Breaking Bad - Final Season - The Fall of the Empire - Spoilers

[Mya Stone]

Hank calling Marie actually made me think there is a chance Hank doesn't bite it. It just seemed such obvious set up that it might be a fake out...no idea how that could work though.

I've seen people saying this, as well, but, in my opinion, there is about as much ambiguity about Hank and Gomie's fate as there was Jesse shooting Gale.

It's what happens to Walt and Jesse from here that is the true cliffhanger. I can not see Walt cooking for the Nazis after they blatantly ignored Walt's pleas to not take action.

[Horza]

Hank was a goner the moment he mentioned little Susie.

[Mark Antony]

Poor Huell will be stuck in that Hotel room forever if Hang and Gomie don't come back. :(

[TheEvilKing]

Not sure what the bullets are supposed to represent. Anyone catch what colour bullets they were using? I suspect the Nazis were using black bullets which represent evil.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Not sure what the bullets are supposed to represent. Anyone catch what colour bullets they were using? I suspect the Nazis were using black bullets which represent evil.

Why would white supremacists use black bullets?

[RumHam]

Repost from the last thread.

The WS have overtaken all that. For starters, they have very little, if any personality. They have taken up very little development time and instead they are doing INCREDIBLY POWERFUL things. When they were introduced it was as a bunch of "second story men" who ripped off people. But that almost instantly morphed into this uber-powerful killing organization that apparently knows no bounds. They were able to somehow pull off multiple killings at separate maximum security prisons using, apparently, guys that were such great criminals that ... they were all already in prison... This killing was so incredible that it made the news.

I'm gonna wait till the shows over before judging the quality of the final season, but I do wanna address this because you're not the first person I've seen make this mistake. Todd worked for the pest control company that Walt and Jessie were using as a cover to cook last season. His uncle and the other white supremacists did not. The only connection between Vamanos pest control and these guys and their organization is Todd.

Edit: for the record I like the introduction of the Nazi's (as opposed to say having the cartel reappear.) Say what you will about the tenants of national socialism, at least it's an ethos.

[Mya Stone]

Repost from the last thread.

I'm gonna wait till the shows over before judging the quality of the final season, but I do wanna address this because you're not the first person I've seen make this mistake. Todd worked for the pest control company that Walt and Jessie were using as a cover to cook last season. His uncle and the other white supremacists did not. The only connection between Vamanos pest control and these guys and their organization is Todd.

Exactly.

I wanted to address that, too. To me, I find the Nazis to be the complete antithesis to what Gus was, and I think that's important. Gus was methodical; he went into the meth cooking business looking at is as a business. A way to make money. But ultimately, he was driven by revenge. He played a long game to finally exact his revenge on the cartel.

The Nazis are opportunists. They did not enter the meth trade having done their research, they fell into it with Todd. That's not to say they weren't a complete organization. Of course they were. But they weren't part of the meth world, and it's showing in how they're conducting their business.

I think it's a well-drawn comparison. If Walt had sacrificed Jesse, he would have never been caught up in this. But since Gus's empire fell, it's been a chaotic descent into hell.

[Independent George]

I could believe the firefight lasting as long as it did if Hank or Gomez fired first and started moving for cover immediately. It's easy to hit a stationary target when set up comfortably on a shooting range; it's much harder to hit a moving target shooting at you while your hands are shaking from the adrenaline.

The problem is that the nazis fired first. With a rifle. Centered on a stationary target standing out in the open. And unlike a lot of other movies/tv shows, he actually used the gunsights! (In contrast to Todd, who was firing vaguely in their direction; I doubt he would have hit anything from half the distance). Whoever that first Nazi shot at should have been hit and dropped immediately - even military-issue body armor with ceramic inserts won't stop a 5.56mm round at that range.

After the first shot is fired, then it's pandemonium, and it's perfectly believable that nobody got hit once it erupted. That's a surprisingly common outcome in firefights even among trained soldiers.

There's a reason why the M16A2 doesn't go full-auto; it's set at a 3-round burst because anything more tends to be a waste of ammo. Full auto is generally reserved for machine guns (like the M60 Walt eventually buys), which are (1) heavier, (2) typically mounted on bipods or tripods, (3) crew served, (4) used primarily for suppression fire, and (5) still intended to fire on controlled bursts instead of rock & roll.

