R+L=J v.48

[Jon Icefyre]

Thank you - though the level of my dedication seems to exceed my patience, especially of late.

Trust me I completely understand where your coming from.

[FrozenFire3]

:agree: Haha academic indeed :rolleyes:

Thank you - though the level of my dedication seems to exceed my patience, especially of late.

And yes, the depth of the analysis was truly daunting.

If one dislikes with such a visceral passion a character the author devised to be narratively central and pivotal to the story development (as controversial/unfathomable he might be), the solution is very simple... None of us got an Asoiaf compulsory reading prescribed by the doctors, me thinks ;)

[finger]

Rhaegars orders can's override the King? Who said the king gave them any orders. They were clearly listening to Rhaegar when the took Lyanna, did the king order that. And according to the books there job is not just to guard it's to serve the king and his family. They were serving Rhaegar. When Rhaegar left Jon was not born, nobody new if it was a boy or girl and the King and the crown line still lived, so clearly his orders to matter as that's why they stayed to guard Lyanna. How would Rhaegars unborn child be the King before Rhaegar? That makes no sense.

Careful with asumptions. Rhaegar's orders overrinding king's would be equal to a struggle for power in the shadows.

When you make an asumption, your analysis bottom-up must be coherent. Inventing theories is funny, and I like it. But when you try to find out something about the story, you'd better be coherent.

I try my best to make clear when I've come up with a crazy crackpot and when I'm taking it seriously. These are two different kinds of fun, and both are most valid IMHO, but don't mis up.

[finger]

Your ability to produce a wall of text over reading comprehension fail of two short paragraphs is certainly amazing.

I never said a word about orders from Aerys, I compared the KG duty to guard the king - the one they're sworn as the highest riority in their lives - to a highest priority standing order in the army, to demonstrate the way prioritization of orders/duties works.

The fact that the KG stayed at ToJ after Rhaegar left on his orders is of zero importance because - and this has been reiterated ad nauseam - it is their presence at ToJ only after Viserys supposedly became the heir when there is a conflict of orders from Rhaegar and their duties and when my analogy applies.

Your fanfiction is claiming that Ned and Cat had a second marriage before a hearttree. Provide a quote or suck it up.

You claimed that southerners absolutely don't acknowledge old gods. I provided you an example of a southerner who takes an oath with old gods and it is considered binding and valid by the followers of the Seven. You have failed to back your theory again, despite claiming so. Oh, and IIRC, Sam asks permission to go out with the group to the hearttree, not to be allowed to switch religion.

I never claimed that Rhaegar absolutely must have said words with Lyanna before a hearttree, I merely claim that it is possible, and given Lyanna's religion, plus the Isle of Faces "along the way", more convenient for him than a septon. I have even argued other means of legitimizing Jon, such as blackmailing Aerys into issuing a secret decree in exchange for Rhaegar's return, but I think this not very plausible.

Don't you think that Martin tries to send a message that they are not really too religious?

OTOH, another of the main themes is to face right and merit. Sam swears before Jon's gods, because Jon's going to be his brother since then on. More so, Jon has made him his brother against other people's advice.

He had a father, who raised him under the Faith, but he had expelled him under death penalty. Why should he whorship his father's gods?

But this takes us out of the matter.

[UVA]

Rhaegars orders can's override the King? Who said the king gave them any orders. They were clearly listening to Rhaegar when the took Lyanna, did the king order that. And according to the books there job is not just to guard it's to serve the king and his family. They were serving Rhaegar. When Rhaegar left Jon was not born, nobody new if it was a boy or girl and the King and the crown line still lived, so clearly his orders to matter as that's why they stayed to guard Lyanna. How would Rhaegars unborn child be the King before Rhaegar? That makes no sense.

