who is the hooded man in winterfell?

[Arya Weinergaryen]

Wasn't there recently a thread where it was theorized he was Hallis Mollen?

Hans Moleman.....?

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Benjen it is known .

[bemused]

Benjen is my bet... I think the HM a real person there to do something, but not the killings.

I don't buy "Theon Durden" for a number of reasons, the main one being that he doesn't truly display the signs of a dissociative state. He always knows he has a persona other than Reek. At first, we see he's in mortal fear of admitting it because Ramsay will punish him if he does. When expected to be "Reek" he has to pretend not to have any awareness of Theon. When allowed to be Theon, he definitely has a sense of self, and knows that "Reek" is a pretense. (We see this at WF and even at Moat Caillin.)

I disagree with the assertion (made by some, elsewhere) that he has a "black out" and I don't think he necessarily has any hallucinations. The only thing that suggests he might, would be momentarily seeing Bran's face on the heart tree - but where Bloodraven or the developing Bran come into the picture, I don't think we should make quick assumptions. BR says he can influence dreams, and Theon's mental defenses, or filters, are not what they could be.. Can we be sure BR / Bran are not able to cause him to see Bran?.. Should we assume Theon's not hearing Bran's voice, either ?

I agree that he becomes more confident in his Theon persona after meeting the HM , but sense a different reason behind it. It might easily be the effect of meeting someone he associates with his past life at WF, perhaps even more so, if it's someone reason would tell him is, or should be dead. Theon feels he is one of the ghosts in WF and that the ghosts know him. He doesn't really fear them. There would be no repercussions from Ramsay for showing his hand, and no additional shame in showing a ghost. I think the reason he doesn't mention the HM to Roose, even though he's under suspicion for the killings himself, is that he thinks the HM is a ghost. ...Benjen would not be the only candidate possible in this case, but I think he's the best.

I agree that Theon could have fathered the younger miller's boy.. but I don't think we have any clues to point to this.. it's just that it's not impossible. I think either too much is made of "kinslayer" , or OTOH, maybe not enough is made of it. What I mean is:

It's so often assumed that it must mean he actually is a kinslayer, therefore he must have fathered the child and that's why the HM uses the term.. ..Why? It could be a northerner who still believes he killed Bran and Rickon ..and there must be many. I think the northern leadership is pretty much in the know , but not everyone.

Now, consider the HM as Benjen : Going back to BJ's conversation with Jon at the WF feast, "there was always a hint of laughter in his blue-grey eyes." But it's a knowing, rueful, sort of ironic amusement he displays - Jon has noticed Cersei's anger at Robert visiting the crypts.. "You don't miss much, do you, Jon?"... in reply to Jon's talk of his hero The Young Dragon.."Someone should have told him that war isn’t a game.” ...“Also,” he said, wiping his mouth, “Daeren Targaryen was only eighteen when he died. Or have you forgotten that part?” ... Jon, wanting to join the NW,says he doesn't care that he hasn't known a woman...“You might, if you knew what it meant,” ...When he calls Jon "son" and Jon (drunk, and probably beginning to feel patronised) retorts that he isn't Ben's son... “More’s the pity.” He put a hand on Jon’s shoulder. “Come back to me after you’ve fathered a few bastards of your own, and we’ll see how you feel.”

To me, there's only a difference in intensity, and the type of emotion between Ben to Jon and the HM to Theon. The manner of speech is actually quite similar. Jon is an inebriated nephew Ben is fond of, so the sarcasm is light, a bit indulgent.... Now, if Ben's the HM -Theon has horribly wronged Ben's family, who had treated Theon very well.. to Ben's mind, like family .... and the ironic tone increases to sardonic, or mordant.

“False is all you were. How is it you still breathe?”.. Not a real question.. It expresses that there's something wrong with the world if Theon is still alive.

After Theon removes his glove and says Lord Ramsay is not finished with him... The man looked, and laughed. “I leave you to him, then.”

And coming back to the opening of the exchange.. The man put a hand on his dagger. “Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer.” .. Everyone calls him Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer is something more.