Why does it matter? Because of the style of the show. Mike's suppressed pistol still sounded like an actual gunshot instead of the 'fwip fwip' hollywood silencer. When Hank killed Tuco, he went through PTSD; when he later got shot, he had to go through months of excruciating physical therapy just to get partial mobility back. Walt's cactus battery was actually made by the production crew.

If I were watching NCIS, then I wouldn't think twice about the firefight. Because it's Breaking Bad, they spent five years building up (and earning) my high expectations.

[Rockroi]

I wanted to address that, too. To me, I find the Nazis to be the complete antithesis to what Gus was, and I think that's important. Gus was methodical; he went into the meth cooking business looking at is as a business. A way to make money. But ultimately, he was driven by revenge. He played a long game to finally exact his revenge on the cartel.

The Nazis are opportunists. They did not enter the meth trade having done their research, they fell into it with Todd. That's not to say they weren't a complete organization. Of course they were. But they weren't part of the meth world, and it's showing in how they're conducting their business.

I think it's a well-drawn comparison. If Walt had sacrificed Jesse, he would have never been caught up in this. But since Gus's empire fell, it's been a chaotic descent into hell.

Yeah, but merely because something is "opposite" does not make it interesting or proportional. The White Supremacists are not at all interesting; they are far more bland, nameless and shapeless. But they are as effective as anything in the show. In fact, far far far too effective. They are an enemy that is basically a caricature of something the viewer is only tangentially familiar with (in the same way they could ID the "cartel" and the "cartel" was not very well done either). And unlike the cartel or Gus, the WS have overtaken the actual story. They jump in to provide the tension and the "resolution" of the story now. What used to be carefully described scenes, motivations and experiences has been shoved aside by "And then the WS showed up and smacked everyone down. SUCK IT!" They did it to the prisoners they killed; they did it with the rival meth dealers; they did it with Hank and Walt. Everything that we had learned BEFORE is now replaced whole-sale with "And then the WS show up."

And to me... that's not a "chaotic descent into hell;" its a far more orderly and far far far too clean answer to the messiness of the characters. A "descent into chaos" would be if various organizations wee all vying for the prize and various groups popped up and various outcomes occurred. That's not what's happened here. Here - the WS have supplanted all. And at the expense of the actual characters we have been following for 4+ seasons. Before, Walt would do something to hide from Hank or get at Jesse or kill Gus and all vise versa. Now? When all these things are going down THE SAME "villain" shows up and meets out the SAME punishment. The WS and they kill everyone. The prisoners, the rival methers, the DEA. Just when things are piling up, they show up and kill everyone. That's not interesting- it's creating a new "Other" who grabs everyone and everything in their path and controls them all; the WS now makes it all about them and what they want counters all. And they suffer no consequences; even Gus had the cartel to deal with; Tuco had Hank; Hank had the DEA; the DEA had to deal with Jesse; Jesse had to deal with Walt and Walt had to deal with Gus and Tuco and Hank and Skylar and on and on and on. And every one of those characters had to make choices and sacrifice something to get something else. Health, love, life, Gale, a job, a career, a grandchild, parents etc etc etc.

And that drove the story.

Now? NOw... if the story crawls too closely to resolution OR if its too messy to live with OR if it would be better to just say "Hey, we need to bring this thing toa head..."

The WS show up and kill everyone.

[The Monkey]

Seems like the season 5a Heisenberg is gone, and we're getting more of Walter White again. When he saw that Hank was with Pinkman, he chose to turn himself in rather that let Hank come to harm. That was very un-Heisenberg-like and came as quite a surprise for me.

[mankytoes]

I could believe the firefight lasting as long as it did if Hank or Gomez fired first and started moving for cover immediately. It's easy to hit a stationary target when set up comfortably on a shooting range; it's much harder to hit a moving target shooting at you while your hands are shaking from the adrenaline.

The problem is that the nazis fired first. With a rifle. Centered on a stationary target standing out in the open. And unlike a lot of other movies/tv shows, he actually used the gunsights! (In contrast to Todd, who was firing vaguely in their direction; I doubt he would have hit anything from half the distance). Whoever that first Nazi shot at should have been hit and dropped immediately - even military-issue body armor with ceramic inserts won't stop a 5.56mm round at that range.

After the first shot is fired, then it's pandemonium, and it's perfectly believable that nobody got hit once it erupted. That's a surprisingly common outcome in firefights even among trained soldiers.