Several people have argued this interpretation before (Ygrain, Apple Martini to name a couple of posters), but I'll reiterate the essence of it here: this sequence makes sense if you consider that the reason the KG remained at the ToJ after Rhaegar's departure for the KL-Trident is not the same reason they stayed after the deaths of Aerys and Rhaegar. Rhaegar ordered them to protect Lyanna and her unborn child. It's not an extreme stretch to see that after the King, Rhaegar and Aegon had perished the KG remained to either 1) protect the new Targ kingn (post delivery) or, 2) the potential (in utero) new king.

Ser Creighton, your umbrage at being accused of fan-fic-based analysis is funny since I've seen you criticize (in the RLJ threads and elsewhere) other posters in a similar vein. We are here attempting to clarify an extremely and deliberately obscure subject. A vast majority of what is proposed pertaining to the mysteries of RLJ are extrapolations based on fragments of fact and hearsay. Some ideas are better supported than others. Your assumptions and beliefs are no more valid than the next poster -- that's for everyone else here to decide. Get over yourself buddy.

[Ruby Chevrolet]

The fact that the KINGSguard is at the ToJ is a pretty good indication. There's also the fact that Mormont's raven keeps calling Jon "King," which he would be if the Targs were still the ruling family.

I personally like this gem from Ned's first chapter:

Ned: “Kings are a rare sight in the north.”

Robert snorted. “More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!”

ETA: the fact that Lyanna is highly associated with crowns also speaks to this.

Also, my dear Fetch, 2 things:

1. Please read aGoT. It's really the only way to fully get R + L

2. This should have been asked in the R +L thread pinned to the top rather than its own thread

You left out the most important part of your "gem."

It is:

Robert: "Where are all your people?"

"Likely they were too shy to come out," Ned jested ... "Kings are a rare sight in the North."

Robert snorted. "More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!"

"Late summer snows are common enough," Ned said.

This is not a subtle clue that a king is hiding under the name "Snow." If anything, it suggests that the common, non-royal people are hiding from a king under the snow. Likely this is just to bring home the idea that in the North, it snows even in summer. And it may foreshadow Notherners hiding from a Southern king behind the snow the way the Russian army did to Napoleon.

I have two questions about this Raven. First, didn't he start saying "king" after Robb Stark was crowned, when Lord Mormont was worried that Jon would be jealous of the title "King in the North?" If anything, this would foreshadow Jon being made Robb's heir, not Rhaegar's.

Second, why would Bloodraven try to blow Jon's cover like this? If he wanted to send a message to Jon, why not warg a raven, tie a note on its foot, and fly the note to Jon (or Mormont, if that is who he is trying to tell)?

[butterbumps!]

You left out the most important part of your "gem."

It is:

Robert: "Where are all your people?"

"Likely they were too shy to come out," Ned jested ... "Kings are a rare sight in the North."

Robert snorted. "More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!"

"Late summer snows are common enough," Ned said.

This is not a subtle clue that a king is hiding under the name "Snow." If anything, it suggests that the common, non-royal people are hiding from a king under the snow. Likely this is just to bring home the idea that in the North, it snows even in summer. And it may foreshadow Notherners hiding from a Southern king behind the snow the way the Russian army did to Napoleon.

Yea, the actual referent is the common people. Yet the adjacency of the two sentences together produces a kind of dramatic irony. Martin's used that sort of twist in other places, such as when Varys tells Ned of the Arryn's poisoner, saying “There was one boy. All he was, he owed Jon Arryn, but when the widow fled to the Eyrie with her household, he stayed in King’s Landing and prospered. It always gladdens my heart to see the young rise in the world.” The referent in the text is Hugh, but the twist is that Varys means Littlefinger.

I have two questions about this Raven. First, didn't he start saying "king" after Robb Stark was crowned, when Lord Mormont was worried that Jon would be jealous of the title "King in the North?" If anything, this would foreshadow Jon being made Robb's heir, not Rhaegar's.

Second, why would Bloodraven try to blow Jon's cover like this? If he wanted to send a message to Jon, why not warg a raven, tie a note on its foot, and fly the note to Jon (or Mormont, if that is who he is trying to tell)?