First of all, if the HM is Benjen, I'm sure he can hardly find an insult too vile for Theon.. But also, if he's there, then he no doubt was helped by the Children, as Bran suggested. (And I also suspect the whole Liddle/Bran encounter suggests he had contact with the clans). This would mean Benjen would have a pretty clear idea of what had gone on.

Many of us ( maybe most) would think Theon would have killed B & R , if he had caught them, and I think Ben would think so ,too. Theon's false claim of killing them, and not taking the chance to surrender to Rodrik Cassel greatly helped the Bolton cause. Roose recognises this , and so would Ben... Theon goes along with killing 2 children (bad enough) .. then, makes it worse by mis-identifying them. I think all this would be more than enough cause for Benjen to use "Theon KInslayer" in a tone of such contempt and to give a bitter laugh.

Oh, he would know the distinctions between family / ward / hostage.. but his emotions would be such that he'd want to use the worst , most hurtful term possible. He wouldn't hold back because it's a stretch.

I think that's quite enough to explain the usage, but IF, by chance there's anything to the business of the miller's son, having been in touch with The Children, Benjen very well might know.

If it's Benjen (helped by BR/CoTF) that implies he's there because there is a fundamental importance to "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell".

On a related note, I think he's the one person, as a former Stark in Winterfell, who could draw the various pockets of resistance into some form of cohesive whole.

[Sir Bronn]

Every time I see the Hooded Man mentioned I think of Robin Hood. Ya, wrong story.

I always imagined Howland Reed as someone who looks similar to Robin Hood.Green coat with the hood.

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/197/7/8/howland_reed_by_rogue_spectrum-d6dqhnr.jpg

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/2/2f/Howland_Reed_by_Sir_Heartsalot.jpg/250px-Howland_Reed_by_Sir_Heartsalot.jpg

He looks like Robin Hood.

It's Luwin. Luwin has a (very rare) valyrian steel link from the Citadel, from studies in the occult and magic, while insisting he doesn't believe in Nan's old stories. A maester is sworn to their castle. He "died" off screen, supposedly under the heart tree, and there is no mention of his bones being found by any of the later invaders of Winterfell.

Theon qwould recognize him and i think it's someone more important

[bemused]

Although I think its Benjen, I have a fondness for the Luwin suggestion. (He was injured pretty badly though, I don't know if he'd be "striding" anywhere) . Theon saw him speared and ridden over, so I'm sure he thinks Luwin is now a ghost, too.( like Benjen)

We don't know what happened to Old Nan for sure, either. We're told all the women were traipsed off to the Dreadfort, but they might have missed one old woman - they would have no idea of her importance to the Starks. She would neither be bed warmer material (AFAIK) or suited to hard work... I wonder if she knew anything about healing ... ;)

A-a-a-and we don't really know what Luwin asked of Osha....

I'm playing, here.. because these suggestions ,too, fall into the category of not impossible .. but they don't have any other hints or clues to support them (yet), that I can see... Still I'd like to think Luwin could have survived to discover he was right about magic in his youth, after all. Magic that didn't work then, might work now (Physician heal thyself?) Imagine his awe... And who doesn't love Old Nan and want her to continue telling stories ?

[bent branch]

More importantly, "Arya" is getting married. Yes, I also think it's Harwin. I also think he might have killed Little (or was it Big) Walder (Frey), and/or caused the collapsing of the stables (he was the son of the horsemaster). But the last two needn't be true for Harwin to fit best. IMO that is.

My thinking has been all over the place with the HM, but recently I have read things that make me agree with you that the HM is Harwin.

1. At first I didn't think there was a way for someone from the south to get through the Neck undetected. Then I realized that Lady Stoneheart had opened a "back door" through the Neck, so now I am open to the idea that HM comes from the south.

2. I noticed in a re-read that Harwin was thought to be dead by the people in Winterfell before Robb even went south. This makes Theon's "strange" lack of fear make sense if Theon is thinking he is seeing a dead man.