There's a reason why the M16A2 doesn't go full-auto; it's set at a 3-round burst because anything more tends to be a waste of ammo. Full auto is generally reserved for machine guns (like the M60 Walt eventually buys), which are (1) heavier, (2) typically mounted on bipods or tripods, (3) crew served, (4) used primarily for suppression fire, and (5) still intended to fire on controlled bursts instead of rock & roll.

Why does it matter? Because of the style of the show. Mike's suppressed pistol still sounded like an actual gunshot instead of the 'fwip fwip' hollywood silencer. When Hank killed Tuco, he went through PTSD; when he later got shot, he had to go through months of excruciating physical therapy just to get partial mobility back. Walt's cactus battery was actually made by the production crew.

If I were watching NCIS, then I wouldn't think

twice about the firefight. Because it's Breaking Bad, they spent five years building up (and earning) my high expectations.

Maybe it's different in America (I'm English), but that's pretty specialised knowledge. To most viewers, the most odd thing seemed to be no one getting hit in the main fire fight, the one bit you say was realistic. I get it would bug you, but I don't think it is bad writing when you need to know things like how likely a certain bullet from a certain distance is to go through a vest.

Does Saul ever have a bad scene? "Mum, you didn't say it" properly made me laugh, I think just because junior is still totally oblivious.

I think all dramatic scenes should be cut with shots of Saul looking bored, grumbling, etc.

Hank throwing the brain on the floor was one of the biggest wtf moments for me aswell.

[Jabronius Maximus]

Seems like the season 5a Heisenberg is gone, and we're getting more of Walter White again. When he saw that Hank was with Pinkman, he chose to turn himself in rather that let Hank come to harm. That was very un-Heisenberg-like and came as quite a surprise for me.

I wasn't surprised one bit. Throughout the entire show, Walt has drawn a clear line that he will not allow his family to come to harm, going as far as poisoning a kid to ensure that. Yesterday was no different.

[7V3N]

Hank dies. Marie soon realizes something happened (or in a twist, Walt tells her). Walt gives them Jesse to cook the one batch. Walt then needs a new vacuum. Jesse is now being held as a hostage cook past his one batch. Walt comes after him.

[mankytoes]

Edit: for the record I like the introduction of the Nazi's (as opposed to say having the cartel reappear.) Say what you will about the tenants of national socialism, at least it's an ethos.

Shut the fuck up.

[TalalOfDorne]

Hank and Gomez :crying: .

The Hule scene was pretty funny IMO. I dont know why though.

[Wise Fool]

I don't think the white supremacists are too powerful or whatever, that they're unfairly becoming the dominant force. They should be: Heisenberg is out of the game. The Cartels are out of the game. And really, it was inevitable that sooner or later, a man like Walt is going to be in too deep and unable to simply lie, manipulate, and cow hardened criminals to his will. And that's all that's happened. Reality has taken over. The interesting, likable, relatable characters are NOT the dominant force in the world of organized drug trafficking and murder. That people are surprised that this has happened and disappointed shows that they have gotten caught up in the Heisenberg myth, bought into the aura of the criminal mastermind.

But they should feel vindicated. Walt's gonna come back with a machine gun and have a rambo moment or two. What you wanted right?

[Alex.]

One thing I am glad about: Hank and Gomes didn't fucking flinch. Bona fide heroes, both of them. Not a moment of hesitation before they started blasting back. No bullshit, just massive brass balls.

If the cold opening next week is an upwards spiralling shot of Hank lying on the floor with his brains outside of his head in a mockery of Jesse in the camera phone earlier in the episode I may put my fist through the tele.

The phone call to Marie was torturous enough. I don't need a shot of vultures flying around a bullet ridden 4x4 in the desert on top of that. Jesse's meth slavery is surely nailed on now because Hank is 100% dead. If he's not dead then he has to kill all the Nazi's, which obviously cannot happen.

[BaseBornBastard]

Is there any chance at all that a ceasefire could be called mid-shootout, and the nazis lay off on the condition that Hank hands over Walt?

[Alex.]

The first thing Hank and Gomes would do is gather up the fucking army or something and blow up the Aryan Nation headquarters though, surely.

Hank is dead.

[BaseBornBastard]

Repost from the last thread.

Edit: for the record I like the introduction of the Nazi's (as opposed to say having the cartel reappear.) Say what you will about the tenants of national socialism, at least it's an ethos.

How is that a good thing? It's a completely fucked up ethos. Am I misinterpreting you, or are you defending nazism?