If you believe part 2 of this last part, then which heir "king" might refer to is a moot point. I believe the Raven does start saying king after Robb is crowned, but it could be as easily argued that it's pointing to Jon as the "real" king or some such.

[Dragonfish]

Remember when Brandon was going to Marry Cat? It was going to be at Riverrun in a sept which is where Ned married her. Why? Because that is their religious faith, later she took part in the northern Custom in front of a tree.

First, I would like to echo Ygrain's request that you produce a quote showing that they were married later in front of a heart tree. I'm guessing there is no such quote. Sansa certainly never had a second ceremony with Tyrion, yet his family never worried that it would be considered invalid to Northerners because of that.

Second, if the choice of religious ceremony truly holds so much importance, shouldn't Robb be considered a bastard by Northers, since he was born before Ned and Cat would've ever had the chance to perform this second ceremony?

The Crown does not prey to trees and does not follow that religion which is why they cut the Wierwoods down and KL has no heart tree.

I don't recall any mention that the Targaryens cut down the weirwoods, only that the Andals did so. Also, King's Landing technically does have a heart tree, it just isn't a weirwood.

In any case, though the Targaryens are nominally followers of the Faith, they also reiterate time and again that they are above the laws of gods and men, which is why they practice incest in defiance of their supposed Faith. As such, there really is no reason to expect that performing a marriage in front of a weirwood would be a great sticking point for them.

[Moët]

OMG, it's taken me forever to catch up (and I had to skip ahead in 47.... :blushing: )

I don't think it matters how or where Rhaegar and Lyanna were married. The fact that the KG stays at the ToJ after Aerys, Rhaegar, and baby Aegon are all dead, tells me that's where the KING IS.

Westeros isn't 2013 Earth, and our laws of civil marriage do not apply.

That Rhaegar loved Lyanna is in the text.

That polygamy existed in Westeros is in the text.

That Arthur Dayne, Oswall Whent, and Lord Commander of the KG Ser Gerold Hightower, all state they "swore a vow", and "the Kingsguard does not flee", is in the text.

That tells me that Jon is not some Blackfyre bastard. If he was, they would have turned over mother and child to Ned and Howland when they showed up. There was no reason not to. Ned is her family.

[Ser Creighton]

The Religion of Westeros and Marriage.

Official Religion of Westeros, according the Wiki, it's the Faith of the 7 but certain parts of Westeros follow different religions and Custons

Religion of House Targaryen? The 7 they converted when the took Westeros.

Religion of King Stannis, the Red God, but his wife is the avid worshiper.

Starks The Old Gods they say their vows in front of a Wierwood no priest like figure involved but you need whittnesses and someone to give away the bride rightfully.

The Ironborn, follow the Drowned god. Wedding ceremony? Not sure

Robb Stark Married in the west. How? Probably a Sept, as we know there are no Wierwoods there.

Ned Riverrun, no Weirwood as stated by Cat.

Brandon was suppose to be at Riverrun, marriage cermony probably would of been the Same as Neds at least in terms of religion.

Sansa and Tyrion. Married by a Septon, never concimated, can not be considered legitmate

Tyrion and Tysha, Married by a Drunk Septon who Tyrion bribed. Anulled by his father when he found out about it.

Ramsay Bolton and Jenye Poole, fake marriage name is a lie, but I assume the cerimony is correct. Married in front of a Weirwood no preist like figure.

Alys Karstark and Sigorn married by Mel under the faith of the Red God. This is important for your argument. Not the Red god, or the Religion the situation and circumstance.

Did Rhaegar and Lyanna just run off and get married under a Wierwood at some location. Would it have been valid? Would Rhaegar need to switch Religion? I admit I am wrong here, I can not give a diffinative answer. I do not believe Rhaegar would have to switch religions. It seems what is appropreate to the situation, location, Region, House. 2 Northerners could probably get married by a Septon, in the south. If they were visiting another Lord they would probably respect his house and follow his customs or the customs of that region as it would be respectful. The term custom dictates comes to mind.