3. Theon and Harwin would know each other very well since they grew up together in Winterfell. Also, the last time they saw each other they were grown men. Harwin didn't recognize Arya immediately, but she had been a younger child when he saw her last and she was dressed as a boy.

4. Harwin had been with Lady Stoneheart. He could have gotten not only his instructions to head north from Lady Stoneheart, but she could have told him how to get through the passage in crypts (which I am convinced exist).

5. Harwin would not be so familiar to the lords and lady within Winterfell because he had been a servant's kid. Only someone who spent a lot of time at Winterfell would probably be familiar with him on sight and most of the lords and lady currently in Winterfell only visited Winterfell occasionally.

6. Harwin was meeting Lady Dustin. I was at first sure whoever HM was he must be meeting Manderly, but it was Dustin who opened the crypts so she is probably who he was meeting. Also, Barrowton is the most likely place that someone coming through the "back door" of the Neck would go to first.

7. Harwin's personality that we see when he is interacting with Arya would be compatible with the personality of the HM.

8. Harwin would not be squeamish in killing a child if that child saw him coming out of the crypts. This is most certainly what happened. Where Little Walder's body was found is directly across from the entrance to the crypts. Even if Little Walder ran off and just tried to tell people the dead were rising, he would be raising an alarm.

So, all in all, I think you have been right to be so consistant in supporting Harwin for HM.

What I didn't get is why the HM was surprised to see Theon.

Its not like it was a secret he was there. Everyone saw the wedding.

Its not that I am against mystery men just being random dudes as i think coldhands is just some guy, but I get the feeling that the Hooded Man is somebody and somebody who may have literally JUST snuck into the castle when he saw Theon.

Way i sees it it must be Davos, Blackfish, (both accomplished sneakers) or Hal (a guy who knows Winterfell well).

I don't see how it could be Davos just timewise, and I doubt Septon Chale has gone hardass (although that would be cool) so my vote is the Black Fish. We all know that guy has some serious ass kicking yet to do and assuming he met up with Cats zombie she would want her daughter back whom talk would have put at Winterfell.

Yes, exactly. As you can see above I disagree about who HM is, but the point you make about HM's surprise at seeing Theon most definitely indicates he has just arrived in Winterfell.

What frustrates me the most about HM discussions is when people try to pin the murders on this man, whoever he is. Yet we have the spearwives admitting to most of the murders and evidence for Little Walder strongly pointing to Big Walder. Which means this guy, whoever he is, never killed anyone. Which means, whatever role he has in this, it's something other than the murders. The only tangible effect the hooded man had (unless he pops up again in the next book) is the aforementioned psychological breakthrough of Theon. Which makes the entire thing being Theon's tortured subconscious a more attractive option.

I hope you understand when I say it is extremely frustrating to me when people try to say that Big Walder is the one who killed Little Walder when the clues are actually pointing away from Big Walder. Look at the scene described.

Snow slid from Ser Hosteen's cloaks as he stalked toward the high table, his steps ringing against the floor. A dozen Frey knights and men-at-arms entered behind him. One was a boy Theon knew--Big Walder, the little one, fox-faced and skinny as a stick. His chest and arms and cloak were spattered with blood.

The scent of it set the horses to screaming. Dogs slid out from under the tables, sniffing. Men rose from the benches. The body in Ser Hosteen's arms sparkled in the torchlight, armored in pink frost. The cold outside had frozen his blood.

...The boy's gloves were caked with his cousin's blood.

...Hosteen Frey's sword was red almost to the hilt. Blood spatters speckled his cheeks like freckles.

First, look at the sentences highlighted in red. If the room is warm enough to be melting the snow from Hosteen's cloak, then the room should be warm enough to melt the frost on Little Walder's body. The only reason the frost would persist is if Walder's body is very cold. This means that Little Walder has been dead for hours. If the blood on Big Walder had come from killing Little Walder, then Big Walder has been walking around covered with his cousin's blood for hours. So, let's say that BW had killed LW hours ago and had gone and changed his clothing. He would still be covered in LW's blood from digging LW out of the blood soaked snowbank. So, either way the blood on BW says nothing about his guilt.

