Tempest Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Didn't Dany say that she believed that Rhaegar took Lyanna by sword point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Jon is his son.Do you really believe that? Or do you mean not his literal son but that he raised him as a son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Didn't Dany say that she believed that Rhaegar took Lyanna by sword point?I don't remember that. And how would Dany know anyway. I just don't believe she was kidnapped, and I won't until its confirmed in the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Do you really believe that. Or do you mean not his literal son but that he raised him as a son. the latter. Ned's not wrong in calling Jon his son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 the latter. Ned's not wrong in calling Jon his son.That's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonin Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 We don't get a common folks perspective, but amongst the nobles Lyanna's death does not seem to draw much interest. Ned's version of Lynna's death seems to be accepted. Cersei does not seem interested, nor are Jaime or Selmy (L/C of KGs would be interested in the fate of the 3 KG at ToJ).. I suspect the common folk don't much care. Unlike most people, I think the people with knowledge of the events at ToJ does include some servants (cooking, cleaning, mucking the stables, getting supplies, etc) and some maester(s) for medical care for Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I don't remember that. And how would Dany know anyway. I just don't believe she was kidnapped, and I won't until its confirmed in the text. I remember that. She wanted Daario to come in and run off with her like Rhaegar did with Lyanna, and she is usually pretty ignorant to her family's faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djinn Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Daenaerys thinks that she was kidnapped, she mentions this to Barristan. Bran thinks she was kidnapped, he mentions this when thinking about the rebelion. Brienne thinks she was kidnapped, she mention this to Jaime.As for her death, Ned says she died of a fever. It's boring, so people don't think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caravaggio Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Here are some things I think about along these same lines...We know that when Ned arrives at the Tower of Joy he has Reed, Dustin, Glover, Cassel, Wull, and Ryswell with him. At the tower are Lyanna, a newborn (probably), Dayne, Whent, and Hightower. So it makes sense that since everyone, with the exception of Ned, Reed, and the baby, dies no word gets out.But hold on... where are all the servants? Where is the midwife? The cooks, etc,etc.Did they flee before Ned got there? If so, you'd think one of them would have spilled the beans that Rhaegar had a kid.Did the King's Guard put them to the sword? It seems unlikely that they who are charged with protecting the new baby would lower its chance of survival.Did Ned put them to the sword? Seems out of character... and even if he did you'd think he would have kept one alive as a wet nurse instead of traveling all the way to Starfall with no way to feed the baby.Someone else has to be there at some point besides the characters we know. I very much doubt Rhaegar appoints The Sword of the Morning the position of midwife.Then there's Starfall. Wylla and Ashara can't be the only people that see Ned with the kid. Anyone who sees him knows it isn't Ashara or Wylla's.It seems to me Varys or a Varys-like character would be very interested to find out who the mother of Ned's bastard was. He is a powerful Lord after all and any leverage would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I don't remember that. And how would Dany know anyway. I just don't believe she was kidnapped, and I won't until its confirmed in the text.Her brother told her that, Vis who was at KL and was there when Rhaegar returned. It would appear even house Targaryen thought she was taken at sword point. He was about 8 when his brother returned to KL. May have even talked to him. Although people often disavow what he says because he was Vis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Here are some things I think about along these same lines...We know that when Ned arrives at the Tower of Joy he has Reed, Dustin, Glover, Cassel, Wull, and Ryswell with him. At the tower are Lyanna, a newborn (probably), Dayne, Whent, and Hightower. So it makes sense that since everyone, with the exception of Ned, Reed, and the baby, dies no word gets out.But hold on... where are all the servants? Where is the midwife? The cooks, etc,etc.Did they flee before Ned got there? If so, you'd think one of them would have spilled the beans that Rhaegar had a kid.Did the King's Guard put them to the sword? It seems unlikely that they who are charged with protecting the new baby would lower its chance of survival.Did Ned put them to the sword? Seems out of character... and even if he did you'd think he would have kept one alive as a wet nurse instead of traveling all the way to Starfall with no way to feed the baby.Someone else has to be there at some point besides the characters we know. I very much doubt