I concied the point. But don't give me that fan fic garbage I was using evidence from the books and making the assumption that, that was how it worked. And saying "no that's not it" did not exactly enlighten me to the the customs.

Could Lyanna have married Rhaegar? After months of debate over this, I concede the point, they could of indeed been married. But not because the Kingsguard was at the Tower, but because they could of in fact used a tree and Rhaegar had two wittnesses Dayne and Whent one of whom could of given Lyanna away as is norther Costom. Now I am not concieding they did this but I am concieding they very well could of.

Would it have been a legitamate marriage? This depends on what happened.

Argument one against the marriage. It may not of happend if Rhaegar thought it could not be legitimate. Why would it not be legitimate? Rickard did not give his permission and she had a contract with another man. Does this matter? Yes.

Supporting Evidence one. AGoT Chapter 4. Robert offers to wed Joffery to Sansa. He does not order it as Ned states he is surprised by the offer. But Ned agrees to it. So even a King had to make the request. Is this enough evidence? No.

Supporting evidence 2. ASoS chapter 28 Sansa and Tyrion. Cersei Lannister to Sansa. "No" Cersie "Yes, you are a ward of the Crown. The King stands in your fathers place, sense your brother is an attainted traitor. That means he has every right to dispose of your hand."

This gives some insight into the the laws, we know it's the fathers right to arrange the marriage of son or daughter and even the King has laws he must follow as shown by Robert and even Joffery. Cersie gives some insight into the laws there.

Supporting evidence 3. Tysha and Tyrion. AGoT ch 42. Tyrion speaks with Bronn about Tysha. Tyrion had wed Tysha by getting a Septon drunk and bribing him with 50 pieces of silver. When his father found out the Marriage was anulled. Tyrion also states they only "played at being man and wife." It suggests he new what was going to happen, and it did happen. As Tywin had not given his blessing the marriage was not legitamte and absolved.

The evidence suggest that even a King must ask permission for a hand and can't just order it. That the head of house has that right be it man or woman. If a person is a Ward of someone they may also arrange the marriage if the head of house can not. Further evidence is that Jon Arryn arranged Ned Stark to be Wed to Cat, Ned was Jons Ward and his father and Brother were dead.

Is this all their is to it? No.

An illagitamate marraige can occure if a head of house or custodian of a person does not willingly give the broide or grooms hand. If the marriage is forced, if it is a lie as in they lied about their names.

However a small counter argument exists to the giving of the hand. I can't really use Ramsay and Jenye Poole here because it was never a legitamte marriage to begin with, Jeyne is not Arya. The Crown could give to Jenye to marriage as she was also a ward but she is not Arya.

Alys Karstark is a different matter.

Alys Karstark to Sigorn. Extenuating circumstances. ADwD chapter 44.

Alys is fleeing from her great uncle and her brother the rightful Heir is a prisoner. Her uncle plots to have Harry killed and her wed and pregnant and believes he will then have her killed like 2 previous wives. Jon seems to support Stannis clim to an extent and suggests the matter of marriage and inheritance is for the King to decide. But Jon is made aware that Arnolf plans to kill Stannis. Which would be treason as he has decleared for Stannis. Now Jon is actually following law here, there are two claims to the throne with Stannis and Tommen at the time and Arnolf has decleared for Stannis, even if a lie he still did it meaning Stannis would have the right to deal with this as Arnolfs King.

Jon had also observed guest rights with Alys as she is eating bread in front of him. Cregan who came for her got no such luxury. Cregan argued a marriage pact but Jon corrected him saying a Castellan has no rights to make a pact and that his father is not a lord. This is just further insight into marriage laws of Westeros. Jon also points out in the argument that in succession daughter comes before uncle. So Arnolf had legal right to do anything with Alys. Alys had a valid complaint. Recieved guess rights from Jon putting her under his protection. And the queen observed the marriage vows herself. Alys gave her hand freely and Jon suggested the marriage and did not order it, neither did the crown.

