The only thing I can see the comfort argument for is a necktie. I've gotten over it, but I hated it when I was 12. (I'm no longer 12 and they don't bother me anymore.) So leave the necktie out and I don't really get what the issue is. If wearing anything less casual than jeans is uncomfortable, it's because your clothes don't fit, and if your jeans fit as badly as those clothes they'd be uncomfortable too.

Honestly, it's not so much a physical thing. It's mostly mental. I will fully admit to that. My parents dressed me up for all kinds of crazy ass events when I was a kid. Church, plays, performances, etc. Always made a big deal over making sure I looked just right.

I fucking hated it. But, I had to do it because I was a kid, ya know? Now I'm an adult and I can make those choices for myself. And I choose not to in most situations. I don't think that makes me a bad person, although some folks clearly disagree.

[Relic]

I won't say a word if you and I go out to Avery Fisher to see something, and I'm wearing a cute dress and you're wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

I wouldn't. I'd probably wear thin cords and a button down. Or my crispist levis. However, i would not judge you id instead of a cute dress you wore...tights and a sweater.

[Mya Stone]

I wouldn't. I'd probably wear thin cords and a button down. Or my crispist levis. However, i would not judge you id instead of a cute dress you wore...tights and a sweater.

Perv.

[Relic]

She would prefer if you showed up in assless chaps, Michael.

For old times sake, and all that.

aint no one wanna see that. :spank:

[Inigima]

You understand that this is a subjective opinion, right? Especially when it comes to shoes.

My question is...why the hell do you care what someone else is wearing?

We've covered this ground. I think it's rude and bespeaks a lack of respect, which I think this thread is confirming.

As for your other comment, no, it isn't. Your clothing should be comfortable. Even if it's a suit or a tuxedo. If it isn't comfortable, it doesn't fit you. Shoes are no exception. You should buy shoes carefully and confirm that they fit.

[Tears of Lys]

I wouldn't. I'd probably wear thin cords and a button down. Or my crispist levis. However, i would not judge you id instead of a cute dress you wore...tights and a sweater.

Perv.

Damn. This was your opportunity, Mya, to insist he wear the assless chaps. :leer:

ETA: Damn cross-posting all to hell.

[Xray the Enforcer]

aint no one wanna to see that. :spank:

We have a lot of evidence to the contrary, man.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Your avoidance of the question is impressive. You accept that a suit is appropriate interview attire because you understand that it will be taken as disrespectful to do otherwise. Why, then, are you so averse to the idea that there is such a thing as appropriate attire elsewhere?

Well, artfully avoiding questions is part of what I do. The only reason I wear a suit to interviews is because I would never get the jobs I'm applying for if I didn't. If it didn't impact my likelihood of getting hired - I wouldn't. If I could go to Court and not wear a suit and not have it materially and adversely impact my client - I wouldn't!

[Relic]

We have a lot of evidence to the contrary, man.

I might do it just to piss Ini off.

[Prince Alexander]

I did a light poll on my Facebook of my musician friends, and even they think it's okay to wear jeans as long as you have a blazer or a sport coat over it. Those jeans can't be ripped or faded or in bad condition, however. I do think there's a place for dressy jeans. There are so many beautiful menswear looks out right now that are excellently tailored which include jeans. If you have the cool to pull that look off at the opera, more power to you.

Thank you. Suits are hot and fashionable but a bit lazy.

[Minaku]

not they're not but one doesn't preclude the other either.

No you're a musician and should respect anyone who wants to hear you regardless of their dress rather than using it as an opportunity to be seen at some high-society function.

I'm a musician, and I welcome anyone who would like to hear me, which is why I have performed at smaller venues, in churches, in very casual recital halls in piano showrooms, in my own home, and online. You can wear what you like to any of those occasions. I've had people show up to recitals in cargo shorts, t-shirts, and sunglasses on their heads. Whatever. What I am speaking of is incredibly specific, and you seem to be ignoring that part.

As for the respect anyone who wants to hear me? No. No, I don't have to. I can be selective about whom I play for, where I play, and when I play. I am free to turn down anyone who comes to see me, because that's the right of the artist. I just have not been forced to do so yet because most people don't treat me as if I'm some sort of servant.

I actually quit playing at weddings because as a wedding musician, you aren't any better than the help, and I actively disliked being treated that way. Artist's integrity. No weddings unless they're for close friends and family.

I wouldn't. I'd probably wear thin cords and a button down. Or my crispist levis. However, i would not judge you id instead of a cute dress you wore...tights and a sweater.

But Relic, that's because you've creeped on me for years. And I'd accessorize the shit out of those tights and a sweater.

[Mya Stone]

Damn. This was your opportunity, Mya, to insist he wear the assless chaps. :leer:

ETA: Damn cross-posting all to hell.

Eh, I read "thinnest cords" to mean "completely worn down to threads on the ass" meaning "assless cords." :P

[Jaime L]

I don't consider weddings and funerals to be recreation/entertainment. So I think they fall into a different category with regard to appropriate attire.

But why is it for you to decide what's appropriate and not the venue?

I mean when I willingly choose to go to someone else's place I abide by their expectations of what's appropriate. If I'm at someone's house and they want me to take my shoes off, I take my shoes off. If I'm at fancy restaurant where jacket is required, I wear a jacket. If I'm playing tennis at one of the old school places that expects me to wear all white, I wear all white.