Now look at the sentences highlighted in blue. We see that the blood on BW was on his gloves, arms, chest and cloak. Exactly where we would expect to see it if BW had dug LW out of a blood soaked snowbank. The blood in the snow would have melted on BW leaving only the blood visibly behind. Compare this with Hosteen who has just been wildly fighting and killing people. He is so spattered with blood that his face looks like it has freckles. If BW had killed LW, then the blood should have been more widely spattered than just the discrete areas already mentioned.

So, without any valid evidence against BW and Theon having a strange encounter with a man who appeared to have just arrived and who was quick to reach for his dagger, I am inclined to believe it was the HM who killed LW.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I hope you understand when I say it is extremely frustrating to me when people try to say that Big Walder is the one who killed Little Walder when the clues are actually pointing away from Big Walder. Look at the scene described.

I don't give a damn how frustrating it is for you. What you're arguing doesn't make much sense.

1. It doesn't say the snow is melting from the cloak, only sliding. Which it would do anyway just by virtue of him, you know, moving.

2. You never really explain the most important word in your quoted material, and that's spattered. Spattered implies movement, a spray or fluidity. A splash. Read: the word spattered implies that the blood was still fluid/moving (not frozen) when it got on Big Walder.

3. Even if you're arguing that the blood on Big Walder is the frozen blood that is now melting, how did so much frozen blood get on him that he appears spattered with it? How much physical contact do you really think he's having with this dead body? And isn't it odd that Hosteen isn't described as being covered in blood in that scene, only Big Walder, despite the fact that he's the one carrying the body? If the blood had melted enough to cover Big Walder, why isn't it also on Hosteen?

4. The blood of Little Walder is STILL frozen when he's brought into the hall. It's sparkling and "armored in pink frost." If it had melted enough to leave Big Walder spattered in blood, wouldn't there be visual evidence of that when they brought him into the hall?

5. I think you're underestimating how quickly blood and a body would freeze in that level of cold, especially after being shoved in a snowbank. I don't think it would take hours.

6. Hosteen's speckles came from fighting multiple grown men, with a lot of movement from using his sword. So obviously his blood marking will be different than what you'd see on someone who had killed one person, a child, not knowing how the killing was done. And I'm not sure how you could have missed this, but it also uses the word "spatter" to describe fresh blood. Hosteen isn't said to be spattered in blood after finding a dead body in a snow bank. It's actually a verbal clue in my favor: the spattered blood on Big Walder was also fresh, just like the blood spattered on Hosteen after the fight was fresh.

7. It is hilarious that Big Walder had motive, proximity (how coincidental that the body is buried in a snow bank and yet he's the one who finds it) and the means, and yet you say the hooded man did it, despite having no discernible motive (since we don't know who he even is) and the evidence pointing to him is nothing more than "lol idk he's all mysterious and shit." Big Walder is also savvy enough to throw the blame on the White Harbor men, knowing tensions are high and that the Boltons and Freys will take the opportunity to blame Manderly's men and thus not actually investigate the crime.

ETA: And I feel like I say this in every HM discussion, but ... Theon and the HM do see each other and they look each other in the eye. So I don't think it would be Benjen, Luwin, Harwin or anyone else from Winterfell, given that Theon would, you know, recognize them if he looked them in the eye.

[TheHouseHB]

6. Harwin was meeting Lady Dustin. I was at first sure whoever HM was he must be meeting Manderly, but it was Dustin who opened the crypts so she is probably who he was meeting. Also, Barrowton is the most likely place that someone coming through the "back door" of the Neck would go to first.

If the hooded man was meeting Lady Dustin than I feel that shows me the hooded man could be Benjen/Blackfish. I feel that way because in the crypts she tells Theon all of her favorite Starks are dead Ned and Brandon Stark. Basically saying that all her most hated Starks are dead. So maybe she was letting if someone was in the Crypts besides Dustin/Theon like Benjen/Blackfish know she would have no problem switching sides for Jon/Rickon as the new King in the North.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

If the hooded man was meeting Lady Dustin than I feel that shows me the hooded man could be Benjen/Blackfish.

