Am I over-reacting to my daughter's new swimsuit?

[Ser Greguh]

I have to say that I'm a bit surprised by this thread. While I certainly understand the impulse in protecting young girls from being sexualized, and I am as repulsed as anyone by "Beauty Pageants" in which young girls are encouraged and coached to imitate sexual behavior and judged on their ability to do so, it does not follow that any behavior that begins to lean in that direction must necessarily be judged as a slippery slope.

Girls (and boys) develop secondary sex characteristics at different rates. For those that develop more slowly, it's often a source of tremendous anxiety. So whether or not the swimsuit is designed to give the illusion that a girl is developing breasts when in fact she is not just yet (and it seems like in this case that is not its primary purpose; that the pads are really there for smaller, slightly older girls that are starting to develop and require modesty padding), that's not particularly unnatural or unhealthy. News flash: children are always playing at being older than they are. If you think it's weird that a girl of that age might want to wear an outfit that gives them the illusion of breasts in a public place where her soon-to-be-changing body is on more display than usual, I think you're fighting against the sun coming up.

My primary worry from this discussion is not the impulse that led you to not approve of this swimsuit, though, but the fact that it actually caused a fight: now that you've publicly freaked out over an outfit that makes it look like she has breasts, how will you react when, y'know, she starts actually growing breasts for real? I think at the very least, you're giving her the message that you're not someone she can come to with anything even remotely resembling a female problem. Worst-case is that you're teaching her that breasts should be a source of shame. There's a slippery slope argument in the other direction, too.

[awesome possum]

What exactly is the message you are trying to impart to your daughter? That it's not OK to have (or appear to have) boobs?

The message I would impart to my daughter is that it's not OK to wear clothes that make it look like you have something you don't, especially before you've even freaking hit puberty.

[Angalin]

Up to this point, parenting has just been simple - but the past handful of months have gotten a little trickier. We've* already had the talk about where babies come from. That was great. It was earlier than I thought we'd have it, but she asked because she heard some kids at school talking about how it had to do with "something a mom and dad do together." She was appropriately disgusted and immediately said she just wanted to watch cartoons "so she could forget about it." So that was nice.

You would never, ever want to hear the chats the Things and I have about sex.

Dealing with sex and body issues starts at a surprisingly young age. My niece got an unsigned note in her class pigeonhole that said "u r hot (name)". In my book, nine-year-olds aren't supposed to be "hot". Maybe funny, pretty, or smart... not hot. The bad spelling didn't help her admirer's case, either.

The message I would impart to my daughter is that it's not OK to wear clothes that make it look like you have something you don't, especially before you've even freaking hit puberty.

For me, it's about whether or not clothes are age-appropriate to young children (see above comments about pageant weirdness), because the way you've phrased your view makes me feel like flattering/tailored/figure-enhancing clothing is not acceptable at any age.

[awesome possum]

For me, it's about whether or not clothes are age-appropriate to young children (see above comments about pageant weirdness), because the way you've phrased your view makes me feel like flattering/tailored/figure-enhancing clothing is not acceptable at any age.

Well the overly protective part of me wants to say, "for my daughter, at least, damn right!" Though I know in reality I will have very little say over how she dresses (beyond my money being used for said clothing), especially since my wife and my daughter's "aunties" all love their cleavage-baring shirts and dresses.

But mostly it's disgust that something like this exists for pre-pubescent children.

[Ghosts Companion]

My daughter is 13 (almost 14), and it has been a struggle to find clothes for her since she was about 8. The clothes start off so cute and then suddenly it jumps to a slutty look and stupid saying on their butts and across their chests. My daughter is very modest luckily but it made it even harder to find clothes for her.

Now in her teen years it is even worse. The clothes are low cut, the only shorts you can find are short shorts, and the bras are all push up bras. It all boils down to stupid parents buying this crap and society think it is okay. My daughter wears sometimes up to 2 tank tops to compensate for the low cut shirts. And every year we struggle to find shorts that come to her knees and are not basket ball shorts. The school has a policy with the shorts (the kids ignore it) and my daughter has super long legs and long arms, so she has to wear shorts to her knees to meet policy.

Glad you found a solution and good luck with future shopping!

[Lyanna Stark]

My primary worry from this discussion is not the impulse that led you to not approve of this swimsuit, though, but the fact that it actually caused a fight: now that you've publicly freaked out over an outfit that makes it look like she has breasts, how will you react when, y'know, she starts actually growing breasts for real? I think at the very least, you're giving her the message that you're not someone she can come to with anything even remotely resembling a female problem. Worst-case is that you're teaching her that breasts should be a source of shame. There's a slippery slope argument in the other direction, too.

This is an extremely difficult line to walk though, as unfortunately, even clothes for very young kids are horrendously sexualised today. I don't know how often you visit shops with kids clothes in them, but I promise you, as a parent they can often prove a nightmare. How do you explain to your daughter that no, string underpants are not appropriate for someone their age, even if they come in their size? And that's not trying to shame the kids, but trying to protect them against buying into an over sexualised world view where women become objects at younger and younger ages.