However an important point is brought up, a king can decide marriage disputes. Now a normale king probably would send Lyanna home as she is promised by her father to Lorf Robert Baratheon and neither has plotted to harm her or hurt her. Most would consider it a good arrangment in this world. Aerys is no such king and may very well have agreed to such.

But his brings up some problems, when would the marriage have occured? Lyanna would have had to have gone to KL as we know Aerys only left once and that was Harrenhal. She would have to bring this dispute before the king. And how would Pycel and Varys not recall this. How would anyone not recall this. Had the king given her permission to wed Rhaegar and absolved the pact with Robert they would have been married in KL wouldn't they? Now the King could of given any reason really he was crazy and he could of said a little birdy told him to do it.

I find this option unlikely as Lyanna would have knowing used a mad king to make a false claim to get out of a marriage. Not to mention nobody recalls anything like that ever.

The second option is that the marriage occures after Aerys names the Starks traitors. As Traitors, Lyanna as a highborn lady becomes a Ward of the Crown much like Sansa. The king is free to giver her to his son. But this would mean Lyanna would have know about her brother being imprisoned and her family named for traitors. Does not really suggest a person of high moral character. That would make her a direct accomplace to the murder of her brother and father.

Which seems unlikely.

Now I have given text, chapters, quotes, paraphased transcript, examples from the book, evidence of laws,

If anyone has anyting else to add to this please do as I have done what I could in a short amount of time and I don't know if I have covered every example and clues about marriage laws among the nobles.

I have pointed out the areas I was wrong about and concieded those points and apologize for my confusion on some of the matters. Many of the laws and customs can transend into grey areas in the books. At no point was I trying to make up there laws or write my own story about it and I do not appreciate someone saying I was. I made an assumptionand it was wrong, I made the assumption based off examples in the books.

Now I have tried to clear that up, that's all I can do. I have also stated in this post as to when I am making certain assumptions. Which are all based on the text I have given. Feel free to check those chapters yourself.

Now the question still exists was it a legitamte marriage? After reading about some of the laws and rights, I would have to say no. Her father never gave her had or permission to Rhaegar. While the King could of the situation in which he would of prevents me from believing Lyanna would bring that upon her family.

[Dr. Pepper]

Re: Weirwoods

There is a weirwood at Riverrun. Cat describes it as slender and young, I believe. Robb executes Karstark in front of it. I don't think there is any explicit evidence that there are no weirwoods in the west.

[Dragonfish]

There is a weirwood at Riverrun. Cat describes it as slender and young, I believe. Robb executes Karstark in front of it.

Are you sure this was specifically a weirwood, or just a heart tree? The wiki claims that Riverrun's weirwood was cut down a thousand years ago, but you know how reliable the wiki can be.

[Dr. Pepper]

Are you sure this was specifically a weirwood, or just a heart tree? The wiki claims that Riverrun's weirwood was cut down a thousand years ago, but you know how reliable the wiki can be.

As far as I recall, a heart tree is a weirwood with a face carved into it. But yes, it's specifically a weirwood that Cat describes at Riverrun. Here's one mention:

She found Robb beneath the green canopy of leaves, surrounded by tall redwoods and great old elms, kneeling before the heart tree, a slender weirwood with a face more sad than fierce.

The Rivverrun weirwood may be young, the originals cut down thousands of years ago.

[Dragonfish]

Tyrion and Tysha, Married by a Drunk Septon who Tyrion bribed. Anulled by his father when he found out about it.

There is actually nothing that says this is what happened. It's possible Tywin forced them into the Westerosi equivalent of a divorce, or essentially forced everyone around him to act as if the marriage never truly happened. In fact, there's a theory out there that Littlefinger will succeed in having Sansa's marriage to Tyrion anulled when he discovers that Tyrion's first marriage was never truly set aside.