So why doesn't Theon recognize Benjen or the Blackfish when he looks this guy in the eye?

[Mithras]

So why doesn't Theon recognize Benjen or the Blackfish when he looks this guy in the eye?

I think the person he saw was a dead person as far as he knew. He said Winterfell was full of ghosts and he called the Hooded Man a night-walker. In his dream, Robb's ghost came walking out of the night.

So, he didnot give the name this "dead" person.

One can also ask why did not George give the name of the woman Rhaegar whispered as he died in the HotU sequence.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think the person he saw was a dead person as far as he knew. He said Winterfell was full of ghosts and he called the Hooded Man a night-walker. In his dream, Robb's ghost came walking out of the night.

So, he didnot give the name this "dead" person.

One can also ask why did not George give the name of the woman Rhaegar whispered as he died in the HotU sequence.

Still doesn't explain why he wouldn't recognize the person he saw if he did indeed know them, whether he thought they were dead or not. Benjen would presumably look like Benjen whether he was alive or a "ghost." He sees Robb's ghost in dreams but he still identifies the ghost as Robb.

And the Rhaegar parallel is a bad one considering it's part of a longer-term mystery, which I highly doubt the hooded man is. Which goes back to my earlier question: What is the fucking point of smuggling Benjen/Harwin/Luwin/whoever into Winterfell if they 1. are never able to be identified and 2. make no discernible impact on the story apart from encountering Theon. Is someone in WoW going to stand up and declare "I was the hooded man!" Obviously not.

[Clegane'sPup]

ADwd pg 611

The man with the hooded cloak flapping behind him, knew Theon. Theon did not know the man with the hooded cloak flapping behind him.

[Lord Reaper oOo]

what if the HM is using a glamour?

[Clegane'sPup]

what if the HM is using a glamour?

I understand that is your question but would you care to elaborate :dunno:

[Buried Treasure]

There are two ways the 'how is it you still live?' question can be taken.

One is 'I thought you were dead! How come you survived?'

The second is ' by what justice are you still alive after all you have done'. That is the question that it seems to me Theon was answering, it is justice (from a northman's perspective) because Theon is suffering. I don't see that the HM was uninformed that Theon was alive.

Maybe the HM was slightly suprised to run into Theon outside. It was a stormy night and everybody in Winterfell knew Theon Greyjoy had no duties that would take him outside, that is why the Lords questioned him about why he went out (maybe the HM was the one to report that to them?). OTOH there are legitimate reasons a member of the garrison might have been outside and headed for the Great Hall - he could have just left a barracks or be a sergeant who was coming from checking the sentries on the walls. What he was definitely not doing was committing murder as none of the killings happened on that night.

[bemused]

Apple Martini , bent branch , TheHouseHB , et al ..

I think Theon does recognise the HM. GRRM never says Theon doesn't recognise him ( He often doesn't mention everything a character is thinking) ... and if we look again at the language of the encounter...

“The gods are not done with me,” Theon answered, wondering if this could be the killer, the

night walker who had stuffed Yellow Dick’s cock into his mouth and pushed Roger Ryswell’s groom off the battlements. Oddly, he was not afraid. He pulled the glove from his left hand. “Lord Ramsay is not done with me.”

The man looked, and laughed...etc.

Night walker or nightwalker can be one way to describe a ghost , or something supernatural, and Theon already is aware of supernatural beings in WF. "Oddly, he was not afraid.".. He hasn't been afraid of the ghosts ( or the gods) so far..just aware of them. But people generally view ghosts as something to be afaid of. So, this is odd. Next, Theon removes his glove, without even being asked to. He has been afraid or ashamed to display his injuries to people before, and will be again, later in the chapter. Why not now ? (I've already said why I don't accept "Theon Durden)

When Theon first hears his name in the godswood , he thinks it's "A god’s voice, or a ghost’s." Next, "a sudden gust pushed back his hood, as if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers, hungry to gaze upon his face." The HM gazes on his face ,later ... and someone who died beyond the wall would have frozen fingers.

