[All 5 book spoilers] Can we make guesses about books 6 & 7 from the TV show storylines?

[Khal Porno]

A couple of predictions based on the show, I think Dany doesn't sit on the iron throne, she does in Essos what Aegon the Conqueror did to Westeros and Jon Snow will sit on the throne when its all said and done.

How did you come to this conclusion based on the show?

[go joff go]

i thought in season 2 when Brienne said who wants to die for a Lannister she was foretelling how she dies

[Young Nan]

maybe this is sort of pessimistic, but I don't think we should regard ANY of the show developments as hints for the future of the books. The storylines from the book and from the show get further apart every season. I think people read into the show changes too much, thinking they areforeshadowing later book developments, when in actuality they are just due to D&D either saving money or exercising their own creative license.

[thewalkindude19]

Umm.. ..she killed the stable boy in Season One. Mind you that was more of an instinctive reaction. But she also killed a Harrenhal guard in Season Two and that one was planned and deliberate. She has already gone all murderous on the TV show.

Besides, seeing your own father beheaded and all the other death she's seen (Lommy for instance - his throat casually slit just out of convenience) it's pretty understandable that she have a pretty strong streak of revenge going on.

Actually, Arya didn't kill anyone personally in Harrenhal, to many people's annoyance.

[HouseLark]

As much as I dislike the idea of the TV show altering the things we've already read in the books, I absolutely abhor the idea that they might change things that we havent' yet read, not only on the screen but on the page.

Yeah, but if this is the case then you'll never know so no point worrying about it.

I actually think we can start piecing things together about the story from what we have seen on the show. The production team know the broad contours of the story so we'll end up with the same end points on both the books and show but some of the bumps in the road will be different. I think the show's HotU is an attempt to show us where the plot will end up even if many didn't like it.

[Khal Porno]

Generally speaking it would make me quite unhappy to think that the TV show is in any way an indication of how things are going to unfold in the last couple of books. For one, it opens up the possibility that GRRM is susceptible to altering his intended plot based on the sometimes hackish writing that we're seeing on the TV show. As much as I dislike the idea of the TV show altering the things we've already read in the books, I absolutely abhor the idea that they might change things that we havent' yet read, not only on the screen but on the page.

The show will not have any effect on Winds of Winter or Dream of Spring. Martin's already said as much.

Now, one suspicion I have based on the show (IF Talisa doesn't die at the Red Wedding or captured to replace Jeyne Poole) is that Talisa will take the place of a character from Volantis in The Winds of Winter whom we haven't met who will help Danaerys. Of course there is a good chance I'm wrong.

[Sun]

We didn't have any confirmation of Mel being wrong this early in the books, either. She had been spot on 'till this point, as far as we knew. In fact, it's not really until we get her POV that we really know just how much guessing she's doing.

Again. the book is not the show, characters are obviously different to various degrees between one and the other. . The show just had Mel magically learn Gendry's exact location through magic. She is obviously more potent than she is the in the books, even at this stage.

Also, "we'll meet again" is not a throw away line. The show wouldn't have one major character say such a thing to another major character unless there was something for them to fall back on that will fulfill it. Especially since the line is so unnecessary that they could have easily left it out. They put those words in Mel's mouth for a reason.

[Great Other's Disciple]

maybe this is sort of pessimistic, but I don't think we should regard ANY of the show developments as hints for the future of the books. The storylines from the book and from the show get further apart every season. I think people read into the show changes too much, thinking they areforeshadowing later book developments, when in actuality they are just due to D&D either saving money or exercising their own creative license.

I would really like to agree with you that we should keep the books and the TV show completely separated. Still, this is a very unique situation, in which a book series is being adapted to TV while the last books are still being written. So as several people have already said: D&D know the broad strokes of the overall story and know where the main characters are heading to in the long run. Therefore, TV scenes that are not in the books COULD very well be hints for future books. (Even though George has said several times that he wouldn't let the show influene him, but technically the show would just refer to story developments that he had been planning all along.)