Of course, on the flipside you also don't want to be seem an uptight old prude either, but how to judge? What choices to make? It's bloody difficult once you enter the "pink swamp", as I call the clothes shops' girls departments. Even for girls as young as two-three it's all frills, lace, "I am cute" tops with red lips on them, etc. Kids clothing is depressingly stereotypical.

I want my daughter to grow up with a sound and healthy body image and with confidence in herself. That part is easy. The hard part is where do I put down my foot, what battles do I pick and why? Will she always accept that I buy parts of her wardrobe in the boys' section, or will she refuse to wear stuff that is blue/green/grey?

[Baitac]

I agree with Zabsie. I don't think it's a big deal at all. The bathing suit is adorable and there's not telling when a girls will start feeling uncomfortable wearing unlined tops. Did you ask your daughter what her opinion was? I think some of this reaction may have to do with the fact that she is growing up and that is a very difficult thing for daddies to deal with. Just know that no matter the age, she will always be your little girl and nothing, not padding, or college, or weddings can change that. Your little girls are growing up, MrOJ, and you are going to make it. You will be fine. :grouphug:

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Lyanna - I my favorite "non-pink" brands are as follows:

Tea Collection: http://www.teacollection.com/girls-outfits

Mini Boden (which you probably know better than I)

Hanna Andersson (ditto)

They are all pricey, for sure. I shop the sales online (and have signed up for coupons) so that it doesn't usually end up being much more than I would have spent at Old Navy (which, btw, I also ADORE - they have darling things, but also plenty of pink princess explosion).

(I also like Naartjie, but you may find it too frilly and "out there" for your taste).

That said, we were in a childrens' store this weekend, and it was really, really, really depressing. The stuff was so inappropriate (mesh tops for 3 year olds; the cutsie kissy kissy shirts, etc.), overpriced and, well, depressing. I think my girls are going to think that clothes are just found online for a long, long, time.

[MisterOJ]

I know Justice gets a bad rap, and understandably so, but the main reason my daughter likes that store is because they sell a lot of cool soccer-themed clothes (and for my younger daughter, gymnastics-themed clothes.) They each have at least 3-4 outfits that are sports-themed from there that are perfectly appropriate and not "pink" at all.

[JonArryn]

What, have I missed something?

Why would girls nowadays get breasts earlier than people used to get throughout history?

To answer the question: the suit looked pretty innocent. But I don't think it is necessary to have padding in the top when girls that age is gonna wear it. It just furthers the attention on having a certain type of body and maybe gets the whole maturing thing to affect the girls mind earlier. They don't really need that when they are that young.

And maybe it can make girls more promiscuous in the future regarding sex, because sooner or later most girls wear skimpy bikinis, and that time maybe doesn't need to be emphasized that early on.

[Angalin]

Oilily has cute stuff; more pink there than I remembered. :unsure: And Du Pareil au Meme has some very good pieces, not always extortionately priced (NB: the online prices were good until Canada Customs caught up with the shipment and added a whack of duty to it).

What, have I missed something?

Why would girls nowadays get breasts earlier than people used to get throughout history?

To answer the question: the suit looked pretty innocent. But I don't think it is necessary to have padding in the top when girls that age is gonna wear it. It just furthers the attention on having a certain type of body and maybe gets the whole maturing thing to affect the girls mind earlier. They don't really need that when they are that young.

And maybe it can make girls more promiscuous in the future regarding sex, because sooner or later most girls wear skimpy bikinis, and that time maybe doesn't need to be emphasized that early on.

Please, explain to me the correlation between wearing bikinis and promiscuity. I look forward to being enlightened.

[The Anti-Targ]

I am probably dropping a bomb here, but I feel I need to say that I see absolutely no reason for little girls to wear the upper part of the swimming suit at all, if we are speaking of bikinis. The argument that Cuellar gave about additional warmth is valid for the suits that cover the belly, but if it is the usual bikini with a bra, the bra makes more trouble than good IMHO. Children are jumping in and out of the water while at the beach all the time, never completely dry, and wearing half-dried clothes on them is not healthy. Also, every time I see a girl with no breasts wearing it, it lays wrong because it has nothing to support it, so to speak, and therefore it really cannot be for aesthetical reasons.

On topic, I guess the padding is not really appropriate, but maybe you are overreacting a little - I cannot know how the suit would look on a person, but I guess nothing bad can come out of her wearing it. :dunno:

I have no problem with that at all, as I see it all the time. My interpretation of what's considered appropriate clothing for the generally accepted morals of society is that you cover up the bits that have some association with sexuality. Basically genitals and boobs, and to a lesser degree butt. Young girls have genitals and butts but they don't have boobs. Hence the essential coverage is below the waist, above the waist needs no more coverage than for boys, to whit sunsmart coverage is highly recommended which means something like this: http://www.speedousa.com/begin-to-swim-sun-shirt.shtml otherwise with copious amounts of sunscreen nil coverage.