Twice, he thinks, "There are ghosts in Winterfell, and I am one of them." - once, just before going to the crypts with Barbrey and once when she notices the first missing sword. This establishes a fellowship with the ghosts... again, making fear unnecessary.

After meeting the HM, when Holly finds him in the godswood later that night, she asks who he's talking to. ... “The ghosts,” he blurted. “They whisper to me. They … they know my name.” He uses the plural forms , but we know Bran is the only "ghost" he's identified as speaking to him ... unless we include the HM. Then the plural fits.. Some people have said I'm picking nits about this.. but I think one often has to with GRRM's writing.

I have to say that by calling the HM "the man" and having Theon wonder, "if this could be the killer" does nothing to ID the man ... but I think that's the author's way of obscuring the HM's ID until he's ready to reveal it. I definitely think we'll see more of him.

I firmly agree with Apple's points about the the Walders and the blood..

..But I think Ramsay is doing the killings ( not spearwives) - all except for Little Walder's. ( Theon's first thought about the killings identifies Ramsay as the culprit - I think correctly) ... I believe Roose has figured this out, as well. In the killings, we see a struggle for authority between father and son.

All of Ramsay's men are really Roose's men ... except the two Walders, who came under Ramsay's control at the sack of WF. ...Little Walder is not controlled by Roose and (much more so than Big Walder) has become an eager follower and emulator of Ramsay. ( And LW is ahead of BW in the Frey succession - a point of contention between the two.)

I think the breakdown goes something like this :

1) "Roose is not pleased." by the killings , or by "Arya's" weeping.

2) Roose tries to send a message to "cool it" to Ramsay regarding "Arya" ,through Barbrey and Theon (probably to avoid an outright confrontation). I think he would have done the same about the killings, but (probably) through Yellow Dick.

3) Ramsay (probably helped by LW) "does for" YD , then directly disobeys Roose by making a big deal of YD's death, when Roose ordered everyone to keep quiet.. (Thus keeping up the heat under the Frey / Manderly pressure cooker).

4) Roose decides to remove the last possible true Ramsay acolytes , by killing LW and by using BW to do it.

5) He also decides to let off steam between the Freys and Manderly - and if it means sacrificing one of them , better it should be Manderly, who he trusts the least.- So he supplies BW with the gambling story. (I agree BW is savvy , but he is still a child, and I think it would have been difficult to carry it all out on his own.. Let's not forget that although Big Walder is slightly older, Little Walder is actually bigger. The body is described as having been "butchered" , yet apart from the blood, BW shows no signs of being involved in a struggle (no scratches, cuts, bruises, rent clothing, etc.). This might suggest that someone was holding LW at the time.)

6) BW is kept indoors until the time is right for him to "discover" the body. (Hence the "caked" blood - not frozen, but congealed.)

7) When the letter from Tybald arrives, Roose seizes the opportunity to push the Frey / Manderly mayhem outside of WF.

Roose may have offered to help BW climb the Frey ladder of succession , but BW would be attracted to the one-upmanship of being Roose's "boy" over Ramsay's, anyway. ( He's not the most disagreeable Frey we've met, but he's still a Frey).

Remember Theon's reaction when Roose started being "nice" to him? ... “I mean you no harm, you know. I owe you much and more.”

“You do?” Some part of him was screaming, This is a trap, he is playing with you, the son is just the shadow of the father..... Remember Roose's treatment of the squatters ? (Work for mercy, but the mercy was hanging instead of flaying) ...I think BW has made a deal with the devil.

Re: Harwin - I've seen Harwin as a possible candidate in the past.. except that I don't know how he would have got inside. I also beleive that there's an entrance / exit hidden in the crypts, but I don't think Cat could possibly know about it... Such passages would be kept very, very secret - as a valuable escape route in times of seige or invasion. I think it's been forgotten, because... If Ned knew , he would have told Cat when he left .. if she knew, she would have told Robb when she left ... Robb would have told Bran.. or because Bran was crippled and a child .. Robb would have told Luwin (possibly both). If they knew, it would have been used to get the heirs out of there, at the first opportunity after Theon took the castle... and it never was. ..This would be a problem for the Blackfish as HM as well.