I don't question the logic of these rules because it's not my place. I willingly chose to go there. Their house, their rules.

[Castel]

Anyone who now posts without using the string:XOFFTYR**889 at the top of their post is now rude and has no respect for me. Wait...creating my own definitions of Respect that have nothing to do with how good I am at my job will lead to disappointment??? Like hell!

But why is it for you to decide what's appropriate and not the venue?

I mean when I willingly choose to go to someone else's place I abide by their expectations of what's appropriate. If I'm at someone's house and they want me to take my shoes off, I take my shoes off. If I'm at fancy restaurant where jacket is required, I wear a jacket. If I'm playing tennis at one of the old school places that expects me to wear all white, I wear all white.

I don't question the logic of these rules because it's not my place. I willingly chose to go there. Their house, their rules.

The opera took my money, the beach is the beach. Unless they have a code they can go to hell, the transaction is complete. If they have a code they can enforce it and lose my business or not. Their choice. If they don't I assume that they care more about my money than my dress. The other patrons can also go to hell, because I also paid to be there.

At a wedding or funeral I have family members there that I care about and I didn't organize the event or pay for it, nor do I have an equal share of the financial burden as other patrons.

[MisterOJ]

But why is it for you to decide what's appropriate and not the venue?

I mean when I willingly choose to go to someone else's place I abide by their expectations of what's appropriate. If I'm at someone's house and they want me to take my shoes off, I take my shoes off. If I'm at fancy restaurant where jacket is required, I wear a jacket. If I'm playing tennis at one of the old school places that expects me to wear all white, I wear all white.

I don't question the logic of these rules because it's not my place. I willingly chose to go there. Their house, their rules.

It's completely fine for the venue to decide. I've stated that more than once. If a restaurant or concert hall wants to have a dress code, I think that's great. I probably won't show up ever, but I fully support their right to have and enforce a dress code.

But that's not what we've been talking about. We're talking about other patrons trying to enforce a dress code that doesn't exist. That's what I have a problem with.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Anyone here ever play in the Society For Creative Anachronism (SCA)? There is no requirement that you dress in "garb" to attend an SCA event but if you don't it, in my opinion, detracts from the spirit of the event. I see dressing sloppily for something like an opera, symphony, or ballet to have the same quality. It's not wrong but it detracts from the mood the event sets.

Ser Scot,

How are my freshly cleaned jeans and t-shirt, sloppy?

[Castel]

Ser Scot,

How are my freshly cleaned jeans and t-shirt, sloppy?

It's sloppy because it's against the rules, it's against the rules because it's sloppy.

[IheartTesla]

Many opera houses themselves mention that you can go in pretty much any attire (they do put some disclaimers in them). This is on their websites. At least two of them mentioned that dressing up for it is a holdover from times of royalty, and nowadays it was more egalitarian.

[Guest Raidne]

We've come a loooong way from "early in the previous thread" and folks seem to have rather hardened in their opinions. Probably not you, but others.

I asked the question you asked in the other thread and don't mind repeating the answer I got - it was basically that where there is an issue of showing respect for the efforts of specific individual people, people will care enough to put on something nicer than jeans, e.g., at a wedding, funeral, formal party thrown by a friend, etc. But where the issue is one of respect for strangers, nobody gives a shit. It's basically the bystander phenomena, i.e., the whole "I may like a person, but I hate people" thing, IMO.

I am just... baffled by the comfort issue. I can't speak to women's clothing, like I said, but menswear is not uncomfortable.

Women's clothes are, if anything, potentially even more comfortable. Today I am wearing a dress that is fitted, but has some stretch, and a long loose cardigan, and comfortable boots. I could easily wear flats. This is about as comfortable as wearing pajamas to work. Every pair of jeans I own is less comfortable than this.

Honestly, it's not so much a physical thing. It's mostly mental. I will fully admit to that. My parents dressed me up for all kinds of crazy ass events when I was a kid. Church, plays, performances, etc. Always made a big deal over making sure I looked just right.

I fucking hated it. But, I had to do it because I was a kid, ya know? Now I'm an adult and I can make those choices for myself. And I choose not to in most situations. I don't think that makes me a bad person, although some folks clearly disagree.

Ah, I understand in your case now. I can see why you feel that way. But feeling that your parents were being needlessly superficial and projecting their own insecurities onto you is not, in the end, really related to conforming to appropriate dress codes for an event. Just thinking of it as dressing for the event, and not for the sake of measuring up to other people's expectations, because from what you say here, thinking about it the latter way would probably annoy the fuck out you, yeah?

[Minaku]

Anyone who now posts without using the string:XOFFTYR**889 at the top of their post is now rude and has no respect for me. Wait...creating my own definitions of Respect that have nothing to do with how good I am at my job will lead to disappointment? Like hell!

The opera took my money, the beach is the beach. Unless they have a code they can go to hell, the transaction is complete. If they have a code they can enforce it and lose my business or not. Their choice. If they don't I assume that they care more about my money than my dress.

At a wedding or funeral I have family members there that I care about and I didn't organize the event or pay for it, nor do I have an equal share of the financial burden as other patrons.

You are hung up on the idea that because money has exchanged hands, you are now allowed to do whatever you want.