Anyway, I love to speculate!

I think that Melisandres and Thoros meeting served to set up Jon being resurrected by Melisandre (or her at least trying) in "Winds of Winter".

I think (or rather HOPE) that Arya and Jon will be reunited at the Wall or somewhere in the North and this is where Arya and Melisandre will meet again.

Regarding Gendry probably taking Edric's place as would-be-sacrifice to the Red God: I'll just sit back and watch what happens, because I have no idea where this is going... :dunno:

P.S.: Hi there fellow ASOIAF fans! Happy to join the conversation!

[YouSnowNothing]

Who says Mel is never wrong in the show? She thinks that Stannis is Azor Ahai! She was wrong about the outcome of the Blackwater. It's the same as the books - sometimes she interprets things correctly, sometimes she gets it wrong.

[Master Forel's Fro]

Who says Mel is never wrong in the show? She thinks that Stannis is Azor Ahai! She was wrong about the outcome of the Blackwater. It's the same as the books - sometimes she interprets things correctly, sometimes she gets it wrong.

She's wrong about the most important issue stannis as AA then nothing else she says can be trusted.

[Mordos_Kull]

The big question is whether that "We will meet again line" implies that D+D are going to use the Fake Ayra plot, or is this something which is lined up for Book 6.

[boojam]

Hmmm. Bryan Cogman did reveal that he, Benioff and Weiss sat down with GRRM to discuss where the individual character arcs and plotlines were going, to assist them in planning. It's been confirmed that GRRM already told D&D "the ending," but it sounds like the conversation with Cogman was much more comprehensive and detailed. (I'm thinking the "ending" GRRM told D&D was in very broad strokes.)

I think the conversation with Cogman and D&D where GRRM laid out individual character arcs (post-ADWD, obviously) happened recently, though, as in 2013. If that's the case, we can't really read too much into Seasons 1-3. We can read a fair bit into what happens after Season 3. So I would start paying a good deal of attention to post-Season 3 changes. For example, if, say, the Hound dies at the end of the Hound/Arya arc in the show, that will send up a big red flag as to whether we can expect to see Sandor Clegane surface again in the books.

As for how much we can read into changes made to date? Eh, I dunno. I mean, Tyrion/Shae is super romantic in the show, but does anyone doubt that Shae is still going to come to a bad end, just as she did in the books? I mean, the "how" might be different, but the "what" (Shae dying) likely isn't. Ditto for Loras and Cersei's engagement. The "how" is different, but the outcome (Loras in the Kingsguard, Cersei unmarried) is very likely the same.

I doubt Melisandre would be given a line like "We'll meet again" if in fact she and Arya weren't going to meet again. I also doubt Willas and Garlan are going to be critical characters, given how the show has dealt with them to date.

As for Gendry/Melisandre, we should probably wait to see where Gendry ends up at the end of Season 3 before making predictions. If he ends up back in the Riverlands as a smith, then Edric is not important; if he ends up traveling like Edric, then Edric's important.

Yes, you are right. As Bryan mentioned in that recent lengthy interview and Q and A , he, Dave and Dan had meet with George in Santa Fe within the last two months. One notes had Dave and Dan had meet with George in Santa Fe , I am pretty sure before season 2. (Leaving out all the meetings and collaboration before season 1 and probably during season 1 when GRRM was on set.)

The dialog about eyes is foreshadowed in the books , tho taking the obvious interpretation is always dangerous with George.

The "We will meet again" is unusual and seems to mean something from the next two books. Those lines had to be written before season 3 so we don't know in what detail Dave and Dan know.

I think Gendry takes Edric's place and follows the Davos story in the book. Tho after that if they want to keep Gendry in the story line I think he's going to be sent to Braavos.

D&D have plenty of good material to construct a good season 4. I would bet HBO is thinking season 5 and D and D know.