I think Barbrey Dustin is lying about her hatred of Starks ( except, probably, Lord Rickard ) and she has never been on Roose's side (who, I think, she really blames for Domeric's death .. and possibly, her sister's, too.)

This is all part of why I think the HM is Benjen. He's the one who would have the fewest barriers to being the HM, who would be the most likely to have the trust and support of the other northern lords, but on the face of things , he's lost beyond the wall. ..(How completely can we trust what's on the face of things in GRRM's writing?)

So. Barbrey opens the doors to the crypts. she's interested in the swords. She's interested in the staircase "spiralling" down to the lower levels. Afterwards, the HM appears.... and there are some other interesting questions ... Who re-buried the doors to the crypts after Bran and the others left them open ...and why ? Why does GRRM have Theon bring up the tactics of attacking / defending on a spiral staircase, just before he and Jeyne escape ?... Think of the Black Gate. Only a brother of the NW can find it or open it.. but once it's open , other people who have not taken the oath can pass through... Think of the fact that Manderly has ferried fighters up the White Knife before ( when Cassel leads an army against Torrhen's Square)... Think of the passion of the northmen as expressed by the Wull wanting to bathe in Bolton Blood and lick it fom his lips .

I truly think GRRM's building toward something here.. that only Benjen could facilitate.

[Kingmonkey]

It's so often assumed that it must mean he actually is a kinslayer, therefore he must have fathered the child and that's why the HM uses the term.. ..Why? It could be a northerner who still believes he killed Bran and Rickon ..and there must be many. I think the northern leadership is pretty much in the know , but not everyone.

"Kinslayer" is exactly why I think the most likely HM is Theon Durden. I would go for a Theon Durden lite though -- I don't think he's dissociating and running around plotting and murdering in a schizoid fugue, I think he's seeing himself more and more as the Ghost in Winterfell, and is briefly meeting the Ghost of Theon Past.

The problem with a Northerner who thinks that he killed Bran and Rickon is that they aren't actually Theon's kin. Theon is brought up as a brother to them, but the only person we see thinking of Theon as being their brother is Theon himself. The Ghost of Theon Past would make the mistake of calling him a kinslayer, because Theon of old pretty much needed to remind himself that he wasn't actually one of the Stark kids when he was reacting emotionally.

[bemused]

As it happens,I don't think it was a northerner who believes the boys are dead ( but some people still might, and I think that view is at least as reasonable as Theon Durden).. As I said, my vote goes to Benjen (until anything new comes to light), who, if he's there, knows full well that they are alive.. He knows how Theon was treated by the Starks.. and would also have utter contempt for a man who would let himself be thought to be a kinslayer , which allows the Boltons to falsify their claim to Winterfell.

Theon doesn't just think of himself as a brother, he says it... and while he may be the only person who voices the thought that Ned was a second father and Robb a brother to him , none of the Starks present at the time, nor Luwin, nor Roderik Cassel , nor anyone else, correct him on that ,or say he shouldn't think it . They must more or less agree.

[MyLittleFinger]

The Hooded Man is Jaime Lannister on his way to murder Jon Snow for Lady Stoneheart.

[DireWolfSpirit]

As mentioned by an earlier poster.

The most intrigueing aspect for me( for this chapter) is the unaccounted for missing sword(s) from the crypt.

We know some are with Brans party and we know Osha has one as well. But there is

one or more swords, missing and unaccounted for, from the Wintell crypt.

The author includes this information because it's going to play an important role later imo.

I'll be damn if i'm sure who the hm is or even if it's an aspect of Theon's tenuous grasp on sanity.

I don't think I trust Theons thoughts to be any sort of gospel, he seems too ,

"one foot in the grave", so to speak?