Now the question still exists was it a legitamte marriage? After reading about some of the laws and rights, I would have to say no. Her father never gave her had or permission to Rhaegar. While the King could of the situation in which he would of prevents me from believing Lyanna would bring that upon her family.

The quotes you posted do a good job of showing who has the right to arrange or force marriages, but nothing in the texts states that a marriage that occurs without a liege's permission is considered ipso facto invalid.

Also, and this is a small point that has no bearing on the current argument, but it's just something that drives me batty: "could of" and "would of" are not grammatical. You mean "could've" and "would've."

Oh, and while I'm at it, here's something I've been meaning to say for a long time, to no one in particular: the noun "prophecy" is spelled with a "c", not an "s." The word "prophesy" is a verb, and is pronounced proff-uh-sigh.

Phew, it feels good to get that off my chest.

[FittleLinger]

As far as I recall, a heart tree is a weirwood with a face carved into it. But yes, it's specifically a weirwood that Cat describes at Riverrun. Here's one mention:

She found Robb beneath the green canopy of leaves, surrounded by tall redwoods and great old elms, kneeling before the heart tree, a slender weirwood with a face more sad than fierce.

The Rivverrun weirwood may be young, the originals cut down thousands of years ago.

The heart tree thing is confusing. I thought that a heart tree is a weirwood with a face, too, but recently I found out that KL has a heart tree, which is an oak and not a weirwood. So a heart tree is the center of the godswood, but it might not be a weirwood per se, or at least that's what I understand.

But I agree, what Cat describes in that quote is a real deal weirwood.

[Moët]

Did Rhaegar and Lyanna just run off and get married under a Wierwood at some location. Would it have been valid? Would Rhaegar need to switch Religion?

Yes, it would have been valid. No, no one needs to change religion. Ned kept the old gods, while Cat kept the 7. Mixed marriage.

Would it have been a legitimate marriage?

Yes.

Argument one against the marriage. It may not of happened if Rhaegar thought it could not be legitimate. Why would it not be legitimate? Rickard did not give his permission and she had a contract with another man.

Doesn't matter. Rhaegar isn't just anyone. He's the Crown Prince. And just because Rickard wasn't asked, doesn't mean the Crown Prince can't take what he wants, he out-ranks everyone in the Seven Kingdoms except the King.

Robert offers to wed Joffery to Sansa. He does not order it as Ned states he is surprised by the offer. But Ned agrees to it. So even a King had to make the request.

There is no requirement for Robert to ask Ned for Sansa's hand. He's the King. He asks because Ned is his friend, because he wants Ned to be his Hand, and because he doesn't want war with the North if he stole Sansa away and Ned didn't want the match. It really doesn't matter if Ned says no. Robert is King. Ned swore fealty to him. The King has every right to take what he wants. He asks out of courtesy, and because it makes life easier in the long run. The law doesn't require it.

Supporting evidence 2. ASoS chapter 28 Sansa and Tyrion. Cersei Lannister to Sansa. "No" Cersie "Yes, you are a ward of the Crown. The King stands in your fathers place, sense your brother is an attainted traitor. That means he has every right to dispose of your hand."

Exactly. Joffrey is King. He wants people married; they marry. No permission needed.

If Rheagar and Lyanna weren't married, that would mean Jon was a bastard, and Lyanna a single mother, and sister to Ned Stark, now Lord of Winterfell, and Warden of the North. Give me a legitimate reason the three Kingsguard wouldn't allow Ned to take home his sister and her child? On what grounds at that point is there any reason for a fight? There is none.

[Moët]

Also, and this is a small point that has no bearing on the current argument, but it's just something that drives me batty: "could of" and "would of" are not grammatical. You mean "could've" and "would've."

Oh, and while I'm at it, here's something I've been meaning to say for a long time, to no one in particular: the noun "prophecy" is spelled with a "c", not an "s." The word "prophesy" is a verb, and is pronounced proff-uh-sigh.

