Is Dawn Lightbringer?

[Facebookless Man]

there is no Lightbringer goddammit

it's a goddamn legend

[Borsabil]

Here is what we know:

"In ancient books of Asshai it is written that there will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

"The pages told of Azor Ahai. Lightbringer was his sword. Tempered with his wife’s blood if Votar can be belived. Thereafter Lightbringer was never cold to the touch, but warm as Nissa Nissa had been warm. In battle the blade burned fiery hot. Once Azor Ahai fought a monster. When he thrust the sword through the belly of the beast, its blood began to boil. Smoke and steam poured from its mouth, its eyes melted and dribbled down its cheeks, and its body burst into flame."

And we also have the history of the forging of Lightbringer as told by Salladhor Saan and the partial tale of the Last Hero recounted by Old Nan.

You could interpret all of that metaphorically and it'd work. These are barely remembered events that happened thousands of years ago, garbled up in myth and bullshit. We have no idea where Martin is going with this, whether it just be a fairy story, if it has meaning and there is some magic sword out there, or if 'Lightbringer' is, as has been theorized, the Nights Watch or someone/something else. I'm hoping for the latter I guess, and I'm thinking George wont go down the route of an actual literal burning sword, as he's already exposed the conjuring trick that Mel gave Stannis I'm thinking so.

[nival]

I just thought about - lucifer - "the morning star" - "light bringer" - dawn - being connected and not clearly evil or good has something to do with GRRM inspirations. Don't know if this has been discussed somewhere here already but i find it quite interesting. So i'll take the Light-bringer is Dawn board.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer from here

Lucifer (/ˈluːsɪfər/ or /ˈljuːsɪfər/) is the King James Version rendering of the Hebrew word הֵילֵל in Isaiah 14:12.^[1] This word, transliterated hêlêl^[1] or heylel,^[2] occurs only once in the Hebrew Bible^[1] and according to the KJV-influenced Strong's Concordance means "shining one, morning star, Lucifer".^[2] The word Lucifer is taken from the Latin Vulgate,^[3] which translates הֵילֵל as lucifer,^{[Isa 14:12][4][5]} meaning "the morning star, the planet Venus", or, as an adjective, "light-bringing".^[6] TheSeptuagint renders הֵילֵל in Greek as ἑωσφόρος^{[7][8][9][10][11]} (heōsphoros),^[12][13][14] a name, literally "bringer of dawn", for the morning star.^[15]

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I don't believe that Dawn is AAR's LB, but I think that it could be AA's LB. Dawn is currently in Starfall.

[thewingedwolf]

I personally don't think Dawn is Lightbringer for the following reasons:

1. Dawn is said to be pale as milk glass and alive with light, however, there is no mention of Dawn emanating heat. When Stannis is at the wall, Maester Aemon is very clear that the real lighbringer "radiated heat" (this was the same reason why Maester Aemon dismissed Stannis's sword as lightbringer).

2. The legend of Azor Ahai alledgedly happened about 8,000 years before Aegon's Landing, whereas I recall Martin mentioning that Dawn was over 10,000 years old.

3. I think the legend of Azor Ahai is metaphorical, symbolizing that no great victory can be achieved without great sacrifice.

[Ghost's Shadow]

1. You honestly believe that if Dawn radiated heat we would have heard of it by now? That kills a mystery, you know.

2. The Starks are supposedly 8,000 years old, the Daynes 10,000. Dawn is older than 2,000 but they 'don't know any more' how old it truly is. I think there's a few people that doubt the Wall is 8,000 years old. It's difficult to pinpoint exactly because there was no writing as they know it now in Westeros. There's mentions of knights before there were even knights, etc.

[The Mountain That Flies]

Is there ever any explicit mention of the origins of House Dayne? Obviously exact dates are hard to come by in Westerosi history, but even an allegory could help.

[Buckthorn]

Will Edric Dayne be worthy of wielding it and become The Sword of the Morning?

[Wouter]

I'm going with Longclaw.

Seconded. If lightbringer will appear as an actual sword, Longclaw is in the right place and it was "pulled from a fire by a warrior" (the fire being the commanders tower going down).

[Arya kiddin']

Seconded. If lightbringer will appear as an actual sword, Longclaw is in the right place and it was "pulled from a fire by a warrior" (the fire being the commanders tower going down).

It's all a matter of interpretation. How do you define a warrior? Can a smith be one? In thst case any sword can be lightbringer as a smith pulls it out from literal fire (weak argument yes, but there it is). And Longclaw wasn't tempered by killing someone precious.

It makes much more sense for the Lightbringer to be metaphorical. I believe it's the Night's Watch.

[Wouter]

We don't know when or where Longclaw was forged; it could be the old lightbringer (assuming this ever existed).

A smith is not a warrior, unless he does fight (like gendry). As a rule, smiths don't because they are too valuable.

If lightbringer is methaphorically, then dany's dragons are the obvious candidate. Maybe both could be true; the old and the new lightbringer

[Ser Greg of House House]

I believe Dawn was the first Lightbringer.

I have the idea (not a theory, there's no evidence) that Dawn was forged from the fire of a wild dragon.

[King of Winters]

Will Edric Dayne be worthy of wielding it and become The Sword of the Morning?

I don't think Edric will be worthy enough to wield it by the end, as he's still quite young to be worthy of wielding such a sword.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Edric simply doesn't have the correct age. Maybe with the 5 year time gap he could have wielded it (although some people speculate that Darkstar will steal it), but now he'd have to be a super-talented swordsman and he's not shown us that.

There is the question of why including him at all, and why have him know about Jon. Is it to spice up the 'Who's Jon's mother' story, or is it more? Will he bring Dawn to Jon?

We can speculate all we like, but there won't be an answer until the book is on our hands.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Edric simply doesn't have the correct age. Maybe with the 5 year time gap he could have wielded it (although some people speculate that Darkstar will steal it), but now he'd have to be a super-talented swordsman and he's not shown us that.

There is the question of why including him at all, and why have him know about Jon. Is it to spice up the 'Who's Jon's mother' story, or is it more? Will he bring Dawn to Jon?

We can speculate all we like, but there won't be an answer until the book is on our hands.

Maybe that's the reason for (purple font) Darkstar's existence--no five year gap and GRRM needed Edric to grow up faster? Just thinking out loud...

[J. Stargaryen]

From a thread of mine:

Let's revisit the creation myth of the original Lightbringer from ACoK, Davos I:

“A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade, and as it glowed white-hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. ‘Nissa Nissa’ he said to her, for that was her name, ‘bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.’ She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.

So, Lightbringer was tempered in the heart of Nissa Nissa.

Dawn, we are told, was forged from the heart of a fallen star. ACoK, Bran III:

“The finest knight I ever saw was Ser Arthur Dayne, who fought with a blade called Dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star.

Dawn is the original Lightbringer, imo.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I'm sure Dawn is significant, but I don't think it's Lightbringer. Seems a bit too on the nose, and I also don't believe we're looking at a literal sword.

Still think it's the Night's Watch, at least this time around and maybe the last time around, too.

[Castellan]

I think Dawn is a red herring and that Oathkeeper, weilded by an undead Brienne, will be lightbringer, but I have put this idea in a new thread.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/98023-lady-brienne-of-tarth-sword-of-the-evening/