But man!, can't push much of Swords into 5, how to construct a visual narrative using Crows and Dragons, is really going to take some work.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

Again, them having talks to discuss stuff with George doesn't mean anything. They might not want to deviate too much and keep close to the books, but they can always "bend" it back to arrive at the same point. Say, theoretically if they decide to kill Gendry in a Mel-sacrifice, that doesn't mean that Gendry has no story in the books later on. It meansthey merged his story with Edric Storm and changed it a bit,but they can introduce another character that takes over Gendrys importance later, maybe call that one Edric Storm, etc. ...

As someone pointed out, if the 'goal' is static, but the way can change, you can't see anything in how the way changes.

Take Mel's comment. Sure, that might mean that these two characters will meet later on and have a impact. But maybe the writers just wanted to give Mel a quote of the Ghost of High Heart, or they wanted to foreshadow Arya's turn to being a darker character, or they wanted to set up a connection to when Mel sees "Fake Fake Arya" (Alys Karstark) in the fires, or to reestablish Mels otherwordliness just after having shown her being amazed by Beric, or you know, they just thought it'd be a cool thing to do. Or there was a production issue and Mels' speech there was cut by three sentences? (unlikely, but there are changes that can stem from just production, i.e. there not being a tent scene at the Tourney of the hand in season 1 or how the Valyrian speech gets cut to make it sound better, even if that means cutting out whole sentences (that stay in the subtitles))

There are so many possibilities that I agree one can talk about these 'changes', but I sincerely don't believe you can deduce any lasting statements from them for the books.

[Widows_Blood]

How did you come to this conclusion based on the show?

Well I'm largely basing this off the books but I think the house of the undying scene in season 2 only cements this theory of mine. Example Dany turning away from the Iron Throne and it "snowing" in the throne room.

[Roberta Dyer]

If we are talking about the books only, Varys has made way for Aegon to take not only Storms End but Kings Landing by killing the one person who stands to hold the two families together against his Golden Company. The Red Woman trys to bring back Jon. Arya has been sent to Westeros on assignment but who is paying for who's deaths? Meanwhile Danny has retruned to Meereen with her massive Dothraki hord were Tyrion will be introduced by his connection to Barristan Selmy and Mormont. Who knows Westeros better to launch an invations? I could go on but I'll stop here.

[Rose-Papillon]

i thought in season 2 when Brienne said who wants to die for a Lannister she was foretelling how she dies

I thought that was referencing A Feast for Crows where Brienne almost dies for Jaime. If it weren't for Podrick and Hyle, I think she would have accepted her fate that day.

[boojam]

O yes and another thing Maisie Williams is now 16 will be 17 season 5, Isaac Hempstead Wright is on the verge of looking like a young adult.

To me physical appearance really does not impact the story, for me, but could impact dialog and the nature of the book characters, fine with me.

Way should have been in the books.

[boojam]

Well I'm largely basing this off the books but I think the house of the undying scene in season 2 only cements this theory of mine. Example Dany turning away from the Iron Throne and it "snowing" in the throne room.

That is the weirdest foreshadowing, if it is such.

Implication being WINTER did come and the Others trashed Westeros.

Not that that would be a surprise, GRRM has been setting that or something like it up over 5 books now.

[David Selig]

Yes, you can. They'd be mostly wrong, but hey, since when that's been stopping any of us? :cool4:

[six]

I thought that was referencing A Feast for Crows where Brienne almost dies for Jaime. If it weren't for Podrick and Hyle, I think she would have accepted her fate that day.

Yes, exactly. It's foreshadowing on how she shifts from "Who wants to die defending a Lannister?" to "I'll be ready to die defending a Lannister".

As for whether anything can be guessed on what's to come in the books... Yes and no. Mel telling Arya they'll meet again means they will. But is that in the books or the show? Because as faithful as they've been so far, we've had some departures and some interactions that did not exist in the books. So to guess would be mostly speculation. Not that it should stop you.