Phew, it feels good to get that off my chest.

:agree: Yes, because it's would HAVE, could HAVE, not could OF. The phrase "would/could of" makes no sense.

[Ruby Chevrolet]

Yea, the actual referent is the common people. Yet the adjacency of the two sentences together produces a kind of dramatic irony. Martin's used that sort of twist in other places, such as when Varys tells Ned of the Arryn's poisoner, saying “There was one boy. All he was, he owed Jon Arryn, but when the widow fled to the Eyrie with her household, he stayed in King’s Landing and prospered. It always gladdens my heart to see the young rise in the world.” The referent in the text is Hugh, but the twist is that Varys means Littlefinger.

If you believe part 2 of this last part, then which heir "king" might refer to is a moot point. I believe the Raven does start saying king after Robb is crowned, but it could be as easily argued that it's pointing to Jon as the "real" king or some such.

Okay. Both are fair points.

By the way, I am closely following, and really enjoying, your Jon Snow reread project, even though I have not contributed so far. It is really great!

[Alia of the knife]

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The theory is at least a good reminder that Rhaegar had a capacity for singleminded-ness. The problem is, I suppose, that if his relationship to Lyanna was purely a calculation, it wouldn't change much about theories for reveals in later books...it would serve only to ensure that Rhaegar is remembered as a giant dickbag, and prove Lyanna's short life ended without a single shred of joy from her final months. I will hope this isn't the case.

Hopefully the fact that it was Rhaegar himself that gave the Tower it's name is an indication that this is not so.

Edit: Geez, what happened above? :blushing:

[Alia of the knife]

Problem is, the wildlings don't have laws, they just have customs. Those customs can't be just transposed into the 7K were there actually are laws on marriage. Not that Rhaegar or Lyanna would have even known wildling customs anyway. And north or south of the Wall, I believe a true marriage entails vows spoken before the gods, though which gods does not seem to matter so much.

The best reason for thinking Rhaegar and Lyanna married in front of a tree is that if they married, it was done secretly. Marriage by the Faith would have required a septon. Targaryen polygamy has to be the loophole by which the marriage would be valid under the laws of the 7K. Unless Elia had secretly sworn herself to the Faith I don't think Rhaegar and Elia had divorced, that seems possible only when one party of the marriage joins orders.

I do have to wonder, if R+L fell in love at Harrenhal and decided not to act on it then, why did the abduction happen when it did? Even Elia being unable to give more children wasn't news that required a hasty response. Rheagar's actions seem emotional and unplanned to me. If he took Lyanna because he had done the maths and realised he was a babe short he could still have been more considerate to the wife he at least had fondness for. From the R+E naming Aegon vision it seems Elia knew of the prophecy, could Rhaegar not have asked her to chose holy orders so he could father the third child after a conventional marriage? Because I think Rhaegar acted without thinking I`m going to suggest that the speculated Ashara/Elia baby switch did happen and that Rhaegar discovered it and, feeling betrayed, responded with uncharacteristic rashness.

I think you raise a good point on the latter.

And if there was such a switch, then divorce would make sense within the context of this theory as that would definitely be a an act of betrayal, if not treason. Certainly if Rhaegar took that issue before a great counsel, the Lords would understand as they would have similar concerns, but more than that, if there is no Heir, then there will be future succession fights, and more wars.

Perhaps he gave her the choice of becoming a Septa, or being set aside in the face of such a tactic, which any other Targaryen might have had her executed, so still merciful after a fashion.

I would not be surprised to learn that their marriage was under tremendous pressure over the issue of her fertility, and the ramifications of her poor health despite a fondness for her.

If Aegon is not his, he still needs and Heir, and the woman he would choose is probably about to be married. Given the incident at Harrenhal, I would assume that both Rickard and Robert would expedite things, so that is also a likely reason for his haste.