Rhaegar appoints The Sword of the Morning the position of midwife.Then there's Starfall. Wylla and Ashara can't be the only people that see Ned with the kid. Anyone who sees him knows it isn't Ashara or Wylla's.It seems to me Varys or a Varys-like character would be very interested to find out who the mother of Ned's bastard was. He is a powerful Lord after all and any leverage would do.Someone else was in the Tower with Lyanna. Most likely Wylla, and I think that`s that. I don`t think they had some big household. Kingsguard was protecting Lyanna, and I think Daynes gave Wylla to nurture Lyanna and take care of her. Perhaps, food has been brought from Starfall, but that`s that. I don`t think Rhaegar would jeopardize countless people in this affair. IT had to be inner siscle of people. Ashara, Wylla, KIngsguards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojzelote Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 also Ned wouldn't lie to his children^Even Bran thinks she was kidnapped, and Robert thinking it points to most people thinking the same.Bran also claims to Osha that Aerys had Rickard beheaded (while he had him roasted).Whoever his informator had been (and I imagine Ned would talk to his kids about this at least once) he was not wholly trustworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Bran also claims to Osha that Aerys had Rickard beheaded (while he had him roasted). Whoever his informator had been (and I imagine Ned would talk to his kids about this at least once) he was not wholly trustworthy. Oh it's not about the truth; it's about what everyone believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Here are some things I think about along these same lines... We know that when Ned arrives at the Tower of Joy he has Reed, Dustin, Glover, Cassel, Wull, and Ryswell with him. At the tower are Lyanna, a newborn (probably), Dayne, Whent, and Hightower. So it makes sense that since everyone, with the exception of Ned, Reed, and the baby, dies no word gets out. But hold on... where are all the servants? Where is the midwife? The cooks, etc,etc. Did they flee before Ned got there? If so, you'd think one of them would have spilled the beans that Rhaegar had a kid. Did the King's Guard put them to the sword? It seems unlikely that they who are charged with protecting the new baby would lower its chance of survival. Did Ned put them to the sword? Seems out of character... and even if he did you'd think he would have kept one alive as a wet nurse instead of traveling all the way to Starfall with no way to feed the baby. Someone else has to be there.you think these grown ass men cant cook their own food and wash their own ass? Wylla was probably the only other person who was at the tower during Lyanna's stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Bran also claims to Osha that Aerys had Rickard beheaded (while he had him roasted).Whoever his informator had been (and I imagine Ned would talk to his kids about this at least once) he was not wholly trustworthy.Would you tell your 7 year-old son his grandfather was roasted while his uncle was strangled watching his father burning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojzelote Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Oh it's not about the truth; it's about what everyone believes.I was responding to the *even Bran thinks so.* Not an indicative, imo. Anyway, I've got the impression that Rhaegar is still held in high regard by many, despite the thing with Lyanna and Robert's subsequent claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Would you tell your 7 year-old son his grandfather was roasted while his uncle was strangled watching his father burning? Well, if I am taking him to watch me behead people and giving him a huge wolf to raise on his own - probably yes. :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 There were three Kingsguard also staying there afterwards. There had to be more servants than just Wylla. Possibly a cook and most likely a squire or a page and the stable guy. Its likely all but Wylla ended up killed but you never know. Most people think Lyanna was kidnapped. But we really only hear the rape story from Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Well, if I am taking him to watch me behead people and giving him a huge wolf to raise on his own - probably yes. :cool4::), trie enough. But even Catelyn didn`t know what truly happen. As she said, they are dead, that`s that. I imagine that perhaps Ned told his children that Aerys sentenced Rickard to them, and Bran watching how it`s done, assumed he was beheaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caravaggio Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 you think these grown ass men cant cook their own food and wash their own ass? Wylla was probably the only other person who was at the tower during Lyanna's stay.The day Ned goes there... maybe, but The Crown Prince was spending an awful lot of time there. There is no evidence Wylla was ever there, and even if she was she isn't a Maester, just a wet nurse.Anyone who sees Lyanna and Rhaegar together while at the Tower would know she wasn't kidnapped and that she was pregnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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