Once the breasts start to develop then it become appropriate to cover teh chest.

[~ZombieWife~]

At first, I thought, "no biggie." I'd rather have my kid not have her ninnies popping up when she got cold. Then I saw the picture and noticed the cup-shaped portion. Even when it's NOT on a child, it looks like it has breasts.

Just weird, imho.

I'm with you. I wouldn't let my kid in it. They can put padding in w/o making it boob-shaped.

[Gertrude]

eh, at a certain age, even without developed breasts, I think it's wise to cover up (don't ask me what the cut off is, I don't know). I have a memory of playing outdoors without a top and a neighbor boy making me feel really ... i don't know ...dirty? guilty? about it. I definitely didn't do it again.

[kairparavel]

Please, explain to me the correlation between wearing bikinis and promiscuity. I look forward to being enlightened.

Even worse, it can lead to marrying a chef.

She did. If only I could go back and talk to my four year old self...

I'm not a parent, but I understand the frustrations of buying clothes for young girls. I LOVE clothes shopping for my nieces and it usually works out. I stick to Old Navy, Osh Kosh and Target for Cherokee stuff, but this Christmas, trying to find seemingly age-appropriate stuff for the 7 year old was extremely difficult. Both she and the 4 year old wanted a fancy dress. Target gave me a lot of stuff seemingly for a pre-teen or older in size 8/M. I was getting a lot of prom dresses and cocktail dresses in that size range. It was disconcerting. But if you look around, you can find stuff. It just takes some time, weeding out.

But I also remember when I was ten, and my best friend was WAY more developed than any other girl in the class. It just happens sometimes. So clothing manufactures can and should be able to accommodate all girls at all stages in most sizes without making them feel self conscious. My bestie would most certainly have needed modesty padding in her bathing suit.

[TerraPrime]

What, have I missed something?

Why would girls nowadays get breasts earlier than people used to get throughout history?

The age of menarche (first menstrual period) has consistently decreased during modern times. From wiki:

There were few systematic studies of timing of menarche before the later half of the 20th century. Most older estimates of average timing of menarche were based on observation of a small homogeneous population not necessarily representative of the larger population, or based on recall by adult women, which is also susceptible to various forms of error. Most sources agree that the average age of menarche in girls in modern societies has declined, though the reasons and the degree remain subjects of controversy. A decline in the average age of menarche from 17 to 13 in Europe from 1850 to 1960 is well documented,[15] but a large North American survey reported only a 2-3 month decline from the mid-1970s to the mid-1990s.[16] A 2011 study found that each 1 kg/m2 increase in childhood body-mass index (BMI) can be expected to result in a 6.5% higher absolute risk of early menarche (before age 12 years).[17] The decline is commonly attributed to larger body size and earlier average attainment of sufficient body fat, but other factors such as environmental exposure to chemicals that mimic estrogen or the urbanization and sexualization of Western society have also been considered as contributing factors.[citation needed]

And maybe it can make girls more promiscuous in the future regarding sex, because sooner or later most girls wear skimpy bikinis, and that time maybe doesn't need to be emphasized that early on.

Yes, I echo Angalin's question.

[Lord O' Bones]

What, have I missed something?

Why would girls nowadays get breasts earlier than people used to get throughout history?

Nutrition mostly. But if you even have to ask, you missed something. Plus, a point is that some girls are not all girls.

Please, explain to me the correlation between wearing bikinis and promiscuity. I look forward to being enlightened.

I know that when I'm in my two piece it's because I'm ready to go.

And by "go" I mean fuck.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

If they were flat circles, and she did get boobies or cold nipples, the padding would push out in a weird way. The edges of the circle would get all, well, like cupcake liner edges. It's better to have more padding than less, and have her get embarrassed or weirdos looking at her.

[Sixshells]

FFS, I can't believe there is so much obsession over nipples.

Some posts ago there was a discussion about whether or not disapproval of padded swimsuits could lead to impress on the child that breasts were bad, or something. What about the impression given by a fixation on hiding those nipples, then?

[Angalin]

Even worse, it can lead to marrying a chef.

She did. If only I could go back and talk to my four year old self...

:lol: What were her feelings on bacon?

I know that when I'm in my two piece it's because I'm ready to go.

And by "go" I mean fuck.

Jantzen agreed with you. :stunned: What a terrible fashion, both in clothing and advertising.

FFS, I can't believe there is so much obsession over nipples.

Some posts ago there was a discussion about whether or not disapproval of padded swimsuits could lead to impress on the child that breasts were bad, or something. What about the impression given by a fixation on hiding those nipples, then?

Nobody has yet recovered from the Jackson/Timberlake SuperBowl halftime show.